plaid Should The Black Dog (In it's Current Incarnation) be Featured In This Subforum?

SPD brought up the idea of having a The Black Dog subforum, and while I haven't personally checked out their current work, I thought since they were the progenitors of Plaid, perhaps rather than feature them in their own subforum, we 'add' them to this subforum since there is some overlap.

Have you say and vote, and let's see where this goes...

Makes sense to me to include Plaid and The Black Dog in the same subforum. TBD have been prolific enough over the years, have the history and have generated a fair bit of discussion on WATMM lately. I agree there's enough overlap, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who appreciate both.

Definitely.

hmmmmm, i'd say ask Plaid, as they have a link to this sub-forum on their site, so they must check it out from time to time. also why not ask tBd if they want to be lumped in with Plaid, as i know they read here too (ask Jowonio :). ..but tbh i doubt they'd approve.

it's a weird one, because Plaid started tBd with Ken Downie, but now Plaid are "something altogether different.. and much bigger". (haha, Spanners quote :P )

personally i don't think they should be included. no offence to the current BD, tho. but it's not really fair on either Plaid OR tBd. they're 2 completely seperate entities now. if they (downie/handly/turner) were still good friends and still collaborated it would seem fair to include them..... but to my knowledge they're not.

i don't think either Plaid or tBd would really like it, imho. but whatever........ :)

:my 2 cents:

yes i miss many threads dedicated to TBD on the plaid forum thinking the plaid forum was only dedicated to plaid. some greats recent thread on TBD (93-95)on the plaid forum.

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:13 PM, sirch said:

hmmmmm, i'd say ask Plaid, as they have a link to this sub-forum on their site, so they must check it out from time to time. also why not ask tBd if they want to be lumped in with Plaid, as i know they read here too (ask Jowonio :). ..but tbh i doubt they'd approve.

 

it's a weird one, because Plaid started tBd with Ken Downie, but now Plaid are "something altogether different.. and much bigger". (haha, Spanners quote :P )

 

personally i don't think they should be included. no offence to the current BD, tho. but it's not really fair on either Plaid OR tBd. they're 2 completely seperate entities now. if they (downie/handly/turner) were still good friends and still collaborated it would seem fair to include them..... but to my knowledge they're not.

 

i don't think either Plaid or tBd would really like it, imho. but whatever........ :)

 

 

:my 2 cents:

Thanks for the thoughtful input - I sort of agree that while Plaid owes it's genesis to tBD, Plaid has evolved into it's own entity and tBD has regenerated into it's own creature as well. The thing is, tBD does have the musical history behind it, would having their own subforum really generate that much traffic in terms of discussion? I'd like to think that anyone into Plaid or getting into Plaid would invariably check out tBD as well, and be interested in the brief overlap and history these two groups shared.

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:23 PM, k h o v said:

some greats recent thread on TBD (93-95)on the plaid forum.

lol, this is a funny topic. and could go round in circles forever. :)

but yeah i agree there's been some good threads on THE ORIGINAL early 90's Black Dog, recently, on this here Plaid forum. :)

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:23 PM, Joyrex said:

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:13 PM, sirch said:

hmmmmm, i'd say ask Plaid, as they have a link to this sub-forum on their site, so they must check it out from time to time. also why not ask tBd if they want to be lumped in with Plaid, as i know they read here too (ask Jowonio :). ..but tbh i doubt they'd approve.

 

it's a weird one, because Plaid started tBd with Ken Downie, but now Plaid are "something altogether different.. and much bigger". (haha, Spanners quote :P )

 

personally i don't think they should be included. no offence to the current BD, tho. but it's not really fair on either Plaid OR tBd. they're 2 completely seperate entities now. if they (downie/handly/turner) were still good friends and still collaborated it would seem fair to include them..... but to my knowledge they're not.

 

i don't think either Plaid or tBd would really like it, imho. but whatever........ :)

 

 

:my 2 cents:

 

Thanks for the thoughtful input - I sort of agree that while Plaid owes it's genesis to tBD, Plaid has evolved into it's own entity and tBD has regenerated into it's own creature as well. The thing is, tBD does have the musical history behind it, would having their own subforum really generate that much traffic in terms of discussion? I'd like to think that anyone into Plaid or getting into Plaid would invariably check out tBD as well, and be interested in the brief overlap and history these two groups shared.

If there's really a necessity of keeping discussion, maybe we shouldn't have a TBD subforum.

But there's been plenty of threads lately and even considering the past threads, TBD has always been a motif of conversation on WATMM. Also i have to remind people that TBD are still active and i guess that the new subforum would bring some new threads, just because of its existence.

..and btw i don't mean that this thread is funny. because it's a fair thread. i just mean the whole topic of tBd/Plaid history is funny. you'd think people would get it by now! but there's so much diss-info out there, still. it's a shame. i kinda feel sorry for Plaid! and for the newest members of tBd.

maaaaan, woulda been so much easier if Downie just came up with a new name after the Music for Adverts LP, imho.

