Ken Robinsons says school kills creativity.

  On 6/19/2010 at 4:49 AM, lumpenprol said:

don't know how to read a map, or what's inside your head (what's a "brain"?)

i cant even get past this, its fascinating. are you sure they werent misunderstanding you or something?

  On 6/19/2010 at 3:39 PM, Kcinsu said:

Yeah, there is the socialization aspect, but certainly there are other ways to provide that?

And aside from the socialization aspect, your kid loses the experience of learning from a variety of teachers in a variety of ways. I understand that schools are woefully underfunded (especially in the US, but we're having our own problems here in Canada), still though, the majority of teachers still do the job they do because they love teaching.

Schools need to get away from standardized testing. It's absolute shite, and all it does is teach kids how to take a test.

  On 6/19/2010 at 3:25 AM, Kcinsu said:

if i ever have kids, id seriously consider home schooling them.

No! They will inevitably turn out FREAKY & CREEPY

unlike all of the other freaky and creepy kids I knew in school?

people are freaky and creepy in general.

  On 6/19/2010 at 11:13 PM, chenGOD said:

  On 6/19/2010 at 3:39 PM, Kcinsu said:

Yeah, there is the socialization aspect, but certainly there are other ways to provide that?

 

And aside from the socialization aspect, your kid loses the experience of learning from a variety of teachers in a variety of ways. I understand that schools are woefully underfunded (especially in the US, but we're having our own problems here in Canada), still though, the majority of teachers still do the job they do because they love teaching.

Schools need to get away from standardized testing. It's absolute shite, and all it does is teach kids how to take a test.

Very much truth here. I'm an education major, will be doing my student teaching next year. There aren't many teachers that are "out there for the paycheck" as they don't really get paid much. Most of the teachers I've met, and my fellow students are in it to help make the future better. We talk about these exact issues. How to avoid "teaching for the test" among other things is a big topic, especially since the advent of No Child Left Behind, and other high-stakes testing. This leads to the last 3 months of school being nothing but test after test (Iowa Basic Skills, State Math and Reading Assessments, etc) When you also consider that the first month (at least) of school is usually review from the last school year there isn't as much "educating" happening as there should be. I'm in favor of year-round school though, it's better for low socio-economic class students and the kids still get just as much (if not more) break time.

Interesting video. I definitely agree the whole system needs to be redesigned.

  On 6/19/2010 at 11:25 PM, Kcinsu said:

unlike all of the other freaky and creepy kids I knew in school?

 

people are freaky and creepy in general.

while this is true, i was homeschooled for a semester, and all of the activities where the homeschooled kids got together were... ugh. it's a new level of freaky and creepy. you know the gross boy that always sat way in the front of the class and wore sweatpants and picked his nose all the time and smelled kind of musty? they were pretty much all like that. except also really, REALLY christian. and i don't live in the bible belt or anything. super creepy and super weird.

also my best friend from when i was real little was homeschooled her entire life. i didn't see her for like 10 years, we went back to visit the town i grew up in and stayed at her place... she... oh man. it was scary. it was like she hadn't changed at all, she was still acting like she was 5. but we were 15.

We can't rid of education though because then we won't have schoolgirls in uniform.

creativity (and intelligence) levels at the colleges and universities i've attended were surprisingly low

  On 6/20/2010 at 2:45 AM, tht tne said:

creativity (and intelligence) levels at the colleges and universities i've attended were surprisingly low

well you either went to a shitty college/uni, are really judgemental and cynical, or have a ridiculous idea of "creativity and intelligence"

  On 6/20/2010 at 2:53 AM, 24ourange said:

  On 6/20/2010 at 2:45 AM, tht tne said:

creativity (and intelligence) levels at the colleges and universities i've attended were surprisingly low

 

well you either went to a shitty college/uni, are really judgemental and cynical, or have a ridiculous idea of "creativity and intelligence"

this is probably true, but i'm only talking about the majority

actually the academy that i went to for my a.a. was brilliant

currently though there are a lot of plagiarisers and slackers

  Quote

"There is no such thing as a neutral education process. Education either functions as an instrument that is used to facilitate the integration of the younger generation into the logic of the present system and bring about conformity to it, or it becomes the "practice of freedom", the means by which the men and women deal critically and creatively with reality and discover how to participate in the transformation of their world. The development of an educational methodology that facilitates this process will inevitably lead to tension and conflict within our society. But it could also contribute to the formation of a new man and mark the beginning of a new era in Western history[...]"

^ 'tis what we need.

this guy is brilliantly brilliant.

  On 6/19/2010 at 9:46 PM, Funktion said:

  On 6/19/2010 at 4:49 AM, lumpenprol said:

don't know how to read a map, or what's inside your head (what's a "brain"?)

 

i cant even get past this, its fascinating. are you sure they werent misunderstanding you or something?

Yeah, I'm sure. actually it didn't go exactly like that, as I didn't know the word for "brain" in Chinese myself. My gf (the clueless one) and I were watching "Six Feet Under" with a hooker friend of hers named Mong Yao, who has been staying in my apt for about a week. In the show, one of the characters dies from an "arteriovenous malformation" (AVM) in his brain. My gf asked me what happened to him, our convo went something like this:

her: "What happened to him?"

me: "He had an explosion of blood, inside his head"

her: "Inside his head?"

me: "Yeah, in the meat inside his head. You know, the thing you think with."

her: "What's that?"

me: "You know, the thing you think with, the thing your eyes are connected to."

her: "Hey, Mong Yau, what's the thing inside our heads? Do you know about that?"

