Ben Stein

This isn't a response to anything anyone's said in this thread as such, but reading some of the posts have provoked these thoughts (not troons posts of course, his are about as thought provoking as a cheese grater).

I've always equated the aggressive 'marketing' of both organized religion and atheism towards each other (ie, banners on buses saying "THERE IS NO GOD" and things like that) to overly flamboyant homosexuals and overly masculine blokey blokes. Like, both are making some loud, annoying statement, but not realising how they're ultimately just noise that I'm not sure a sensible person really cares about. It's hard to define, but they seem to be making some sort of overblown point, perhaps because they've got nothing else going on in their lives?

I believe in something George Carlin said in his bit about the ten commandments, "Thy shall keep thy religion to thyself". It's a small mention, but I think it's a very important point that people shouldn't be forced to believe things, it just doesn't really fit with our chaotic nature.

In some ways I believe the reason the world seems to be getting more hostile is because there's an increased suggestion (due to people being more connected with the likes of the internet and all) that we need to be a part of something. Like the Columbine guys were bullied and whatnot for being weird, but they weren't really weird, just they didn't fit in at all with what is supposed to be normal. So they snapped and started shooting shit up. That's probably a weak example, but you see my point I hope. Anybody ever think our brains are sometimes at odds with our more primal nature?

I'm getting way off my point here, but I think the world just needs tolerance. We're running extremely short on it in general, which is a shame because what with there being SO MANY different aspects to life and ways of living, you need to have the ability to step back and observe before making a judgement on what can be considered right for you, without being told by somebody who "knows better". Which is kind of my long winded way of saying fuck you to Ben Stein and his not-so-subtle promotion of his shit, narrow minded views.

This is probably my worst, most unfocused post ever. Let's go nuke some ragheads.

lol.

I think the reason the world is possibly getting more hostile is humans are ungrateful petty cunts who, when they have most of their base needs taken care of, have to pick fights over stem cells and celebrities because they have nothing better to do with themselves. Also feeding into it is I suspect many people feel a vague but pressing threat from the new world order of multinational corporations and the uber-wealthy, as well they should, but they have no idea what to do about it so they sink further in to torpor and obesity. Who knows. All I know is most of our higher thought processes, despite giving us wonders like philosophy, medicine, and music, are often largely wanking about. When I think of all the useless stuff I spent my time reading and thinking about as an undergrad...I suspect this is just Ben Stein's way of making a pass at Anne Coulter.

  On 12/29/2009 at 11:30 AM, lumpenprol said:

lol.

 

I think the reason the world is possibly getting more hostile is humans are ungrateful petty cunts who, when they have most of their base needs taken care of, have to pick fights over stem cells and celebrities because they have nothing better to do with themselves.

Yep, my first point was kind of hovering around that notion.

I don't know. My perspective on humanity is getting bleaker by the day and I don't know what's caused it. Maybe it's just a natural reaction after how shit a year it's been, or maybe I'm just getting older and more pessimistic about this shithole world due to realising just how shit it is?

I mean, I recognise that there is real beauty in the world. Often in the most chaotic things, but who the fuck talks about things that are good? LOSERS, that's who. What's cool is talking about things that suck and are shit!

a lot of people do keep their religion to themselves. is that what christianity is about though? look up the great commission, or the parable of the talents. who gives a crap what george carlin said? no one's forcing anything by talking or typing, just ignore the post or the user.

it is one thing to be willing to put yourself out there on a message board where, if you kill your rep by preaching a bit, so what? look at this guy. i think that deserves a nod, even if you don't believe one bit of it.

if you believe as a christian does, then you also know how high the stakes are. it is no price to pay to have people dislike you, or even hurt or kill you, because of the message you need to give.

Luke 21:12-18 (New International Version)

12"But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you. They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13This will result in your being witnesses to them. 14But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17All men will hate you because of me. 18But not a hair of your head will perish.

Revelation 11:7-11 (Amplified Bible)

7But when they have finished their testimony and their evidence is all in, the beast (monster) that comes up out of the Abyss (bottomless pit) will wage war on them, and conquer them and kill them.(A)

8And their dead bodies [will lie exposed] in the open street ([a]a public square) of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called [by the mystical and allegorical names of] Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.(B)

9For three and a half days men from the races and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and will not allow them to be put in a tomb.

10And those who dwell on the earth will gloat and exult over them and rejoice exceedingly, taking their ease and sending presents [in congratulation] to one another, because these two prophets had been such a vexation and trouble and torment to all the dwellers on the earth.

11But after three and a half days, by God's gift the breath of life again entered into them, and they rose up on their feet, and great dread and terror fell on those who watched them.©

Um.. I wasn't feeling evangelised by any post. Just wanted to chime in with some thoughts of my own.

I'm fully aware that Christians are meant to spread the word of god... I just don't agree.

It's funny how the first 3 paragraphs of that Stein essay are completely fine, and then he flies off the rails.

