Do you let pretentious assholes...

Was having this conversation recently with my girl. I found her perspective puzzling. She spoke about how sometimes it's hard for her to continue to enjoy things like music and films that she loved, once they catch on with mainstream audiences. I was kinda baffled as to how she would let the opinions of irrelevant people that had nothing to do with the creation of something she enjoyed and pick up on the surface noise of life in general, get in the way of her enjoyment over it.

My perspective has always been that when something is made, it's usually unmolested at the time of it's creation. Assuming the artist is unmoved by their own hype and sticking to what got them fans before they had any. Only when things I enjoy are regurgitated into newer forms by new people (classic movie remakes for example) that boil my blood. Not at the original creators of such things, but at the people who feel a need to expose audiences unaware of the original source to their own shitty interpretation of something that was already perfect as it was. The bottom line is, I can't slow down long enough to give a fuck about what somebody I don't care about thinks about something I enjoy.

So what do you think? Does it make it harder to enjoy things because you see a bunch of fuckin hipsters devoting a cult following to it? Or can you block them out and enjoy it for what it is?

No, I enjoy art based on my own reactions to it, whatever it may be (music, film, visual)....

the only thing that ruins art for me, sometimes, is learning more about the artist or meeting the artist, and finding out they are or were a dick (asshole, rude, megalomaniac, perverse)......

this makes me not like their art as much...

that would be the only outside factor that could ruin something for me, and enjoying said art with friends is always fun....

What you are talking about used to bug me a lot. Was a huge bother to me. But i just had to, "get over myself" and learn to just enjoy what it IS to me. And understand that just because i had a very personal relationship with a song, idea, movie, etc did not mean that I was the ONLY ONE that saw it THIS WAY and that made me awesome for some reason. NO it just made me close minded and arrogant and full of anger. Now i just consider pretty much anything or idea is anyone's to toy with and the fact that we can do that and recognize that we can come up with the same conclusion to something without having discussed it, makes humans pretty nifty beings. That said I'm by no means perfect and certainly still have friends that have very strong opinions, especially about music, buti just have to grit my teeth when they are going off. do my best to buffer or throw in some positive bits instead of argue, and then go make up my mind on my own later.

An example would be the song closer on the downward spiral. Grotesquely overplayed and everyone that has seen nine inch nails live has gotten to shout i want to fuck you like an animal at the same time as trent. BUt when its just me and my headphones listening to that song the sounds, melody, and depth of the composition and well placed timbres still impress me more than any other nine inch nails song.

doesnt bother me atall. then again russian/french impressionism and minimal techno are never exactly going to get primetime shows on radio1.

I agree with you, and would take it a step further. It doesn't even matter to me if the music/book/movie was unmolested at the time of creation.

For instance, a lot of people don't like Wagner's music, because it was probably inspired partly by his fascism and antisemitism.

Or some people don't like Kingsley Amis' books, because he was a nasty sexist, and that probably influenced his works.

All that matters to me is if I like the music/book. Wagner wrote good stuff, and Amis wrote entertaining books. If it turned out that Squarepusher didn't believe in his music and was just making it to make a quick buck, that wouldn't make it sound any different to me.

  On 12/14/2009 at 7:44 AM, Root5 said:

If it turned out that Squarepusher didn't believe in his music and was just making it to make a quick buck, that wouldn't make it sound any different to me.

yes! agreed,

also i just feel bad for people that don't appreciate Tchaikovsky. I guess i consider myself lucky to see every god created by humans and the whole range of human emotions reflected back at me when listening to his decadent compositions ;) Tchaikovsky has to be one of my biggest influences/infatuations...and talk about played out! Aside from the nutcracker there's swan lake, sleeping beauty, and not to mention the *ugh* 1812. You couldn't hold a gun to my head and make me unsee the brilliance i have seen in his work (and mozarts too).

  On 12/14/2009 at 6:46 AM, epsy said:

Was having this conversation recently with my girl. I found her perspective puzzling. She spoke about how sometimes it's hard for her to continue to enjoy things like music and films that she loved, once they catch on with mainstream audiences. I was kinda baffled as to how she would let the opinions of irrelevant people that had nothing to do with the creation of something she enjoyed and pick up on the surface noise of life in general, get in the way of her enjoyment over it.

 

 

 

So what do you think? Does it make it harder to enjoy things because you see a bunch of fuckin hipsters devoting a cult following to it? Or can you block them out and enjoy it for what it is?

What you are describing is a "scenester" and prior to the arrival of "hipsters", "scenesters" were the most hated people on the planet.

as for the question, who cares what other people like? I'm always happy to meet someone who likes music and is willing to keep an open mind. If they're hipsters or whatever, doesn't phase me, as I don't base my enjoyment of music based on other people's reactions.

I'll kill you if you like a song I tell you not to like.

Not really. But in some instances I try to stay away from the hype without knowing why. Like Burial was extremely hyped and I didn't bother giving it a listen until the whole hype died, not on purpose, but I just didn't. So a year or so after everyone stopped raving over Burial, I put on his releases and went "this is some good shit!".

I judge the work on its own merits, not from who it came from, and especially not from what other people said about it.

