someone clue me in on this gordon brown PR mess

wait i don't get it, help me i'm confused. because if this really happened then British politics ARE EXACTLY LIKE THE THICK OF IT, 1st episode of season 1 i believe where Hugh is confronted by the lady who screams 'she's not laughing she's pissing herself!' and who is shown on the news looking like a complete fool. Also Nicola Murray on the radio in Season 3

sorry if someone already posted these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9q7axqCA0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIu9XJeXtwo

you are half correct - british politics is pretty much 50% the thick of it, 50% yes minister.

  On 5/1/2010 at 11:08 PM, chenGOD said:

So by joining the very open minded BNP they're not saying that they're racists they're saying they just want peace and harmony for all?

The BNP is a racial supremacist party, but it steals the rhetoric of right wing newspapers to attract voters who are not racial supremacists. Racism is part of it, but I think that people are being seduced by other populist policies such as leaving the European Union, pulling soldiers out of Afghanistan conflict (where many soldiers are getting killed or maimed), and socialist economic policies explained by their slogan "British Jobs For British Workers". Basically the BNP appeals to people's emotions and exploits any weaknesses it sees in the mainstream parties. It's a racist party, but it's attracting people for other reasons apart from racism.

Despite the rise in popularity of the BNP, a large proportion of betrayed Labour voters will stay at home rather than vote for anyone, including it seems the woman who was part of this PR controversy.

  On 5/1/2010 at 11:25 PM, chunky said:

  On 5/1/2010 at 11:08 PM, chenGOD said:

So by joining the very open minded BNP they're not saying that they're racists they're saying they just want peace and harmony for all?

 

The BNP is a racial supremacist party, but it steals the rhetoric of right wing newspapers to attract voters who are not racial supremacists. Racism is part of it, but I think that people are being seduced by other populist policies such as leaving the European Union, pulling soldiers out of Afghanistan conflict (where many soldiers are getting killed or maimed), and socialist economic policies explained by their slogan "British Jobs For British Workers". Basically the BNP appeals to people's emotions and exploits any weaknesses it sees in the mainstream parties. It's a racist party, but it's attracting people for other reasons apart from racism.

 

Despite the rise in popularity of the BNP, a large proportion of betrayed Labour voters will stay at home rather than vote for anyone, including it seems the woman who was part of this PR controversy.

How many people in the UK don't know that the BNP is a racist party? All the other bullshit is exactly that: bullshit.

How many of those shitty jobs that immigrants do would you see all those fucking dole recipients do? Few and far between.

Scapegoating immigrants is a fantastically convenient way to make sure things get better for the status quo. It's intellectually lazy and factually dishonest, but fuck it, whatever makes a person feel better about themselves right?

england should build a giant fence in the ocean around the whole island

most people over the age of 65 would applaud that idea.

  On 5/2/2010 at 11:50 AM, hahathhat said:

england should build a giant fence in the ocean around the whole island

cutting off scotland and wales?

scotland and wales are merely stepping stones for value-destroying immigrants.

"How many people in the UK don't know that the BNP is a racist party?"

Quite a lot, including the sikhs and Chinese people who have joined as members recently. There is a significant proportion of the British population who have little intellect, and will be persuaded by the BNP's billboards and advertising campaigns which are not based on race.

"All the other bullshit is exactly that: bullshit."

Resisting attempts to create a federal country called Europe is in the blood of the traditional working class Labour vote. Hugh Gaitskell, Labour leader in the 1950s has been quoted to say that (the precursor to and current EU's ) European federalism will be "the end of Britain as an independent European state, the end of a thousand years of history!". The Labour party was opposed to British membership of the European union until the 1980s when they realised that they could use it to impose certain trade union legislation on Britain and that the Conservative Party would not be able to reverse that legislation. Labour changed its attitude on Europe, but the core working class vote hadn't. Labour left a political vacuum, and now the BNP, for its own creepy reasons, has filled the gap in the market to sweep up Labour votes.

I don't know how you could dismiss the death and mutilation of British soldiers as bullshit. BNP have exploited this unjust Afghanistan war, appealing to people's emotions over the war to recruit new members. BNP has quite a following among soldiers for this reason.

Regarding "British Jobs For British Workers", well Gordon Brown himself used this phrase, quite stupidly I believe, seeing as he didn't believe it himself. No wonder the BNP jumped on it, to steal Labour votes. It's not bullshit for people to worry about having a job.

"How many of those shitty jobs that immigrants do would you see all those fucking dole recipients do? Few and far between."

