I got lost in harmonics

  On 4/20/2010 at 4:04 AM, welcome to the machine said:

  On 4/11/2010 at 8:14 PM, sneaksta303 said:

  On 4/11/2010 at 6:27 PM, welcome to the machine said:

sneaksta303, you have missed the point a bit I think. The whole point is that if you use the knowledge properly, and have a good understanding of it it is a fine tool. Its an explanoratory system and thats how it was designed. The trouble is that people too often see it as a set of rules etc which is completely wrong.

 

I guess. I just don't have to deal with the issue myself really. I already get next to nothing done. If I were to over analyze what I DO do (heh doo doo), I'd just be second guessing myself to the point of NEVER getting anything done. Thinking about my history as a musician however, I think I inadvertently ingrained a lot of things said in this thread when I was a teen playing guitar, so maybe I don't think about it. I don't know how to say what I mean right now.

 

Yeah, I think a lot of the important stuff works best when it just sits in the back of your mind. An example stems from jazz music college, where students are expected to know all of this stuff through and through but get ridiculed if it SOUNDS like they know it. you get taught all the theory and are expected to know it all but if you play with all the clever techniques you can quickly be accused of 'just playing the scales' or 'just going through exercises', and 'not making music'. So even in the genres classically so dependent on theory there is a big awareness of not relying on it for some form of creativity.

 

The idea is for those guys is they learn it so well they never have to try and find a sound, the map they have learned means they have all the potential sounds lined up in the back of there mind which they pick and choose from subconsciously while playing and hopefully it just comes out as music. If you want to get into it that deeply then its about learning so in depth that it doesn't tell you what to do, it simply gives you the ability to call on one of any of the possible ideas you cold go for in split second..

 

All the scale practice and such is not about learning a formula, its about internalising that particular sound SO well that you don't need to think about the theory in the slightest when playing. Every possible sound is there in the forefront of your mind when playing and then you can just think of what you want to play and just do it, regardless of whether it is the simplest major scale line or the crazyest esoteric dischordant passage. Then you are so comfortable with the crazy odd thing you just played it takes a split second to return to playing normal stuff accross the next change.

 

Thats all for a very specific area of music of course, but the way it is approached is the way it should be approached for everything, if you are in the position of knowing it and being able to use it.

 

I don't think it is necessary, of course, but if you have an inquisitive mind and understand how to use the stuff you learn then I think it can be very useful.

Of course, this has more to do with improvisational instrument playing and less to do with songwriting. I agree with everything you say though.

but when you start experimenting free without the knowledge of theory in mind people having the knowledge will laugh at you secretly for doing it all wrong

on the other hand this will never stop as there will always be people that are better in it no matter how far you get

  On 4/20/2010 at 1:09 PM, o00o said:

but when you start experimenting free without the knowledge of theory in mind people having the knowledge will laugh at you secretly for doing it all wrong

 

on the other hand this will never stop as there will always be people that are better in it no matter how far you get

 

Not at all, the ones who don't know ENOUGH about theory will tell you you are doing it all wrong, those who have learned it in depth will be well aware that there IS no wrong! They will however, be able to tell you what you are doing, and why it sounds the way it does.

Yeah, my post was more about playing than writing, but I think the basic approach crosses over pretty well to anything where you have to come up with melodies over chords, or chord sequences etc!

giving advice on how to make music is hard since we're all different.. i usually just start with something and at some point the whole thing starts suggesting itself, it actually feels then like i were completely out of it and the music starts making itself(can't find better words for that, sorry). i actually never know where trying something out and fooling around with it ends and where "composing" starts and my stuff is mostly best when i'm going about without any intentions, or let's call it demands. of course, i sometimes do have some sort of an idea, but when i try working it out i'm jamming on it, too. and then even just a few quick changes can open a totally new path, which i never hesitate to follow. and these jams would always end up being saved and worked on in a "serious" manner, meaning i'll shape it until it's kind of finished, helping it to become itself. all i can say is don't force music to come. and don't put yourself under stress to have to come up with something. take a trip around the woods for a day. or maybe you should try something that doesn't allow you to fall back into your habits. maybe try playing the guitar with boxing gloves?!? it's just music! don't be afraid and just plunge into the unknown! and if you're really trying to find the new sound, i highly recommend watching the mighty boosh episode "the priest and the beast". should tell you all you need to know..

It's really good to have basic playng skills. But I think the main diference between having playing skills and not is that when you have the skills you play and record the melody (it's much funier) and if not you just build blocks in piano roll ( but have some advantages too) and experiment more. And music theory is a very powerfull tool. Of course it depends on music that you make, you don't need much music theory for breakcore. But you could use it in interresting ways of course.

  On 5/20/2010 at 7:54 PM, Son House said:

giving advice on how to make music is hard since we're all different.. i usually just start with something and at some point the whole thing starts suggesting itself, it actually feels then like i were completely out of it and the music starts making itself(can't find better words for that, sorry). i actually never know where trying something out and fooling around with it ends and where "composing" starts and my stuff is mostly best when i'm going about without any intentions, or let's call it demands. of course, i sometimes do have some sort of an idea, but when i try working it out i'm jamming on it, too. and then even just a few quick changes can open a totally new path, which i never hesitate to follow. and these jams would always end up being saved and worked on in a "serious" manner, meaning i'll shape it until it's kind of finished, helping it to become itself. all i can say is don't force music to come. and don't put yourself under stress to have to come up with something. take a trip around the woods for a day. or maybe you should try something that doesn't allow you to fall back into your habits. maybe try playing the guitar with boxing gloves?!? it's just music! don't be afraid and just plunge into the unknown! and if you're really trying to find the new sound, i highly recommend watching the mighty boosh episode "the priest and the beast". should tell you all you need to know..

Yes man, this is pretty much how I write all my tracks anymore. Get an interesting beat going on the monome, fiddle around with a synth over the top of it while recording, find the good stuff, edit, loop, repeat... I also love the occasional "happy accidents" that happen during this process.

I think just finding what you love about music and exploring it is important. Harmonics, melody, beats, atmosphere, etc.. Find it, learn it to your satisfaction and move along when you find it's the right time. Any good artist has different periods of exploration. So don't be afraid to change.