headphones

Yep, that's what everyone always says. I tried them every which way, for like 3 months. Couldn't get a sound I liked. Loved the isolation though.

  On 2/10/2010 at 3:20 PM, Candiru said:

I have Sennheiser HD 555's and they are sex for my ears.

Fuck yeah I have a pair of these and love them to bits!

  On 2/10/2010 at 8:53 PM, Scrypt said:

Ascdi:

 

I disagree with you on certain points and will explain why, but I don't want to be obnoxious about it. If I sound emphatic, it's only because I've been thinking about this for decades (as you might have done as well, for all I know).

 

Yes, the Grado recommendation is wrong -- but only because this person wants closed and inconspicuous headphones under $100, and nothing by Grado that's decent goes for that little. Grados are also wrong subjectively (i.e., in your and my opinion) because they tend to color the sound. But the same is true of many of the Sennheisers people recommend, including some of the most respected and timeless models (HD-580, 600, 650).

 

Also: I'd never recommend SR-80s for anything. I (personally) have to move to the RS series for Grados to make sense in a real mixing situation.

 

On the other hand, it's a mistake to always equate music-making with mixing. I've been to at least four studios in New York in which the studio rooms were filled with SR-125s. Live musicians (drummers, guitarists) often like the sound, and Grados tend to be good for that situation, where energy is as important as accuracy (SR-125s are fairly detailed in that situation). BTW: I've never heard anyone else describe Grados as "laid-back" -- especially in relation to Sennheisers. Most find Grados misleadingly forward, the exception being the GS-1000. Perhaps the SR-80s only seemed that way because they lacked the highs of the SR-125s (which, of course, some audiophiles consider "too bright").

 

Re your comments about the ER-6i: I see two possible reasons for your findings.

 

(1) You used the original ER6 rather than the ER-6i, for which the tips were inadequate and bass was affected. However, the high range was definitely reference level. I sent mine back for the simple reason that boosted highs are what kill people's hearing in subways.

 

The natural tendency is to turn up the volume because the bass is lacking. This also turns up the high frequencies, which people tend not to notice. Extended exposure to loud highs is a frequent cause of tinnitus. The ER-6i has slightly relaxed highs, which is good, because in common situations in which isolating earphones are used (such as in cafes), people tend to turn up the volume, which, again, will prevent accurate mixes in the long run (E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E!).

 

(2) Are you forgetting that the initial question concerned mobile use and noisy environments? Name one respected musician who mixes under those conditions!

 

(2) You're a basshead and don't even realize it. People often equate good sound with exaggerated bass -- even reasonably tasteful, slightly exaggerated bass. In fact, a flat frequency range is the best for making music no matter how unexciting it sounds.

 

One reason I suspect this is because you advocate using Sony MDR-V700DJ, which a lot of DJs like but which are laughed at (no offense) by nearly every engineer I know. Those phones muddy things up and never deliver the flatness engineers need.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong to like your 700s and use them. I'm not imploring you to stop -- esp. since they inspire you (or at least don't interfere with your inspiration) -- or that your music is somehow lacking just because you use them. I'm only saying you're being inconsistent speaking of neutrality and matching common listening conditions/systems while scorning high-end Grados and promoting MDR-700DJs. I agree that Sony makes really useful average-quality reference headphones. But in my view, the V700DJ isn't one of them. And spec'd frequency range-emphasis is never the full story.

 

Because I make most of my living arranging, composing and playing keyboards in studios in New York (I made a living solely as a musician until recently, when I decided to think like Charles Ives), I'm in a unique position to see what my coworkers use. Without a doubt, the two most common headphones are the Sony MDR-7506 (called the MDR-V6 in the early 90s) and AKG 501s. Occasionally, I see Grados; rarely, Sennheisers (usually on the head of a studio owner). If I played classical music for a living (instead of at home), perhaps I'd see more Senns.