Sorry to hear your perspective on humanity has soured. When I dislike people it's usually on days when I feel everyone is better off than I am. Funny how that works ;-)

I have a Canadian friend who's an extremely devout Catholic, well... within her own terms I suppose. For example, sex before marriage is a-ok with her it seems. But other than that slight hypocrisy she's very devout, though I would never call her out on being a bad christian. She was once telling me that when she has kids she's going to make sure they're raised as strict Catholics. I felt kind of depressed by this. Not because they'd be Catholic, but because they wouldn't really have a choice on what they would like to believe in their life. No options would be given to them growing up or anything. Sucks. Not sure that's healthy.

  On 12/29/2009 at 11:54 AM, lumpenprol said:

Sorry to hear your perspective on humanity has soured. When I dislike people it's usually on days when I feel everyone is better off than I am. Funny how that works ;-)

Hah! Well, it's more a case of when I hear about a massive injustice in the world I lament the fact that things could be so much better.

I don't get depressed about humanity, I just view it as a blunderous idiot constantly falling down manholes.

  On 12/29/2009 at 11:45 AM, glasse said:

look at this guy. i think that deserves a nod, even if you don't believe one bit of it.

 

I read this, inspirational and all. But I kind of feel at this point it might be a better idea to cut North Korea off with a massive saw, kick it away a bit, then slide a large sheet of metal underneath it and just flip it over.

  On 12/29/2009 at 11:57 AM, Obel said:

I felt kind of depressed by this. Not because they'd be Catholic, but because they wouldn't really have a choice on what they would like to believe in their life. No options would be given to them growing up or anything. Sucks. Not sure that's healthy.

well, catholic boys are useless, but "catholic schoolgirls rule!" So if she has daughters there'll be a silver lining for some bold fellow...

Spocks son didnt commit suicide, if he cant get a fact right why would I believe anything he has to say on concepts.

  On 12/29/2009 at 6:16 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

an atheist would literally, be anti-theist...that's about as far as i can take that idea.

  On 12/29/2009 at 6:20 AM, nene multiple assgasms said:

an atheist is someone who doesn't believe that gods exist.

  On 12/29/2009 at 6:23 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

how is that not what i just said/

There is a difference between being "anti", and simply not believing... The latter is generally a more passive state, while the former shows some degree of intention. If that makes any sense...?

right, a lot of people don't see the difference between believing there is no god and not believing there is a god. the former is atheism, the latter agnostic, at least that's how i understand it.

anyone who knows anything about science knows better than to truly believe anything. i can easily assert that we live in the matrix and no one can prove or disprove said assertion. does this give it academic merit? no, this is untestable and is useless in the arena of science. that is the key difference between believing something based on science or faith. one can be supported by reproducing and predicting the results, the other is some magic shit no one will ever be able to prove/disprove.

oh and ben stein is still a dbag

agnosticism is a form of atheism.

is it?

agnostics don't believe in god. that makes them atheists.

Agnostics don't "believe" one way or the other - they're just reserving their opinion until further evidence is discovered.

  On 12/29/2009 at 5:56 PM, SecondaryCell said:

Agnostics don't "believe" one way or the other - they're just reserving their opinion until further evidence is discovered.

which means they don't believe in god.

This thread is like walking into a fart closet but worse.

an agnostic is just an atheist who has put some thought in the mater.

  On 12/29/2009 at 5:58 PM, nene multiple assgasms said:

  On 12/29/2009 at 5:56 PM, SecondaryCell said:

Agnostics don't "believe" one way or the other - they're just reserving their opinion until further evidence is discovered.

 

which means they don't believe in god.

right, but agnostics don't actually know if it's true or not. Atheists act like it's a fact that there is no god. which is absurd, because they can't prove it

and then agnostics are just waiting for the proof

  On 12/29/2009 at 6:05 PM, Calx Sherbet said:

  On 12/29/2009 at 5:58 PM, nene multiple assgasms said:

  On 12/29/2009 at 5:56 PM, SecondaryCell said:

Agnostics don't "believe" one way or the other - they're just reserving their opinion until further evidence is discovered.

 

which means they don't believe in god.

 

right, but agnostics don't actually know if it's true or not. Atheists act like it's a fact that there is no god. which is absurd, because they can't prove it

 

and then agnostics are just waiting for the proof

what does it mean to believe that something doesn't exist?

depends on what the something is

it means that you believe it doesn't exists. i believe that your mom doesn't not exists is different than i do not believe your mom exists, because you can't infer that i believe anything from that statement.

i do not believe your toes are green. -absence of assertion

i believe your toes are not green. -assertion

do you understand now?

Also, on the subject of the downward spiral of the world, modern culture, humanity, etc. - I think in part this is due to mankind having to come to terms with mass transportation, mass communication, the internet, Youtube and so on.

When we began to move out of the age of the small village, where everyone knew each other personally and had to look their neighbor in the eye and shake his hand - that is when the growing pains started. We have not yet gotten used to the distance and disassociation that are side effects of things such as the internet.

Of course there are many good things about the shrinking of the world - through the power of the internet I now know that ordinary people in Russia for example, are just like me and not the evil monsters that my government portrayed them as in the 50's and 60's. We had no way to know any different back then.

However, it's easy to see the negatives that come with the anonymity of mass communication. This forum is a classic example where many can hide behind their screen names and reduce their intellect to the most primitive and animalistic levels.

It's hard to care as much when you can't hear, see or feel what the person on the receiving end of your actions is going through.