Me? I said I wouldn't want to shut the door on immigration. When people immigrate here I don't give a fuck what they wear or what job they do, it's up to them not me. I believe in liberty.

About the BNP, they're not talking about cleaning toilets, they're talking about mainstream working class jobs such as being a plumber, electrician, carpenter, builder, or whatever. BNP billboards that say "British Jobs For British Workers" are accompanied by images of smartly dressed builders.

EU legislation means that anyone from any EU country can come to live and work in Britain with the same rights as British citizens. What happened was that many skilled Polish people came here and worked in skilled working class jobs for cheaper wages than people here. It has had a significant affect on many communities, to the point where even Labour MPs have regretted the scale on which it happened. The BNP offer seemingly easy solutions and answers to this problem, so no wonder that desperate people are fooled by this demagoguery. You may think it's bullshit to worry about getting a job, but the people who worry about getting a job don't think it's bullshit at all!

"Scapegoating immigrants is a fantasticaelly convenient way to make sure things get better for the status quo. It's intellectually lazy and factually dishonest, but fuck it, whatever makes a person feel better about themselves right?"

Well exactly, that's the problem. The BNP is exploiting the weakness of the mainstream working people's party for its own ends. I loathe the BNP and feel sad that people are falling for its easy promises. A BNP retard government probably wouldn't be much different from Kim Jong Il's North Korean regime imo.

That being said, the problem for most isn't immigration itself, but mass immigration where millions of people come to live in a country in a short period of time. Mass immigration can lead to civil strife, riots, segregation, etc. Nasty stuff. Mass immigration is a non racial issue, and many British subjects of non-white origin are also concerned about this. For example, the Christian Party, whose leader is black and whose supporters are mainly black have a policy of "Increased restrictions on immigration."

the people who moan about eastern europeans coming to britain (=england) are the same people that buy houses on the coast in spain and never bother learning a word of spanish and expecting the spanish to bend over backwards to accommodate them.

classic plebian doublethink.

so fuck 'em all, basically.

  Quote

EU legislation means that anyone from any EU country can come to live and work in Britain with the same rights as British citizens. What happened was that many skilled Polish people came here and worked in skilled working class jobs for cheaper wages than people here.

Yeah it's great, I have a UK passport and thus I can work anywhere in the EU. When labour can flow like capital, we'll have seen some progress.

When those Polish people came, were they working for under minimum wage?

  On 5/2/2010 at 6:44 PM, chenGOD said:

  Quote

EU legislation means that anyone from any EU country can come to live and work in Britain with the same rights as British citizens. What happened was that many skilled Polish people came here and worked in skilled working class jobs for cheaper wages than people here.

 

Yeah it's great, I have a UK passport and thus I can work anywhere in the EU. When labour can flow like capital, we'll have seen some progress.

When those Polish people came, were they working for under minimum wage?

Yes for cash in hand.

So you punish the businesses who are breaking the law.

Which is a lot easier than trying to get the people who are (as if a British citizen never worked for cash in hand).

  On 5/3/2010 at 4:54 AM, chenGOD said:

So you punish the businesses who are breaking the law.

Which is a lot easier than trying to get the people who are (as if a British citizen never worked for cash in hand).

Precisely, and yeah I have certainly worked for cash in hand, in fact all of the employees of that company were paid cash in hand direct from the management.

Its still easy to get round the minimum wage. A few developers I know have sacked their staff and reemployed them at well under minimum wage contract work.

the onus is still on the government to crack down on employers who abuse the law.

Stifling immigration is again, a convenient scapegoat for any number of social ills.

chengod, what immigration policy would you favour for the uk? open borders, stricter control, or what kind would you prefer?

open borders for everywhere. When labour can flow as freely as capital, some progress will have been made.

And since I don't want to do to much thinking, here's an excellent link. Please do me the courtesy of reading it before you reply, much as I read that article you posted before I replied.

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/the-case-for-open-immigration-a-qa-with-philippe-legrain/

ok man. cheers for debating without namecalling or any low tactics :-) appreciated

think this thread is a bit dead now, the other one might still have some mileage hehe

safe

ad hominem has no place in a debate over something as serious as immigration policy.

now if you were to say "night", on the other hand...

so has this BIGOT thing blown over? what is next in the theatre of british political horse racing?

  On 5/3/2010 at 7:42 AM, chunky said:

ok man. cheers for debating without namecalling or any low tactics :-) appreciated

think this thread is a bit dead now, the other one might still have some mileage hehe

safe

can i ask... you obviously have an interest in politics... why do you choose not to vote? d'you think it's pointless?