That Wikileaks video

  On 4/9/2010 at 4:06 PM, theSun said:

it's not a joke mesh gear, you simply don't know enough americans.

 

i'm serious. you guys should see some of this discussion on a local message board. and i live in bluestate new york. i'd say most (over 51%) people here think these attacks are justified or at least have no ethical problems with it.

I'd say most of the posts you are reading are trollish and you are the one being a fool taking it seriously. I live in America (Texas, in fact) and I can without a doubt say that most people do not feel this way.

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2010/04/6-2nd-brigade-combat-team-15-6-investigation.pdf

US military take on the event

  On 4/9/2010 at 7:25 PM, fischerbeats said:

  On 4/9/2010 at 4:06 PM, theSun said:

it's not a joke mesh gear, you simply don't know enough americans.

 

i'm serious. you guys should see some of this discussion on a local message board. and i live in bluestate new york. i'd say most (over 51%) people here think these attacks are justified or at least have no ethical problems with it.

 

I'd say most of the posts you are reading are trollish and you are the one being a fool taking it seriously. I live in America (Texas, in fact) and I can without a doubt say that most people do not feel this way.

most people where you live feel these attacks were unjustified? i don't believe you.

i'd be interested to hear what you guys think of that US military pdf

it basically starts at pg 11 BTW

  On 4/9/2010 at 7:48 PM, theSun said:

 

 

most people where you live feel these attacks were unjustified? i don't believe you.

While that is most certainly your choice, I see no reason why you would choose to believe that everyone is psychopathic instead.

did you glance at the link i posted or are you just riding the bandwagon here?

again, it starts at pg 11. after the summary, there are pics supporting the summary as well as several testimonials from soldiers who were on site. although it is tough to read their writing, their personal accounts are quite telling.

for example, this group was called in to support ground forces who had been taking small arms fire the whole morning. fwiw wikileaks chose to omit the 2 men carrying AKs in the initial group. also it was documented that they observed weapons being loaded into the house they blew up with a missile. also that they had found several AKs and RPGs on site after the incident.

not saying that this is absolutely justified, but this isn't cut and dry and none of us can really see it in proper context, since we were not there.

I'm not saying this is justified at all, I am saying that most people agree with you, even down here in "redneck backwoods" Texas.

an interview with a soldier who was carrying the child

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/

excellent article

very interesting read.

  On 4/9/2010 at 12:50 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

  On 4/9/2010 at 7:24 AM, impotentwhitecapitalist said:

  Quote

This is a GREAT video, it shows how efficient our military is. It also shows the number of hoops our soldiers go through before they engage. Lastly it shows how our soldiers quickly transition from life-takers to life-savers when enemy or innocents are wounded. God Bless our military, and God Bless all the men involved with this one incident. I hope they don't regret or feel bad about anything in this video. I also pray and hope that the military has their men's backs and don't cave to the liberal leaning media.

 

i feel that a comment like that is to be taken seriously, because there are a shit load of people in america who would agree. shit, half the people on my street would agree with this jargon. scary really.

i'm pretty damn sure it was a joke/troll dude

haha oh man how lucky you are to not know about the undercurrent of extremely ignorant and christian sociopaths in america

you want to see more 'joke/trolls' ?

go here - http://www.breitbart.tv/gay-rights-protesters-handcuff-themselves-to-wh-fence/

look at the responses by people about the gay soldiers who handcuffed themselves to the whitehouse fence

it's possible some of these comments are parodies of psychos with no empathy but let me quote a select few

  Quote

Dave in Oregon April 20th, 2010 - 4:39 pm

I hope they are at leaast charged with impersonating members of the military.

 

Impersonating a Human Being should also be considered.

 

Maybe they should just make sure that the handcuff can not be removed!

(and that they are not allowed food, drink or visitors.)

  Quote

Should have left them there. Village People impersonators.

  Quote

Genitalia Wars April 20th, 2010 - 5:07 pm

All the queers want to parade their genitals in front of Sodom and Gamorrah ( Washington). Why not, Obama likes to polish some guy’s rocket every now and then. Can’t blame him really with that thing he has to sleep with.

  Quote

ic April 20th, 2010 - 5:13 pm

So, the Village People are seditious, racist, heterophobes? According to Larry Sinclair (youtube press conference) Obama swings both ways, and I don’t mean Dem-Rep.

  Quote

Frank V. April 20th, 2010 - 5:45 pm

Too bad there isn’t an islamic gang we could let loose on these morons… Some lead pipes would sound interesting bouncing of some knuckleheads skull.. You know how Islam looks at gays…. Just sayin….

  Quote

Guest April 20th, 2010 - 6:13 pm

Are they really in the military? If not, isn’t it a crime to impersonate a military person?

 

If the “don’t ‘aks’ don’t tell is repealed, will these sodomites enlist immediately? Is that what is holding them back? Do they understand the “this is my rifle – - this is my gun…” thing?

