American "Tea Party" Morons

  On 3/22/2010 at 3:30 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 3/22/2010 at 2:56 AM, maus said:

that new left media video is a little frustrating to me. i've seen that guy / group do similar videos at palin rallies and the like.

 

the problem is that videos like that are what's causing general mob mentality and stupidity in america. it's edited and constructed in such a way as to further a specific agenda, and show events in a certain light. it's snarky "clever" infotainment, not legitimate journalism.

 

this does NOT excuse those people from saying stupid things, mind you... but the reason they're all so up-in-arms about healthcare / politics in general is because they're receiving their "news" and formulating / adopting their opinions from irresponsible media. and this "new left media" stuff is doing the same. it allows smug, holier-than-thou liberal hipster types to sit around and drink PBR and say "OMG, did you see that video with the tea partiers? what morons! they don't even know what provisions of the healthcare reform bill are the ones that bother them."

 

well you know what? neither do i. granted, i've not spent a great deal of time reviewing this stuff. of what i do know about it, i'm slightly furious that the method the US gov't has come up with to ensure everyone has health care is to say "get health care or pay a fine". i'm slightly furious that every reasonable, non-corporate-benefiting option has been stricken from the bill. i'm slightly furious that this country CANNOT get around kow-towing to its corporate masters.

 

however, some of my opinions are likely misinformed. the only place i can get information about this stuff, outside of spending the bulk of my days reading every amendment to the bill and watching complete coverage on c-span, is to watch the news. and the news doesn't do its job.

 

granted, the state of bureaucracy these days is such that getting to the bottom of things and presenting the PURE FACTS seems impossible. but rather than seeing a finger pointing "look at the circus" video, i'd rather see someone track down the folks in that crowd who have legitimate gripes about what's happening with the bill. rather than showing the wingnuts with bad grammar on placards, track down logical, factual based arguments from intelligent people. maybe there aren't any anymore.

 

getting angry about ignorance distracts from the true issues, and furthers ignorance in the other direction. rather than focusing on the issues, we're focusing on people who aren't focusing on the issues, and it's sad.

 

i personally think the US is irreparable. stupidity and blind devotion to a "side" are the norm. partly due to disinterest and the celebrity of politicians, and partly due to the impossible swamp of nonsense that politics has become.

 

my new analogy for anything politically related that comes up in conversation is that no matter what any of us do, even obama, even the most honest and well-spirited political hopeful, it's no more effective than shouting at a house fire.

 

it's depressing, really.

 

 

pretty much hit it on the head.

definitely hit it on the head, but what else do we have left but our human emotions? we have no control, all we can do is sit back and watch nature take its course. we can become part of nature, but i'm not about to do that.

says the man with the kitties in his avatar

New Left Media is awesome . I am Far-Left , anything to get my point across , i agree with.

anything?

also just for clarification wtf does far-left signify anyway?

this terminology makes my head asplode.

  On 3/21/2010 at 3:49 PM, data said:

comedy gold

All I know is these motherfuckers didn't lift a finger to stop GWB from squandering taxpayer dollars on an erroneous war in Iraq that cost us our national reputation, billions of dollars and thousands of lives but they take to the street when somebody does something to improve the standard of living in this country.

Also, take note of how they even wear GWB hats to prove how fucking imbecilic they are

  On 3/21/2010 at 8:05 PM, Boxing Day said:

Fucking Assholes

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik4f1dRbP8&feature=channel

The guy throwing the money at the dude is clearly doing alright financially.

I don't understand it. I just don't.

