Obama's War Surge

  On 12/1/2009 at 11:40 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

you shouldnt invade a country without a decent/realistic exit strategy, if at all ever. what a fucking mess

who ever said the US wants an exit strategy? We have 60,000 troops till stationed in Germany, we are still in Japan. It seems like we don't want to leave when we invade a country

  On 12/1/2009 at 11:54 PM, LOL Alzado said:

how would a criminal investigation work? what if countries such as afghanistan, yemen and Rwanda refused to extradite terrorists? then what? you really think they would have handed people over to us?

 

so if they refuse to extradite, we would face the choice of going in and getting him or being embarrassed on the world stage. invasion was the right move. we could have really hit them hard had we done it right.

a criminal investigation would work just like any other criminal investigation in the confines of our justice system. I just told you Afghanistan did not refuse to extradite terrorists, they offered to if we provided them with evidence. Evidence which we did not provide.

I also think you are falling into a logic trap of conflating the people who actually committed the 9/11 attacks with anybody who uses 'terrorism' to achieve their goals. Who gives a shit if Yemen and Rwanda don't hand over 'terrorists' ? Now if those people actually committed crimes and we can prove it damn right i want Yemen And Rwanda to extradite them, Unfortunately this blanket usage of the term 'terrorist' makes these discussions tricky and veers them away from actual lawful principles. If you think it's moral and right to go after countries because our leaders intuitively know they harbor terrorists or have terrorists leaders, i think you should read 1984

just seems pretty brash and psychopathic to be like 'we know who really did it, we are sure of it we dont need any investigation because we know so lets fucking invade em'

you don't think the US is already embarrassed on the world stage?

but i guess Bush can be thanked for this mindset still existing when Obama is in office

'we make no distinction between those who are terrorists and those who harbor them'

aka Invade anybody without reason card, no evidence we know you are harboring terrorists, etc, rinse repeat

it seems pretty naive to believe that the Taliban would have handed anyone over. seriously, if you believe that, you're a little crazy.

  On 12/2/2009 at 12:03 AM, LOL Alzado said:

it seems pretty naive to believe that the Taliban would have handed anyone over. seriously, if you believe that, you're a little crazy.

yes i guess believing that evidence good enough to go to war but not good enough to go to court makes one pretty sane, funny thing

unfortunately well never know because the US didn't give it anytime to play out, we wanted to get in there freakin fast! but not fast enough to catch Bin Laden or any important members of al queda thats right

to me the idea that its moral and just to invade a country that 'harbors terrorists' makes just as much sense as going after a country that possesses 'WMD' because if you break down what each of these mean they are very vague terms that can be applied to a lot of different things. China possesses nuclear arms, chemical weapons and bunker busting bombs on submarines, but since we have no intention of invading them right now we do not characterize their weapon stockpiles as 'WMDS'.

  On 12/2/2009 at 12:15 AM, idrn said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/29/osama-bin-laden-senate-report

every time i read articles like this i feel even crazier, because surely its crazy to believe our Government would let the man who carried out the deaths of 3,000 people get away?!?! IF the french newspapers La Figaro is to be believed most people i've shown this article too laugh out loud in disbelief. Bin Laden was visited in the hospital while in Dubai in 2001 by a CIA section chief http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/lefigaro.htm

America needs a new boodeyman since the downfall of the Soviets

  Quote

What's everyone's thoughts on this? Right move? Wrong move?

Wrong move

  Quote

I personally think he's already sold us out, and I no longer trust him. If he had balls, and lived up to his promises, he would have pulled us put of there.

I don't remember him ever making a promise of pulling out of Afghanistan. He made it pretty clear during the presidential debates that he would keep that war going. I'm surprised that anyone thought he would end this.

Al queade is everywhere. You can't invade everywhere. Work smarter not harder

Off topic, Awepittance are you British or American? I can't tell

Im guessin' Obama is most concerned about the NukEs in Pakistan getting into the wrong hands. Or, wronger hands

how did i win in 4 short pages? that's gotta be a record.

al-qaeda aren't based in afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter. we invade countries for resources and political/global power, not moral reasons. this whole war was complete bullshit to begin with, you're incredibly naive if you thought it was about anything else.

Didn't it start over invisible weapons of mass destruction, and is continuing for this invisible reason?

I have no idea btw, I know fuck all about it, I choose not to investigate such depressing matters.

i'm not really interested in debating whether it was a good idea to go in or not, because the fact is we did.

we completely removed a country's government. if we leave, anarchy will reign. we'll have another somalia, only with an even more potent mix of drug money and religious fanaticism, right in the middle of an already volatile region.

in other words, if it wasn't before we invaded, afghanistan will undoubetdly become a country run by terrorists and criminals if we leave now.

so quit bitching about obama on this one - he's being pragmatic. try to put your whiny, insulated, half-formed ideologies aside, and look at it practically.

snap

  On 12/2/2009 at 7:42 AM, abusivegeorge said:

Didn't it start over invisible weapons of mass destruction, and is continuing for this invisible reason?