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:59 PM, sirch said:

..and btw i don't mean that this thread is funny. because it's a fair thread. i just mean the whole topic of tBd/Plaid history is funny. you'd think people would get it by now! but there's so much diss-info out there, still. it's a shame. i kinda feel sorry for Plaid! and for the newest members of tBd.

maaaaan, woulda been so much easier if Downie just came up with a new name after the Music for Adverts LP, imho.

The White Cat?

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:51 PM, ruiagnelo said:

Also i have to remind people that TBD are still active and i guess that the new subforum would bring some new threads, just because of its existence.

yeah mate but they're active as a new lineup. different people. nothing at all to do with Plaid anymore!

it's almost like a new band, really. but with the name of an old band, that Ed & Andy started with Ken.

like i said above, it's a weird one.

as a big Plaid fan, and tbph, not much of a recent BD fan, i don't think the current BD should be thrown in with Plaid. but that's just me.

i'll go along with whatever is decided by everyone else and Joyrex... :)

  On 5/17/2010 at 11:06 PM, Joyrex said:

  On 5/17/2010 at 10:59 PM, sirch said:

..and btw i don't mean that this thread is funny. because it's a fair thread. i just mean the whole topic of tBd/Plaid history is funny. you'd think people would get it by now! but there's so much diss-info out there, still. it's a shame. i kinda feel sorry for Plaid! and for the newest members of tBd.

maaaaan, woulda been so much easier if Downie just came up with a new name after the Music for Adverts LP, imho.

 

The White Cat?

The Blue Badger. LOL

i used to have nightmares about "the blue badger" when i was a kid.... he wasn't actually a badger, tho, technically. :)

I agree whole heartedly that there should NOT be a forum for the curent outfit that is tBd.

What Sirch said

The Plaid forum more than makes up for the abcense of thee original BDP forum..

Besides, the post production and majority of tracks consisted of the midas touch of Ed and Andy excluding their pseudenoms. They were the most productive.. prolific!

The passion, love that us people have for the original Black Dog are spoken and shared throughout the Plaid forum which is sufficent and relevant as it it were their 2/3rds of brain that made TBD.. not Ken + 2 guys who are clearly in a different mindpark than that of Ed and Andy.

So, my point... The Love that has blossomed over the years for The Black Dog were down to Andy, Ed and Ken period!

So why should there be a forum here in watmm where the current line up Ken + 2 or anybody else for that matter reside here in watmm and reap credit which aint due to them??! :)

Ken shoudve just folded the name TBD and let it live on as legendary instead of tagging 2 stray rabbid dugs onto his back and giving a badname.. blah!

Not fair that The memories of TBD get trashed in a forum because 1. new listeners will tag new dog with old dog which equals average dog and 2. the thought of the dustbros nose in the air stealing the eyes and ears of the readers and ruining their ears - im pisseD! vote no :)

thats my 10$

  On 5/17/2010 at 11:14 PM, boredroom said:

I agree whole heartedly that there should NOT be a forum for the curent outfit that is tBd.

 

What Sirch said

 

The Plaid forum more than makes up for the abcense of thee original BDP forum..

Besides, the post production and majority of tracks consisted of the midas touch of Ed and Andy excluding their pseudenoms. They were the most productive.. prolific!

 

The passion, love that us people have for the original Black Dog are spoken and shared throughout the Plaid forum which is sufficent and relevant as it it were their 2/3rds of brain that made TBD.. not Ken + 2 guys who are clearly in a different mindpark than that of Ed and Andy.

 

So, my point... The Love that has blossomed over the years for The Black Dog were down to Andy, Ed and Ken period!

So why should there be a forum here in watmm where the current line up Ken + 2 or anybody else for that matter reside here in watmm and reap credit which aint due to them??! :)

 

Ken shoudve just folded the name TBD and let it live on as legendary instead of tagging 2 stray rabbid dugs onto his back and giving a badname.. blah!

 

Not fair that The memories of TBD get trashed in a forum because 1. new listeners will tag new dog with old dog which equals average dog and 2. the thought of the dustbros nose in the air stealing the eyes and ears of the readers and ruining their ears - im pisseD! vote no :)

 

thats my 10$

whole heartedly agree with Boredroom. here, here!

Well Joyrex, my final decision is that we don't need such subforum. Not that there's no topics of conversation, but that conversation can happen in the other general subforums as well.

a lot of other people have posted in this forum before. so what do other people think?

come on out of the shadows.......................................

So, while Im on the rant I may aswell state -

1. Cylob has some nice works(lobster tracks + couple more) but he doesnt belong in this neighbourhood of likemind artists.

2. uziq has also some qualities(autumn acid plus few more) but he doesnt belong in this neighborhood of likemind artists either.

If it were continue as such then why not include a Maurizio, T++, Funki Porcini, Neuropolitique fck even D.may and the detroit posse as far as I rate these people all do some incrdible moments, just like cyclob and pziq can do.. but on the other end of the scale you have

AFX, AE, PLAID, SQUAREPUSHER and.. erm.. BoC

Now these people are pushing bounderies on a far greater scale than the aforementioned forums including a subBlackdog(downiedust) forum..