 

People routinely complain about a lack of bass with the 7506. Yet, in the mid-90s, I'd come in at the beginning of a session and find the best engineers reviewing tracks with those same headphones: turning the volume down so as not to be tricked into liking a sound by the ear's natural attenuator (which kicks in at high volumes, which is why we see idiots getting excited in the rehearsal studios we pass: loudness in the room creates the illusion of good sound, which is also why La Monte Young went astray), looking for dropouts, hum, weak part sounds, audible bad punches, empty areas of the frequency range, questionable performances, etc. Audiophiles would have laughed at those headphones or, worse, arrogantly suggested that the music recorded by said engineers was worse because of their listening equipment. All of that is backseat fanboy nonsense.

 

You're onto something when you talk about ideal headphones being the ones that translate to a number of different work situations, which is why no one should mix in a crowded noisy room wearing isolating earphones. However, lots of us should record tangents, roughs and basic ideas that way! We should sing out ideas in crappy hotel rooms and lobbies and scribble on music paper and plug in makeshift systems at claustrophobic family get-togethers. The illusion of escape opens doorways in artists' heads.

 

I agree with you; that's why it's good to listen under different circumstances and with different headphones and speakers. Mixing in studios, everyone listens on the small and large monitors; we're careful to listen at low volumes as well as loud ones; we go into the lounge during breaks to order bad takeout and check final versions on crappy consumer pieces of shit. And we make sure said mixes sound good on lush expensive kit because we part of the reason we make music is to revel in it under the best conditions.

 

But that's only part of the reason.

 

I've found Etymotics to be particularly good for checking basic tracks because I hate being fooled by grandeur. People who crave a huge soundstage will always hate Etys, as every pair I've ever tried has none. However, I personally think in terms of string arrangements, synths and sampled parts because that's my job; I particularly like counterpoint and use it at every excuse. Details are what matter to me personally and I can hear them using Etys. I daresay certain kinds of electronic music could be mixed on them -- lots of tracks by Benge, for example. (Stephen Betke would have a harder time!)

 

Besides which, the OP wants to spend under a hundred dollars. As far as I ken, Ken, the only true reference phones at that price point are all full-sized.

 

  On 2/10/2010 at 3:55 PM, Ascdi said:

I must disagree with the Grado and Etymotic recommendations in this thread. . . . Forgot to type "music making" a few more times. Music making, music making

Scrypt!?!? The head-fi scrypt? Nice!

i just noticed you were asking for ear buds. k701s are definitely not what you wanna wear in public as they kind of resemble mini toilet bowls and are open-air so everybody would be hearing your music. plus they really need a decent amplifier

don't know much about ear-buds other then i had a nice pair from Shure that got clipped with a dumbbell way back when

I would suggest taking Scrypt's advice as he seems to know his stuff, or just visit head-fi for recommendations from audiophiles

There are plenty of non audiophiles on head-fi. Well one at least.

the new Sennheiser IEM line is getting raves, as are Ultimate Ears.

also, i have Etymotic ER6i, and i agree they are very light on bass, but they're not without strengths - they're incredibly detailed and crisp and the isolation is as good as you could want.

To carry on my convo with the illustrious Mr. Ascdi:

  On 2/10/2010 at 10:07 PM, Ascdi said:

As far as Grados go, I've only ever used the SR-60s and 80s, and by "laid-back" I don't mean a matter of EQ .. it's more like everything that comes out of them seems overcompressed. I guess you could maybe say that I think they sound really "slow".

Though I haven't heard the effect you're describing with Grados, I suspect I know what you mean. It's the reason I tend to dislike active speakers: Frequently, they offer overly affected sound and cheap effects in place of excitement. They want you to know that your speakers are doing something.

  Quote

Perhaps it was my pair, or the way they fit in my ears, or something else, but this was far from a matter of taste—it was entire instruments missing from songs, for the entirety of songs. In the case of electronic bass lines with not a lot of high harmonics (again Benga, LFO, etc.) I found those elements of the songs were ENTIRELY missing.