  On 3/22/2010 at 3:55 AM, vamos scorcho said:

what else do we have left but our human emotions? we have no control, all we can do is sit back and watch nature take its course. we can become part of nature, but i'm not about to do that.

this is an interesting question. my girlfriend gets exasperated when i start talking about this stuff - she maintains that voting and being "politically active" is essential because "without hope, what do we have?"

i can't answer that. it's actually something i tend to struggle with; when you're prepared to give up hope on an entire society - perhaps an entire planet - it sort of leaves you with an intellectual void. does me, anyway. a lot of the spiky liberal types that get incensed when i start elaborating on my anarchic-leaning views expect me to have a solution, since i've disowned any interest in the current system.

don't quite understand that logic.

it's a fucked situation. human nature has this fascinating dichotomy of being both capable of amazing things, yet at the same time no less brutally neanderthal than gorillas. no offense to gorillas. and the sad truth is that the few (i'd like to think it's the minority) folks who have the wherewithal and ambition to exploit and dominate the remainder of society seem to be spectacularly successful.

in the meantime, the general populace stumbles about at or below average intelligence, fighting with each other about it.

i remember being somewhat shocked in school that so many great thinkers were atheists and misanthropes - great artists and thinkers who ended up so disgusted with humanity that they gave up on it altogether and became "recluses". but i'm beginning to understand (not that i'm claiming to be a great artist or thinker.)

perhaps it's just the sentence of the self-thinker. condemned to watch powerless as people destroy themselves.

or....

this is how it's always been. and it's not really getting worse, it's just the nature of things, and a cycle of nature, much like everything else.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/health/policy/22health.html?ref=global-home

it's pretty much law now. now i'll bother reading to see what actually made it into the final bill.

So basically, health insurers make out like bandits, if I'm reading that times article correctly?

Why not just get rid of insurance companies altogether?

in america corporations have the right to behave like bandits. they call it freedom, free market or capitalism. dunno, it's all strangely puzzling

someone on this board once said, "the government will always have one eye on you, and one hand in your pocket."

ain't that the truth.

  On 3/22/2010 at 8:50 AM, goDel said:

in america corporations have the right to behave like bandits. they call it freedom, free market or capitalism. dunno, it's all strangely puzzling

the trouble is, this is neither free market nor capitalism.

our intellectual conversations on the internet will change everything~

  On 3/22/2010 at 8:52 AM, hahathhat said:

someone on this board once said, "the government will always have one eye on you, and one hand in your pocket."

 

ain't that the truth.

and the corporations always have an eye on the government and one hand in the governments pocket.

america is a plutocracy.

but lol@all the tea party conservative morons crying "america died, freedom died, we are now a socialist dictatorship"...holy hyperbole, batman. i bet they cried the same way about the civil rights or universal suffrage.

  On 3/22/2010 at 4:12 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

anything?

 

also just for clarification wtf does far-left signify anyway?

 

this terminology makes my head asplode.

Far left, in a US context, means strongly democrat.

Also, regarding the topic, i find it really funny that people are fighting what would be in the longterm (but not distant longterm) a reduction in their HMO bills.

  On 3/22/2010 at 2:56 AM, maus said:

that new left media video is a little frustrating to me. i've seen that guy / group do similar videos at palin rallies and the like.

 

the problem is that videos like that are what's causing general mob mentality and stupidity in america. it's edited and constructed in such a way as to further a specific agenda, and show events in a certain light. it's snarky "clever" infotainment, not legitimate journalism.

 

this does NOT excuse those people from saying stupid things, mind you... but the reason they're all so up-in-arms about healthcare / politics in general is because they're receiving their "news" and formulating / adopting their opinions from irresponsible media. and this "new left media" stuff is doing the same. it allows smug, holier-than-thou liberal hipster types to sit around and drink PBR and say "OMG, did you see that video with the tea partiers? what morons! they don't even know what provisions of the healthcare reform bill are the ones that bother them."

 

well you know what? neither do i. granted, i've not spent a great deal of time reviewing this stuff. of what i do know about it, i'm slightly furious that the method the US gov't has come up with to ensure everyone has health care is to say "get health care or pay a fine". i'm slightly furious that every reasonable, non-corporate-benefiting option has been stricken from the bill. i'm slightly furious that this country CANNOT get around kow-towing to its corporate masters.

