Who uses Pro Tools?

So does anyone actually use Pro Tools?

  On 1/9/2010 at 1:16 AM, Spittal said:

So does anyone actually use Pro Tools?

lol

If I neveruse protools again I'll be a happy dude. It's been about 4 years since I've touched it!

let's talk about how shit digital performer is now

  On 1/9/2010 at 11:01 PM, hahathhat said:

let's talk about how shit digital performer is now

Digital Performer...

WHAT A JOKE!?

right guys?

i like how digital performer's midi event editor makes me feel like i'm writing a program in assembly language

anybody do midi sequencing in pro tools?

  On 1/11/2010 at 9:58 PM, bossman said:

anybody do midi sequencing in pro tools?

I'd rather vomit.

After my short exposure to DP I never want to have to look at that infernal interface again.

However, since Rob and Sean of Autechre have disclosed it to be their primary DAW I can't help but have a certain amount of respect for both the program and those talented bastards for successfully making some of the most complicated music I've ever heard with it.

As for the topic, the studios I'm working in these days all use Pro Tools so I have to be versed in it. I like mixing in it once all of the material is completed and I no longer have to create additional sounds. Otherwise, I would never use Pro Tools primarily because of it's shitty MIDI and automation capabilities, among other things. I do all of my composition and personal recording within Logic these days.

the first prog I used for music was acid so pro tools feels like a natural compositional tool to me. but I would never pay for it. does anyone know if protools free can work on mac os x? I am in the mood to randomly copy and paste shit and somehow ableton has trouble with that.

  On 1/13/2010 at 2:14 AM, spraaaa said:

the first prog I used for music was acid so pro tools feels like a natural compositional tool to me. but I would never pay for it. does anyone know if protools free can work on mac os x? I am in the mood to randomly copy and paste shit and somehow ableton has trouble with that.

Sorry bro, you HAVE to have Pro Tools hardware plugged in to work the program... there is no work around.

The cheapest solution is the M-box 2 Micro... About 300 bones all said I told I thing.

I have to use pro tools at work every day, and I like it a lot.

for recording bands, its great, for composition, not so much. At home I use Logic.

I'm not in love with Digi as a company, however.

To those talking about how expensive an hd system is and suggesting cubase does the same for much less remember this.

A pro tools HD system is the whole package, a collection of high end soundcards with multiple inputs/outputs and very good (though not the best) A/D D/A converters. it is also the equivalent of adding DSP card's, not just for plugins but for the whole audio recording process, to your computer.

To get cubase to do 'the same' as what pro tools HD was designed to do requires spending thousands on killer interfaces and UAD card style things, and even then you can't get a UAD card that powers your DAW as well. It allows 0 latency monitoring controllable entirely within the program (the only DAW that does this) and it doesn't matter what your computer is, pro tools will run strong and stable, generally.

So its not the same, for composition in the box cubase/logic does the same job, probably more, for a lot less. But if you want to record bands very well then its a complete studio 'brain' that is very easy to work on, very stable and very high end 'sounding'. if that notion doesn't attract you then pro tools HD is not for you.

That said, computers are getting more powerful and starting to get to the stage where pro tools isn't worth the high cost even for all its benefits. Its coming down in price a lot. My boss bought his first pro tools system for £35'000, when he built our studio the same cost him £19'000, now we just fitted out studio 2 with a similar system for £6'000. Still probably not cheap enough though, and digidesign look to be phasing out card based DSP with there next line of interfaces.

Its a given that most people don't need a pro tools HD system, its on the level of big studio gear, the modern day equivalent to a studer a827 tape machine ($40'000).

I love the program though, editing is a breeze, still has some things over logic, not features but general ease of use, though 9 has helped this a bit. It still needs better take-comping features though!

  On 1/13/2010 at 4:14 AM, welcome to the machine said:

That said, computers are getting more powerful and starting to get to the stage where pro tools isn't worth the high cost even for all its benefits.

exactly... that's the point... they got away with selling less-than-stellar interfaces for outrageous prices due to the very capable DSP acceleration your'e discussing here. the point being, it's just not necessary anymore. you don't UAD cards and TC powercores as much as you used to. even the "low end" mac pro these days can handle far more than most typical band recording sessions require. and as far as interfaces go, even if you HAVE an HD system, there are better, cheaper AD/DA solutions than what digi offers.

  On 1/13/2010 at 4:14 AM, welcome to the machine said:

Its a given that most people don't need a pro tools HD system, its on the level of big studio gear, the modern day equivalent to a studer a827 tape machine ($40'000).

i'd disagree with this comment too. there's no such thing as "big studio gear" anymore. that's why most of the "big studios" (especially those here in LA) are disappearing. the only thing purpose-built facilities offer over a home studio are large-scale acoustically treated tracking rooms. people are making STELLAR sounding recordings in their bedrooms and livingrooms, and with a bit of cash, one can turn an unused garage or basement into something truly amazing for tracking and / or mixing.

you're right... PT is still the "choice of the pros" when they ARE in a big studio, but that's largely due to the fact that it's so deeply entrenched in the industry. i fully expect that to change if they don't drastically alter their business model. the next generation of large-scale producers (whatever that ends up meaning) are cutting their teeth on fully-tricked-out DAWs like Logic and Cubase and even FL... they're not going to want to switch to something that they've never used because the "beginner" versions are so crippled.