Sounds as if your seal (or tips) were the issue, which isn't necessarily your problem: You didn't like the basic sound of your Etys, so why would you invest extra money in Special Earmolds? Mine were free with my ER-4S because I bought them -- at a discount -- through an audiologist friend. I've only ever used triple flanges and earmolds with isolating earphones. The other tips sound muffled, harsh or or thin.

(Pole 3 is an interesting test disc to use for earphones, BTW. On some tracks, Betke seems to have designed the bass to be nigh-inaudible on frequency-deficient equipment.)

I don't know where you live, but if your audiologist sells Etys, you should make an appointment to demo the ER-4S in a last-ditch attempt to understand why Etymotic has so many fans. As I said before, my job is often to pick out and arrange minutiae in the upper and upper-mid frequencies -- particularly when working with guitarists who fill every possible pocket in the midrange and lower midrange so that there's nothing for me to do but add stratospheric counter-melodies, tailored effect sounds and distant shimmer.

  Quote

The only reason I pointed out the ER-6i's new 50hz spec is that you can be sure if the package says 50hz then the actual audio experience will be considerably worse than even that.

The "new" specs are actually standard ER6i specs; Amazon was using the specs of the older ER6 (gray versus blue):

  Quote

If anything, I'm closer to a DJ than I am to a studio engineer, so I have no problem using a tool that guys who record mandolin overdubs for Sunny Delight commercials (or whatever) "laugh at"

I have to say this: I felt terrible about using the phrase "laugh at," which is why I tried to mediate the effect with qualifying language. When I decided to delete it entirely, I found I could no longer edit my post. I wish I hadn't used the phrase at all, as it carries overtones of discouragement and ridicule that I didn't intend and would never wish on anyone. Composing, improvising and writing sustained works of fiction are some of the most fulfilling things we can do, yet most of humanity never gets to experience that. People on WATMM do, and they should be praised and embraced for that, not dissed.

I agree with you to some extent about the nature of standard studio work (irritating jingles), though ridiculing the engineers who do it is really the flipside of their ridiculing DJs. Sonically, they know their business (though I might not like their taste). (However, I'm the one who started it by using the wrong phrase.

2. It would have been completely impossible to make decent electronic music using the ER-6i's (at least, the sound I was getting out of them). After a while I couldn't stand to use them for anything at all, regardless of genre. I dunno, maybe I got a bad pair.

======================

Great Maker ShaiHulud:

Yes, I'm in fact "that Scrypt," though I'll be paring down my style on these boards at first. Introducing oneself in polyphonic prose in the present century is asking to be taken for a narcissist.

Bose Around-Ear Headphones

~ $189 CAD

are they worth it? or is there something better that is out there?

specs: http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/audio_headphones/around_ear_headphones/index.jsp

lol

  On 2/21/2010 at 10:01 PM, halisray said:

Bose Around-Ear Headphones

~ $189 CAD

 

are they worth it? or is there something better that is out there?

 

specs: http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/audio_headphones/around_ear_headphones/index.jsp

Uh no, don't get those. People wearing those are douchebags that no jack shit about the true quality of headphones. Forget about amazon, forget about any other website than the http://www.head-fi.org/forums/ Everything else is irrelevant, even WATMM.

when i travel, all of my music listening comes from my ipod or iphone. would a pair of Sennheiser HD-555 be a waste for that? or will it be much better?

  On 2/25/2010 at 6:23 PM, jules said:

when i travel, all of my music listening comes from my ipod or iphone. would a pair of Sennheiser HD-555 be a waste for that? or will it be much better?

The 555s can be driven reasonably well from an ipod or iphone (I used to have the similar HD-595s). Keep in mind, though, that they're totally open and would be useless in loud environments (and worse, you'd probably blow an eardrum or two trying to hear over the ambient noise.) They're really nice for home use, though. The sound quality is decent and they're pretty good cross-genre. They're a little lifeless on the bottom end, but not at all bad for the price.