Mong Yao: "Yeah, I've heard about it...I think it has two parts, a top and a bottom."

me: "Actually, a left and a right side"

Mong Yao: "Oh, that's right - a left and a right side"

Then I drew a few pictures for them, and gave them an impromptu lesson on the hemispheres of the brain, which side generally controls which functions, which functions are controlled by the cortex and which are controlled at the base of the brain, etc, lol.

  On 6/20/2010 at 12:05 AM, hautlle said:

  On 6/19/2010 at 11:13 PM, chenGOD said:

  On 6/19/2010 at 3:39 PM, Kcinsu said:

Yeah, there is the socialization aspect, but certainly there are other ways to provide that?

 

And aside from the socialization aspect, your kid loses the experience of learning from a variety of teachers in a variety of ways. I understand that schools are woefully underfunded (especially in the US, but we're having our own problems here in Canada), still though, the majority of teachers still do the job they do because they love teaching.

Schools need to get away from standardized testing. It's absolute shite, and all it does is teach kids how to take a test.

 

 

Very much truth here. I'm an education major, will be doing my student teaching next year. There aren't many teachers that are "out there for the paycheck" as they don't really get paid much. Most of the teachers I've met, and my fellow students are in it to help make the future better. We talk about these exact issues. How to avoid "teaching for the test" among other things is a big topic, especially since the advent of No Child Left Behind, and other high-stakes testing. This leads to the last 3 months of school being nothing but test after test (Iowa Basic Skills, State Math and Reading Assessments, etc) When you also consider that the first month (at least) of school is usually review from the last school year there isn't as much "educating" happening as there should be. I'm in favor of year-round school though, it's better for low socio-economic class students and the kids still get just as much (if not more) break time.

Interesting, my sociology prof last year has focused on education in society (lol obviously) for a long time, he's a big proponent of year-round education (which is basically what kids in upper socio-economic classes get anyways).

I think it's great that you guys are trying to get away from the teaching for the test. That whole "No Child Left Behind" thing is a retarded piece of legislation from what I understand of it.

Also a little bit lol at lumpy's story.

I'm impressed that you know which functions are controlled by the base of the brain and by the cortex.

  On 6/19/2010 at 3:25 AM, Kcinsu said:

if i ever have kids, id seriously consider home schooling them.

What about the importance of having friend in the same age bracket, developing social skills etc?

This can be difficult to accomodate when homeschooling.

I guess getting them into a sportsteam/whateverclub and living in a neighbourhood with kids might help this though.

I love this man and this talk specifically. But to say school kills creativity... it's almost like saying carcinogens cause cancer.

We don’t need no education

We don’t need no thought control

No dark sarcasm in the class room

Teachers leave those kids alone

Hey, teachers! Leave those kids alone!

:crazy: :crazy:

  On 6/19/2010 at 1:30 AM, essines said:

That's the best thing I've seen for years.

Newsweek article July 10th

The Creativity Crisis

For the first time, research shows that American creativity is declining. What went wrong—and how we can fix it.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/10/the-creativity-crisis.html

I'd highly recommend these two podcasts on this issue that I listened to just the other day. They're very engaging (although very long) interviews with John Taylor Gatto.

His official bio: "John Taylor Gatto climaxed his teaching career as New York State Teacher of the Year after being so named on three occasions. He quit teaching on the OP-ED page of the Wall Street Journal in 1991 while still Teacher of the Year, claiming that he was no longer willing to hurt children. Later that year he was the subject of a show at Carnegie Hall called "An Evening With John Taylor Gatto," which launched a career of public speaking in the area of school reform, which has taken Gatto over a million and a half miles in all fifty states and seven foreign countries. In 1992, he was named Secretary of Education in the Libertarian Party's Shadow Cabinet, and he has been included in Who's Who in America from 1996 on. In 1997, he was given the Alexis de Tocqueville Award for his contributions to the cause of liberty, and was named to the Board of Advisors of the National TV-Turnoff Week."

Here's the official description: "Is compulsory education good for anyone and what are the negative effects of our "modern" education system? Where did our education system originate, and by whom? What's happened to our educational system since the 1800s? Has there been an intentional effort by the elites and government to dumb us down? What do compulsory education and Pavlov's dogs have in common? Are children better off working, or being in school?"

(It's really not as dry as it sounds)

Part 1: "Another Brick in the Wall, part one"

Part 2: "Another Brick in the Wall, part two"

Hope it interests someone

  On 7/11/2010 at 5:30 PM, Jonas said:

  On 7/11/2010 at 5:01 PM, Rambo said:

What went wrong

capatalism

 

That's a little bit of a vague answer don't you think? Capitalism has some points which are beneficial to society and some which are detrimental.

It would be helpful to identify which points you feel are detrimental. For example, I would argue that while division of labour is an excellent use of human capital, specialization is, in the long-run, a huge negative feedback loop.

Also: gatto is a very interesting individual and raises a lot of excellent points, there are a couple of his full works online: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/index.htm

Interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU

warning: dont watch if you dont like seeing reverse blowjobs

education has a very real purpose, and it is completely social. you get used to meeting people from other backgrounds, you learn how to network, meet like minded people. and then it's pretty idiotic to say that higher education, at a university level, serves no purpose. creativity is up to you to bring to the table. certain areas, curricula, etc need to be overhauled, mainly for the sake of teachers with thankless jobs, but this guy's points are mostly moot.