I used to have a snobby view on music when I was much younger. I held off getting Surfer Rosa when it was first released as I grew bored of the hype, I felt like people were muscling in on 'my' music, which is of course ridiculous. I grew out of that a long, long time ago though, now I just enjoy music and film for myself, and all well and good if other people like it. If not, so fucking what? I prefer to use up my time now enjoying what I like and finding new things rather than fretting about other people's opinions or what type of people hold them (unless things are recommended to me, that is). I still like to bitch on music or films that I hate or that annoy me though. And I agree on updating things that simply don't need it epsy, just one example is Assault On Precinct 13, an unnecessary affront on my precious formative film memories.

having said this, although it no longer matters cos hes long dead, i certainly wouldnt like to give wagner any money because he was a thoroughly unpleasant person through and through. a genius, yes, but horrendous.

i agree OP. and most of the people on this forum have that problem... judging things based on what other people think of them... its quite sad :(

no one matters, but it can sometimes becomes a very lonely and dark place, always really finding music most enjoyable when you are by yourself/alone in your bedroom. cause even when you try and play similar stuff around friends, you hear it differently cause your thinking from outside, your thinking collectively... and then you start to re-evaluate the music you've been listening to, wondering if its really not as good as you think and that you are just so wrapped up with yourself that you sub-consciously just couldn't enjoy something thats deemed "good" by these same people... the people that you enjoy being around, enjoy their personalities, their opinions, outlooks, accomplishments... but there's always this one that always keeps the world from disfiguring and deforming... this alien abstract difference... this barrier. and you can't do anything. there's no words or action that can make them understand. you can drive across the country, fly across the world, go to the top of a mountain, to the deepest parts of the ocean... you will never escape this fact. but thats okay, because no one matters except the artists that create the sonic vibrations that is your "shit" so just sit the fuck back, blast the amp, and escape. life's too short to waste time and energy asking "why?"

good post

i am a pretentious cunt.

and i love it.

and those who love me, know it.

and those who hate me, know it.

now cut to a scene from Eraserhead, and be done with it.

i listen to whatever i want to. if that means confield one day and sweet child of mine the next, then so be it.

i've had conversations with people about animal collective, and how they hate the fact that they've become mainstream, but that only annoys me cos it's harder to get their gig tickets these days cos of the demand...

if someone backs up their opinion with a decent point then i tend to see their point which affects the way i hear things or view things which is why i dont like to read critique of something before hearing or watching it and forming my own opinion first. even after that i can be impressionable if it's something i like. on the other hand, if i dont like something there is no convincing me that it's good. i hate with confidence and conviction.

Yeah I could see this effecting people big time. I think it effects everyone in some way, you'd be crazy if it didnt. Its like listening to charles manson without think about WHO is actually singing.

Works in many ways. The OP said the girl finds it hard to listen to stuff after it goes mainstream. But you could have people hating stuff after its no longer in the limelight. I try to judge stuff on whats in front of me but if you know something about the artist its hard not to let their personality etc. taint the work. Like Joy Division, had he not have killed himself would his lyrics have been so striking.

The other thing is that I know of people who like music and movies etc. just cause they know most other people wont. Like when I watched Eraserhead the other week. I though it was pretentious crap, being weird just for weirdness' sake, but other people said it was amasing. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

not at all. i care not for the opinions of others as to my musical tastes or my actions generally.

I dont like it when musicians I like become famous, purely because I like watching music with a pint in a bar and cant be doing with massive halls.

  On 12/14/2009 at 7:51 AM, Brandi_B said:

  On 12/14/2009 at 7:44 AM, Root5 said:

If it turned out that Squarepusher didn't believe in his music and was just making it to make a quick buck, that wouldn't make it sound any different to me.

 

yes! agreed,

 

also i just feel bad for people that don't appreciate Tchaikovsky. I guess i consider myself lucky to see every god created by humans and the whole range of human emotions reflected back at me when listening to his decadent compositions ;) Tchaikovsky has to be one of my biggest influences/infatuations...and talk about played out! Aside from the nutcracker there's swan lake, sleeping beauty, and not to mention the *ugh* 1812. You couldn't hold a gun to my head and make me unsee the brilliance i have seen in his work (and mozarts too).

Cool point, I hadn't thought of that with Tchaikovsky. But I've met people who didn't like Rachmaninoff and Liszt because they dislike the easily accessible melodies. They think something cannot be accessible without sacrificing depth. A thoroughly silly way to look at music.

i generally hate other people so if i have to go to a crowded show, it's just annoying.

like the first time i saw explosions in the sky, and grizzly bear yellow house tour, there were maybe 100-200 people there, not too many. i can't really get too excited about big shows, it just means big drunken crowds of idiots pushing themselves around. that's just when bands become popular though, i don't care what any pretentious asshole says about music i listen to. it's the whole music is subjective argument, everyone likes different shit, usually what happened to be popular when they were growing up.

When I was a rebellious youth I often thought the same way as your girl, but as I grew up I stopped giving a shit.

i hate hype surrounding movies sometimes. when i'm being told by a few people "you've got to see this movie", i never watch it. don't know why.