Currently have HD-650s and Grado HF2s for home use, and some Yuin PK3 earbuds (they're decent and cheap!) for exercise and outdoorsy stuff, and some Shure SE-310s for travel (isolation). I think I'm done for a while.

Oh. Thanks for that! I guess I should go with the ER-6is that scrypt mentioned. Is there a reasonably priced over the ear that isolates well?

Nothing really isolates as well as IEMs like etys or shures. For the most part, closed headphones sound terrible unless you spend big bucks, anyway. I've heard the new sure headphone (not earphone/IEM line) is pretty decent, though.

The etys are, as mentioned, great for detail but not particularly full sounding. They're very analytical. So you have to expect that going in. A lot of shure IEMs have a warmer sound sig if you prefer that sort of thing, but the good ones are pretty pricey. You may want to look around the portables section of head-fi (just avoid some of the hyperbole and BS that place invites) to see what else is out there.

Cool thanks baph. Much appreciated

  On 2/26/2010 at 4:11 AM, ieafs said:

anyone else have hd-25s? i've had them a few years and i'm really happy with them... a nice compromise cause they sound good to me in general - and also they're closed and i can use them outside of the house.

 

only thing that annoys me a little is they do give me a bit of a headache sometimes... generally i just leave them stretched on something when i'm not wearing them and it lessens most of the tightness.

i love my hd-25's, but i've run into the same problem. i wear glasses and there's really no way to have the glasses and headphones work together which kind of sucks, but even without my glasses they still wear on the ears after a while. the sound is good enough for me to ignore it, though!

  On 2/9/2010 at 9:11 PM, we_kill_soapscum said:

sony MDRs

they are teh standard everywhere, really

 

light enough to take around

bad enuff to master things

 

i love em, use em at hoem and both radio stations i work at, they are durable except the STUPID curly cable

all of this is v. true

  On 2/26/2010 at 5:37 AM, ieafs said:

i also noticed that wearing them while wearing a woolly hat (while walking one really cold morning) seemed to make them 100x nicer feeling? you look like an absolute fucking prick, but it's so comfortable!

ha, i replaced the earpads on my hd-25 earlier this week since they were starting to come loose (after 5 years of use), and the velour replacement earpads actually have a much more comfortable fit than the originals.

i had the same problem a while back, i used a gas duster on the connectors of the cable that connects the left channel to the right, that fixed it (i've never seen a replacement for that cable). you can also try opening up the little box where the 3.5mm audio cable goes into the headphones (closed with two screws) and cleaning that with some canned air.

i just bought AKG K450, they're nice, light and portable. they come in a nice carrying case too. they sound very nice, quite bassy, but not too much. and they're very comfortable! recommended!

^^ wow, i'm sorry, wrong thread :/

  Quote

Dr. Fritz Sennheiser, an innovator and pioneer in the fields of audio recording and headphones, has died at the age of 98.

 

The founder of Sennheiser Audio began his company by making voltmeters, but it wasn’t long before Sennheiser was making shotgun microphones and some of the finest, most cost-effective headphones available on the market.

 

As this simple, but effective eulogy on Techdirt puts it, let’s all have “a moment of silence for this pioneer. Considering the volume he’s afforded us over the years, we think it’s only fair.”

  On 5/22/2010 at 11:15 AM, the anonymous forumite said:

  Quote

Dr. Fritz Sennheiser, an innovator and pioneer in the fields of audio recording and headphones, has died at the age of 98.

 

The founder of Sennheiser Audio began his company by making voltmeters, but it wasn’t long before Sennheiser was making shotgun microphones and some of the finest, most cost-effective headphones available on the market.

 

As this simple, but effective eulogy on Techdirt puts it, let’s all have “a moment of silence for this pioneer. Considering the volume he’s afforded us over the years, we think it’s only fair.”

Cheers to that man for making what is on my head right now even possible...