  On 1/13/2010 at 5:04 AM, maus said:

there's no such thing as "big studio gear" anymore. that's why most of the "big studios" (especially those here in LA) are disappearing. the only thing purpose-built facilities offer over a home studio are large-scale acoustically treated tracking rooms. people are making STELLAR sounding recordings in their bedrooms and livingrooms, and with a bit of cash, one can turn an unused garage or basement into something truly amazing for tracking and / or mixing.

 

you're right... PT is still the "choice of the pros" when they ARE in a big studio, but that's largely due to the fact that it's so deeply entrenched in the industry. i fully expect that to change if they don't drastically alter their business model. the next generation of large-scale producers (whatever that ends up meaning) are cutting their teeth on fully-tricked-out DAWs like Logic and Cubase and even FL... they're not going to want to switch to something that they've never used because the "beginner" versions are so crippled.

spot on

  On 1/13/2010 at 5:04 AM, maus said:

  On 1/13/2010 at 4:14 AM, welcome to the machine said:

That said, computers are getting more powerful and starting to get to the stage where pro tools isn't worth the high cost even for all its benefits.

 

exactly... that's the point... they got away with selling less-than-stellar interfaces for outrageous prices due to the very capable DSP acceleration your'e discussing here. the point being, it's just not necessary anymore. you don't UAD cards and TC powercores as much as you used to. even the "low end" mac pro these days can handle far more than most typical band recording sessions require. and as far as interfaces go, even if you HAVE an HD system, there are better, cheaper AD/DA solutions than what digi offers.

 

  On 1/13/2010 at 4:14 AM, welcome to the machine said:

Its a given that most people don't need a pro tools HD system, its on the level of big studio gear, the modern day equivalent to a studer a827 tape machine ($40'000).

 

i'd disagree with this comment too. there's no such thing as "big studio gear" anymore. that's why most of the "big studios" (especially those here in LA) are disappearing. the only thing purpose-built facilities offer over a home studio are large-scale acoustically treated tracking rooms. people are making STELLAR sounding recordings in their bedrooms and livingrooms, and with a bit of cash, one can turn an unused garage or basement into something truly amazing for tracking and / or mixing.

 

you're right... PT is still the "choice of the pros" when they ARE in a big studio, but that's largely due to the fact that it's so deeply entrenched in the industry. i fully expect that to change if they don't drastically alter their business model. the next generation of large-scale producers (whatever that ends up meaning) are cutting their teeth on fully-tricked-out DAWs like Logic and Cubase and even FL... they're not going to want to switch to something that they've never used because the "beginner" versions are so crippled.

cool, well the first point is not a disagreement! I completely agree, thats why I use logic and native processing at home, its a no-brainer. I wasn't arguing for why pro tools is great, far from it, more arguing against the common misunderstanding of what it IS.

Your second point is very valid too, but big studios still have something to offer. The big studios are dissapearing because of a number of things, not least the sheer cost of running them in the climate where the music industry is on its knees and world economy is pretty bad as well! My point was that a pro tools HD super expensive system is and has only ever really been the territory of big audio recording proffesionals/studios, and bashing it as a system when you are not considering this is missing the point a bit.

Its NEVER been an great option for small production studios and bedroom musicians, thats my point, and as we both mentioned earlier its getting even LESS of a good option for big studios as well! That sort of system is certainly on the way out.

As for the point about the validity of big studios, I know what you mean, but when you want to record drums and they need to sound huge you (often, not always) need a great room (as you have already mentioned), LOTS of mics, enough great preamps to amp all the mics, enough great inputs to convert all those signals etc etc. Then you add the sway of going through an array of great compressors, eq's real reverbs etc and the cost to get anything LIKE that result at home gets astronomical.

I'm not saying the sound you get from all this gear is better CREATIVELY than the home studio indie production, I've done plenty of them in my time and I love how they sound too! But if you want your band to sound like radiohead you need gear, you need choices, a great monitoring system, great headphone system blah blah blah.

when you look at the cost of ONE really great preamp on the level of recording a band like that it starts to become un-obtainable for pretty much every studio or indiviual APART from the BIG studios that are expected to have all of this gear and more as a matter of course!

i think its a good thing that the excess of the 80's and 90's is dying out, there were far to many huge budget studios anyway full of people wanting to cash in, now it getting a bit smaller and studios work harder for the fewer artists coming through the door, but there is definately still a need for them!

LA had SUCH an abundance of studios that its no surprise that there are more closing in that area! budgets are tight! you can get abbey road for £300 a day these days on downtime! crazy..

So I think the notion of 'big studio gear' still exists, whether its pro tools HD, a rack of apogee converters, a studer 24 track (which we still use a LOT) or a RADAR system. Though there are less now, the need for at least enough big studios to serve the few big budget bands that are around still keeps the best ones open! And if they all close we loose a big 'sound' that music can have, which can never be a good thing, whether you prefer the lo-fi indie recording sound or not!