The 4 big names ive listed are in a Differnt league to the others and there should be a line drawn

they are the music makers and they are the dreamers of dreams lol

i never really understood why there was a Cylob forum, tbh.. i don't think i've ever looked in there!

you make a good point. why not include a shit load of other artists, if you have a Cylob forum.

but if you wanna keep it top of the range, free-range IDM/ intelligent Techno/ Electronica, or whatever it's called... then yeah there should be a line drawn really, like Boredroom says.

i like BoC, myself.. but don't see what ALL the fuss is about. yeah they've made some wicked tracks, but they came late, unlike Aphex, Plaid, and Ae. they weren't driving around the UK in a van in 1989 selling their own records (like Ed & Andy were, in their early 20's!). come to think of it even Ae weren't signed til 1993.

anyways.... i guess it all comes down to whether there is or will be enough interest in a certain artist/s forum as to whether one gets created. there is some interest in the Downie/Dust BD, but probably not enough to make a whole sub-forum...... eh?

  On 5/18/2010 at 2:00 AM, sirch said:

i never really understood why there was a Cylob forum, tbh.. i don't think i've ever looked in there!

 

you make a good point. why not include a shit load of other artists, if you have a Cylob forum.

but if you wanna keep it top of the range, free-range IDM/ intelligent Techno/ Electronica, or whatever it's called... then yeah there should be a line drawn really, like Boredroom says.

 

i like BoC, myself.. but don't see what ALL the fuss is about. yeah they've made some wicked tracks, but they came late, unlike Aphex, Plaid, and Ae. they weren't driving around the UK in a van in 1989 selling their own records (like Ed & Andy were, in their early 20's!). come to think of it even Ae weren't signed til 1993.

 

anyways.... i guess it all comes down to whether there is or will be enough interest in a certain artist/s forum as to whether one gets created. there is some interest in the Downie/Dust BD, but probably not enough to make a whole sub-forum...... eh?

Wow, didn't know Ed and Andy were travelling in a van, selling their records. So many things i wish i knew about these men.

I really love TBD / Plaid over Mr. Richard D. James, Mike Paradinas, Cylob, Squarepusher, B12 or Boards of Canada, but i don't see that there is just some fuss about it these last ones, they really deserve all the credit for their music. They transformed IDM trought their vision, and result is oustanding.

Maybe Cylob doesn't really deserve a subforum. Maybe B12 deserve better, altought there is much more Detroit Techno in it than IDM.

I would say B12 deserve a forum for all they've done. definitely!

BUT, i doubt there'd be many people posting in it very often. doesn't mean to say they're not still good, tho.

i like a lot of Cylobs' stuff, but must confess to not having listened to any of it in approximately 10 years!

again, doesn't mean he's shit, but he just doesn't interest me at all these days.

i'd say Paradinas does deserve a forum. aswell as Vibert. but the current Black Dog? i dunno.

Ken Downie himself definitely deserves some credit somewhere other than his own forum, but is here really the place for it?

The votes are clearly going in favour of including current tBd in this forum. but i'm inclined to think that most of those were made by younger peeps,

and/or friends/fans of Dust, who (the later of which) should really be bitch slapped! lol. i'm just kidding. or am i... ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :P

i would just like to see The Black Dog included in some from of subforum somewhere is all. an acknowledgement.

As most of tbd discussions revolve around the original black dog line-up (ken, ed, andy) i see no point for a sub forum. My guess is, if the black dog had begun in 2005 with the new line-up (ken and dusts) they would hardly get a mention in the forum as the old and new black dog sounds are worlds apart.

as for ken ditching the black dog name after mfa-asf, i disagree. i thought the sound that ken was doing upto 2000 fitted the black dog mood perfectly.. but, i do agree that the black dog name should've been dropped when the new members joined, just to preserve the quality of the name. hint, hint :)

...i think things should stay as they are.

Well, right now, a slight majority of people think we should add tBD to this forum, but based on the responses above, I think it's probably not a good idea at this point, since as mentioned, most of the tBD discussions revolve around the old tBD and not the latest incarnation.

If looked at from the standpoint that the new tBD is a "new" band, they really don't have the musical backlog and pedigree when compared to the other artists featured here (and dislike them as you may, you cannot argue Cylob and µ-Ziq's influence on electronic music in the early and mid 90's).

we've put the idea out to The Black Dog themselves, and if Ed and Andy are reading this, perhaps they can put their two cents in regarding the matter, since they do link to this forum from their site - I wouldn't want to do them a disservice if they feel they shouldn't be 'lumped together' with the current tBD, especially if they feel the old tBD is not the same as the new one.

  On 5/17/2010 at 11:14 PM, boredroom said:

So, my point... The Love that has blossomed over the years for The Black Dog were down to Andy, Ed and Ken period!

So why should there be a forum here in watmm where the current line up Ken + 2 or anybody else for that matter reside here in watmm and reap credit which aint due to them??! :)

because some of us like the current incarnation of The Black Dog, and do not like Plaid?

i'm one of those people.

I dont think they're related any more. They've developed into something different then Plaid.

Having said that I don't know if their own sub forum would generate much conversation.

We still need a Wisp sub forum and a Venetian Snares( ) one.