 

Ron Cornelius April 20th, 2010 - 6:47 pm

These people are lucky the United States Code of Military Justice does not prohibit impersonating an enlisted man or woman. Then again, the life of an enlisted person is something no one would want to assume. I can assure you that in my enlisted years in the military, there were gays skulking around looking for victims

 

Capitan April 20th, 2010 - 6:48 pm

Homosexuality should be illegal in this Country ! The punishment…..They should be forced to eat an entire box of Ex-Lax. Not to make them sick, just help teach them what their A$$holes were made for.

 

]Joe Republican April 20th, 2010 - 7:15 pm

You dont see me banging down the White House fence for straight rights….why should fags get all the attention…

  On 4/9/2010 at 8:25 PM, theSun said:

i'd be interested to hear what you guys think of that US military pdf

 

it basically starts at pg 11 BTW

So this is the same US military that denied access to the video for 2 years? Yeah after reading through the PDF briefly, hmmm cover the asses of anybody even remotely involved.

That Lamo guy really is a total prick.

Lamo lives up to his name.

"I hope that Manning gets the same chance as I did - the same chance to take his punishment as I did and start a new life as I did."

"I like to think I prevented him from getting into more serious trouble."

Lamo did what he had to do. He's already been in jail. This guy put him in a bad position. Lamo knows he's being watched closely, he couldn't keep quite, he has to assume the leaker will get busted eventually, and he doesn't want any involvement when that goes down.

yeah imagine how fucked lamo would be if they caught manning and then looked through his logs.

What is the worst that could have possibly happened to Lamo as a result of his inaction to in this situation? Better yet, how is it even possible that he could have fallen prey to the watchful eye of the government? The two communicated with each other solely via instant message, one of the few means of electronic conversation that can occur discreetly in this day and age. The only way Lamo could expect to be incriminated in that situation is if he himself brought these activities to light, which is exactly what happened. God knows Manning didn't have the motive to provide a record of the conversation.

He helped to uncover the murder of two journalists and an innocent Iraqi citizen caused by the military's carelessness. Law or not, he did the right thing, and Lamo should have realized that. From what I understand, their communication was an ongoing thing which occurred over the period of several weeks, and if he didn't want to get involved, he had every chance in the world to sever any ties with this dude. Not to say a word to Manning about it and report this after the two seemed to have established a mutual trust is backstabbing, plain and simple. That Lamo is a patent sufferer of "Asperger Syndrome" doesn't not make him an asshole.

whether manning had the motive to provide the record or not doesn't matter. the military has their own hackers working for them. it's not like this manning guy was the endall of all military communication and keeper of all encryption keys. i'm sure lamo didn't "trust" manning, plus he knows the feds are probably watching him, with a focus on electronic communications probably. for lamo's inaction, i'm sure they would find some way to charge him with treason.

IMO manning sealed his own fate when he started bragging about this shit to strangers. but by then what was done was done, so to say, i guess he wasn't comfortable sitting on a secret like that for the rest of his life.

What really interests me here is the ease with which this guy browsed TS/SCI networks for 8+ months without anyone taking notice. From the sounds of it this guy had nearly total access to classified document servers and was limited only by his own ingenuity in plucking bits from the right places. As an IA he would have had legitimate needs for accessing those networks but its pretty shocking that he was able to freely browse about for such a prolonged period. He is lucky the case garnered some media attention though. I know an individual who was not so lucky and has more or less disappeared within the Military's detention centers stateside after NCI nabbed him.

tl;dr post ahead

  On 6/7/2010 at 7:37 PM, theSun said:

whether manning had the motive to provide the record or not doesn't matter. the military has their own hackers working for them. it's not like this manning guy was the endall of all military communication and keeper of all encryption keys. i'm sure lamo didn't "trust" manning, plus he knows the feds are probably watching him, with a focus on electronic communications probably. for lamo's inaction, i'm sure they would find some way to charge him with treason.

 

IMO manning sealed his own fate when he started bragging about this shit to strangers. but by then what was done was done, so to say, i guess he wasn't comfortable sitting on a secret like that for the rest of his life.

Not disagreeing with you, but perhaps I should clarify - Lamo gave Manning the impression of a trustful relationship by virtue of his CONTINUAL CORRESPONDENCE with him. Given numerous occasions to end a relationship that would incriminate him, he chose to stay in contact with the video's leaker. If he was so worried about saving his own skin, why wouldn't he have just ended the conversation before it entered a level of fuckedness he couldn't work his way out of?

I'm not completely exonerating Manning here - granted, it was rather bullheaded of him to go forward so openly to a man who was known to have been in contact with the government, but that's not really what he's being punished for, is it? Yeah, Lamo could be well fucked, but even with the Feds focusing on his electronic communication, the chances of these instant messages being discovered without his consent are really quite slim [EDIT: Didn't see the part about e-mails, apologies for this ]. And while there's also a tiny chance that the government could have discovered Manning's chatlogs after his arrest, he seems like an intelligent guy, surely he would have known to delete any evidence of his correspondence with Lamo.