 

I have no idea btw, I know fuck all about it, I choose not to investigate such depressing matters.

Money and oil and capitalists masquerading as bible-toting republicans aren't depressing matters, they're facts of life.

  On 12/2/2009 at 9:49 AM, OneToThirtySix said:

  On 12/2/2009 at 7:42 AM, abusivegeorge said:

Didn't it start over invisible weapons of mass destruction, and is continuing for this invisible reason?

 

I have no idea btw, I know fuck all about it, I choose not to investigate such depressing matters.

Money and oil and capitalists masquerading as bible-toting republicans aren't depressing matters, they're facts of life.

Which I choose not to indulge in becuase they depress me. Like this thread.

Even though I just did lol.

  On 12/2/2009 at 8:07 AM, Al Hounos said:

i'm not really interested in debating whether it was a good idea to go in or not, because the fact is we did.

we completely removed a country's government. if we leave, anarchy will reign. we'll have another somalia, only with an even more potent mix of drug money and religious fanaticism, right in the middle of an already volatile region.

 

in other words, if it wasn't before we invaded, afghanistan will undoubetdly become a country run by terrorists and criminals if we leave now.

 

so quit bitching about obama on this one - he's being pragmatic. try to put your whiny, insulated, half-formed ideologies aside, and look at it practically.

yeah, this seems like the right answer to me. i'm totally against wars, but i don't see how immediately pulling out would make anything better. i mean, sure, american lives and resources would be saved if we got the fuck out. but then afganistan would be slower to be restructured and afganis' lives would suck because of that.

I'd like to hear what the Afghans think we should do. Maybe I missed it, but have they said whether they want us to have continued intervention or what?

  On 12/2/2009 at 12:46 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 12/2/2009 at 8:07 AM, Al Hounos said:

i'm not really interested in debating whether it was a good idea to go in or not, because the fact is we did.

we completely removed a country's government. if we leave, anarchy will reign. we'll have another somalia, only with an even more potent mix of drug money and religious fanaticism, right in the middle of an already volatile region.

 

in other words, if it wasn't before we invaded, afghanistan will undoubetdly become a country run by terrorists and criminals if we leave now.

 

so quit bitching about obama on this one - he's being pragmatic. try to put your whiny, insulated, half-formed ideologies aside, and look at it practically.

 

yeah, this seems like the right answer to me. i'm totally against wars, but i don't see how immediately pulling out would make anything better. i mean, sure, american lives and resources would be saved if we got the fuck out. but then afganistan would be slower to be restructured and afganis' lives would suck because of that.

if only the country were this open-minded. i personally find it unbelievable that people feel the need to bash Obama because of what Bush went through. they are two different presidents. one created a mess with no exit strategy - seemingly designed to be dealt with by his successor - and now the successor gets the shit for it?

yeah, good luck, America. we are too selfih for our own good to even slightly understand pragmatism or anything other than capitalism. ok, done ranting for now.

  On 12/2/2009 at 8:07 AM, Al Hounos said:

i'm not really interested in debating whether it was a good idea to go in or not, because the fact is we did.

we completely removed a country's government. if we leave, anarchy will reign. we'll have another somalia, only with an even more potent mix of drug money and religious fanaticism, right in the middle of an already volatile region.

 

in other words, if it wasn't before we invaded, afghanistan will undoubetdly become a country run by terrorists and criminals if we leave now.

 

so quit bitching about obama on this one - he's being pragmatic. try to put your whiny, insulated, half-formed ideologies aside, and look at it practically.

NO, if we leave we will have a bunch of tribal leaders who have strong control of their respective peoples, and we'll have a return of the taliban to central government. Because we will have to negotiate the terms of the peace with them.

  On 12/1/2009 at 9:48 PM, Z_B_Z said:

wrong move. we should pull out but obamas turned out to be your average politician.

+1

(Broke Obummer)

i have learned not to put my faith in the systems and ideas of man.

political systems have been built to keep the minority rebellion from rising up.

we must create a new system based on Truth.

  On 12/1/2009 at 9:46 PM, Kcinsu said:

So tonight he is announcing that he will be sending 30,000 more troons to afghanistan.

 

What's everyone's thoughts on this? Right move? Wrong move?

Over there, over there, send the word, send the word over there . . .

i thought he said he was going to increase troop in afghaniston during the election?