 

however, some of my opinions are likely misinformed. the only place i can get information about this stuff, outside of spending the bulk of my days reading every amendment to the bill and watching complete coverage on c-span, is to watch the news. and the news doesn't do its job.

 

granted, the state of bureaucracy these days is such that getting to the bottom of things and presenting the PURE FACTS seems impossible. but rather than seeing a finger pointing "look at the circus" video, i'd rather see someone track down the folks in that crowd who have legitimate gripes about what's happening with the bill. rather than showing the wingnuts with bad grammar on placards, track down logical, factual based arguments from intelligent people. maybe there aren't any anymore.

 

getting angry about ignorance distracts from the true issues, and furthers ignorance in the other direction. rather than focusing on the issues, we're focusing on people who aren't focusing on the issues, and it's sad.

 

i personally think the US is irreparable. stupidity and blind devotion to a "side" are the norm. partly due to disinterest and the celebrity of politicians, and partly due to the impossible swamp of nonsense that politics has become.

 

my new analogy for anything politically related that comes up in conversation is that no matter what any of us do, even obama, even the most honest and well-spirited political hopeful, it's no more effective than shouting at a house fire.

 

it's depressing, really.

the game is broken, its rules make no sense but everyone plays it. we all live in a farse that we built for ourselves. some people really believe it, they believe they have a role in it. most of what people do is a copy of what other people are doing, or of what they believe their role should be. people place themselves in boxes and act accordingly to the box's label. there's no place for reason in the game, even the most thoughtful person will succumb to this type of behavior, making their mind up before knowing the facts, but the real fact is that you'll never know all the facts, yet you are urged to make up your mind. the world is broken. it makes no sense anymore but we all have to live in it.

but that line of thought is pretty much a useless dead-end, isn't it?

insurance corporations are indeed making profits, but not anything that is anomalous for corporate america (take that how you will). the problem in america is the incredibly high costs of everything. throwing an additional 30 million people into a system that is "broken", for lack of a better word, is going to solve short term problems, and exacerbate others.

there are a lot of ways we can help reduce costs, but none of them are quick, fixall solutions that are easy to understand. therefore, there is no way the american public will be able to debate this issue intelligently. it's just another red vs blue fight that we seem to crave.

one of the biggest problems though isn't the insurance companies, it's the pharmaceuticals. anyone who has been to america knows that there are 40000 kinds of viagara, all advertised to an unbelievable extent (at least one drug ad per commercial break in the super bowl). this incredible amount of money that goes into advertising new drugs that are often not new, just a rehash of last years "purple pill", is utter bullshit. the amount of marketing money floating around in pharmaceutical america is staggering. all these prescriptions, which should be private, are plastered to billboards telling us we need this pill or that pill to cure problem x. it creates a cultural problem where everyone wants a quick solution in pill form. want to lose weight? here's a pill and a prescription. depressed? here's a pill.

nevermind the the list of short term side effects (WHO KNOWS about long term), pharmaceuticals are in control of the american medical system simply because they make the most money. they are the ones reaping the profits from this system.

here's a recommendation: make it illegal to advertise any drug. any medical advice you need should be from your doctor. if you really are depressed and your doctor thinks zoloft will work, give it a shot. commercials don't do anything but glorify a product. it is your doctors job to know what drugs are out there, what they will do etc. of course that doesn't mean all drugs will be safe or whatever, but it sets a standard that doesn't exist in america in the webmd diagnose and treat yourself society.

here are some ways to help reduce costs: http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/From-the-President/2005/Taking-a-Walk-on-the-Supply-Side--10-Steps-to-Control-Health-Care-Costs.aspx

and here is a report that outlines why the US spends so much on healthcare: http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/reports/pdfs/healthcare/MGI_US_HC_synthesis.pdf

These pictures are from THE HUFFINGTON POST ARTICLE about this shit.

I've noticed a lot of the more conservative watmm'ers have remained relatively silent on this one.