  Adrian Lamo said:

"I hope that Manning gets the same chance as I did - the same chance to take his punishment as I did and start a new life as I did. I like to think I prevented him from getting into more serious trouble."

Douchebag quote, this. He seems quite oblivious to the fact that if he hadn't intervened, it's very likely that Manning would still be living a normal life, but no, he now faces a potentially lengthy sentence, simply for exposing a government injustice. Clearly, the people who should be punished for this are the Army assailants in the video. He may have done was what legally responsible, but he's still a prick.

whether he's a prick or not isn't up to me, but lamo is a smart kid who knows how computers work. saying that there is a tiny chance at the army not recovering the chat logs is pretty naive IMO. lamo didn't know how manning was securing his system, should lamo just assume everything will work out for the best and he should just wait for manning to get arrested? what if they didn't find the content of the logs but found that manning was in communication with him? do you think that's something lamo wants? you think the us lawyers will just let that go? no. lamo will be locked up in court because he was in communication with a known "traitor," as manning will certainly be branded by the prosecution.

also it sounds like manning just needed someone to brag to about his shit. and i can't emphasize how dumb it was to reveal everything to an ex-hacker who recently just got out of his own legal clusterfuck (and lamo just changed some headlines, news stories, silly stuff), it's not like manning and lamo are fighting the same fight against the big evil gov't.

and i suppose he could have broke off the communication, but i would bet that there was a point where lamo no longer considered that an option. as soon as lamo found out about the video or the 250k documents i'm sure that was the point of no return.

  On 6/8/2010 at 3:37 PM, theSun said:

whether he's a prick or not isn't up to me, but lamo is a smart kid who knows how computers work. saying that there is a tiny chance at the army not recovering the chat logs is pretty naive IMO. lamo didn't know how manning was securing his system, should lamo just assume everything will work out for the best and he should just wait for manning to get arrested? what if they didn't find the content of the logs but found that manning was in communication with him? do you think that's something lamo wants? you think the us lawyers will just let that go? no. lamo will be locked up in court because he was in communication with a known "traitor," as manning will certainly be branded by the prosecution.

 

also it sounds like manning just needed someone to brag to about his shit. and i can't emphasize how dumb it was to reveal everything to an ex-hacker who recently just got out of his own legal clusterfuck (and lamo just changed some headlines, news stories, silly stuff), it's not like manning and lamo are fighting the same fight against the big evil gov't.

 

and i suppose he could have broke off the communication, but i would bet that there was a point where lamo no longer considered that an option. as soon as lamo found out about the video or the 250k documents i'm sure that was the point of no return.

Lamo sent this message to the 2600 group on Facebook a week before this happened.

  Quote

Please take a moment to delete your ~/.purple/otr.private_key & re-key

as soon as possible. Verify fingerprints in an out-of-band fashion,

such as telephone.

 

If practical, change PGP keys, and consider re-keying on a set schedule.

 

Set the re-key time on your SSH sessions to 30 minutes or less. *wild guess*

 

There is no specific reason for this. I'm just suggesting this as a

friendly piece of advice. Please act as soon as you have the time.

 

Post on the wall if you have any questions about how to do the above,

or whether it applies to you. If you don't currently use OTR and PGP,

look into them, especially OTR.

 

If anyone here with some actual expertise in cryptography has advice,

I'm welcoming it.

 

*** Disable logging for OTR conversations. ***

 

Have a nice day.

What does it mean? Well... don't assume your secure conversations are actually secure.

exactly

edit- it seems likely that lamo could be talking to d00d x about general hacking stuff, then d00d x claims responsibility for some serious government espionage shit. lamo figures he's already fucked as he reads what is already transmitted and recorded using a system he does not have experience with, and maybe he even suspects a gov't set up.

i think lamo made the only decision he could without seriously jeopardizing his own future.

Personally I suspect Lamo did this for the publicity. Lamo said he turned Manning in because he was concerned about national security, not because he was concerned about his own ass. Sounds to me like a PR move. He already is reaping the benefits and doing interviews.. Who knows, he may even end up with a book deal like Shimomura and Markoff. I don't really care one way or the other but Lamo's statement about Manning doing his time and going on to an awesome life is a load of shit. Manning won't get a slap on the wrist for being an intelligent hacker, he'll be hung up to dry to scare the shit out of any other enlisted soldier who dares to abuse his security clearance. Manning will be lucky if he ever has anything resembling a normal life after this pans out.

  On 6/8/2010 at 3:37 PM, theSun said:

it's not like manning and lamo are fighting the same fight against the big evil gov't.

Yes, and this is precisely why a sound court wouldn't convict Lamo for his association. It's just common sense.