Please chime in and let us know if this whole movement is actually racially based.

Also, tell us how this bill/Obama will kill babies... how Obama is like Hitler and how this is un-constitutional.

I honestly what to know how this train of thought is formulated.

Also, here is a good article explaining the major factors of the health bill...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000846-503544.html

... I guess (from what I've heard) there's a major typo near the beginning. According to CBO estimates, it would save $1.2 trillion (not billion) over the 2nd ten years.

the conservative watmmers are getting their guns ready to fight the nazi commie socialist scum.

how is it that they can use the same brush to tar someone accused of socialism/marxism, and nationalist socialism in the same stroke. the two are literally poles apart. are roughly 50% of americans that fucking stupid? how is it that so much of the human race is so stupid? what are they teaching people in schools in america?

  On 3/22/2010 at 4:52 PM, jefferoo said:

These pictures are from THE HUFFINGTON POST ARTICLE about this shit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've noticed a lot of the more conservative watmm'ers have remained relatively silent on this one.

Please chime in and let us know if this whole movement is actually racially based.

Also, tell us how this bill/Obama will kill babies... how Obama is like Hitler and how this is un-constitutional.

I honestly what to know how this train of thought is formulated.

 

Also, here is a good article explaining the major factors of the health bill...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000846-503544.html

... I guess (from what I've heard) there's a major typo near the beginning. According to CBO estimates, it would save $1.2 trillion (not billion) over the 2nd ten years.

once again as a watmmer leaning more towards a social libertarian standpoint, I am happy that this passed to some extent, but disappointed in the possibilities and loopholes this may provide....without a doubt I think I can say the large part of the public have little idea of what this bill ACTUALLY does, you can make the bullet points and thats all good and well, but a 1200 page bill cannot be properly understood through talking points and posturing.

on the note of the tea parties, like I said I somehow ended up in Baltimore during the protest near the harbor. I think I may have seen some racist signs, but keep in mind there were also a lot of minorities there...I saw a good bit of blacks, i think a few asians...reasons for their participation aside, its scary that the MSNBC/CNN wing of the corporate media never shows these people, just like FOX never shows the men dressed up like responsible business owners for the world trade protests/battle of seattle.

the media only brings up the ones that enrage public opinion, hence, the idiots with nonstop "Obama is a black cancer" or whatnot on their signs...I think there is more to it than that, but at the same time, I don't believe many of these protesters have any idea of what they are really protesting.

Also, my libertarian ideology comes into conflict with my belief that there should be a strive for a public good. Most of our money is generated by the big guys' bureaucratic tactics, sure, but its also made on the backs of hard-working individuals that deserve a better quality of life. Im not advocating that every industrial worker should be a millionaire, but let them be adequately represented in this system, they deserve it like anyone else with a job.

I couldn't help but crack a smile when I heard that people making 200k + a year had to pay a Medicare tax starting 2013...you fucks had a chance to voluntarily help the lower classes out, that time has passed.

IMHO, greed is good, but only to a point...it shouldn't be unlimited.

greed is a horrible concept. i believe that people should be entitled to free healthcare, affordable real estate, lifestyle choices (sexual orientation), protection from discriminatory or harrassing behavior, and access to what are currently contraband drugs and narcotics (cannabis etc.). how did we let things get this way?

  On 3/22/2010 at 5:18 PM, hexson said:

greed is a horrible concept. i believe that people should be entitled to free healthcare, affordable real estate, lifestyle choices (sexual orientation), protection from discriminatory or harrassing behavior, and access to what are currently contraband drugs and narcotics (cannabis etc.). how did we let things get this way?

greed is an inherent trait in all of humanity, i don't agree with it,but I am as guilty of it as all others.

we let things get this way because we let other people speak for us.

This will sound like a stupid question, but I'm not mega clued up on this and I'm an outsider, but why are these people so vehemently against the health care bill? What is so bad that they're protesting it? Are they losing out or something somehow?