mot/oversteps sonically ahead of draft/confield?

  On 7/20/2010 at 10:31 AM, Springymajig said:

I actually hated the sound design/mix on Draft for a long time but I'm starting to warm up to it. I think it was the first time since Amber that they've sounded so "synthetic"... Everything from Tri-Repetae through to Confield sounds like it was either dug out of the ground or a swamp, or built from actual machines and robots. But to me, everything from Draft onwards sounds more like it was made using synths and drum machines, albiet in a way that NO ONE ELSE possibly could. At first I didn't like this much, but now I kinda get into it.

 

It's kind of like they took electronic music as we know it and twisted it into something new and kind of disgusting but in a beautiful way.

I had the same reaction. When Draft came out I wanted everything ae to sound like Chiastic Slide's rusting pistonwerks mixed with Confield's alien, chaotic environments, and Draft sounded (to me, at that time) like ae implementing a formula of nearly-conventional but exciting funkiness progressing into a whirlwind of seizing drum machines and wood blocks.

Draft sounds incredibly organic to me now, but in 2003 it wasn't clicking. I mean, it was doing a lot of clicking, but not in my head. Definitely required the most gestation time with me (confield, in comparison, sucked me right in), and now when I relisten I can't even find the way back to my first impressions, as they feel quite wrong. The exuberant, way more upfront drum machine worship of Untilted must've reprogrammed me well.

still not getting it, eh watmm?

Maybe you should rephrase your initial thought. There have been posts in this thread discussing both sound quality and sound design, apart from musicality.

I agree with Awepittance's take on this one.

if i were to benchmark a room or speakers, i would choose mot/oversteps over confield and possibly draft.

i listened to oversteps/mot for quite a few weeks now; went back to confield and while structerly it was great, it lacked depth in the soundstage compared to ovmot.

draft didnt pop out at me, either (bad choice of word there, but you maybe get me this time

Hmm, I initially thought Draft and Confield do more with soundstaging/imaging than Oversteps, although I may need to reassess. Bine and vproc, for example, almost approach holographic in places. But I haven't really done a comparison of that particular quality (which is of course influenced by your sound reproduction equipment, too).

if there is one album in their discography that could benefit from a remaster it's definitely Confield.

love that album but it's always sounded kind of flat & 'tinny' to me.

of course Oversteps sounds much better quality-wise. i would expect their albums to get better over time as their knowledge / gear quality improves.

  On 7/20/2010 at 9:25 PM, baph said:

Draft sounds incredibly organic to me now, but in 2003 it wasn't clicking. I mean, it was doing a lot of clicking, but not in my head. Definitely required the most gestation time with me (confield, in comparison, sucked me right in), and now when I relisten I can't even find the way back to my first impressions, as they feel quite wrong. The exuberant, way more upfront drum machine worship of Untilted must've reprogrammed me well.

Yeah Untilted definitely had that effect on me... I think because it's a lot more accessible it eased me back into Draft. I still don't like it that much but I think I can finally start to appreciate it for what it is.

I think this quote would indicate that those who find Draft's overall sound or production a little harsh or "trebly" or flat... are in good company:

Steve Shaw asks: Why have you decided to return to more repetitive rhythmic structures in Untilted? Did you have dancefloors more in mind for this album?

RB: It’s hard to know when someone calls your stuff repetitive, because you know that it’s not. Compared to the last album, Untilted is warmer. It’s fuller, we’ve got the production a lot better. It’s wider, it’s tougher and more sensitive all in one. Does that make sense? I’ve always been into emotional, hard music.

I love the sound design and musical ideas on Draft and Confield, but I do find I've been spoiled by Oversteps in terms of how well they've used the stereo field, how well mixed it is, how full it sounds, and how it kind of jumps out of the speakers (as someone else has said.) I'd be interesting to hear an album as abstract as Draft and with the same complex sound design of Draft with a fuller use of the sound stage and all the widescreen 3D-ness of Oversteps.

  On 7/20/2010 at 3:41 AM, karmakramer said:

Oversteps is the most interesting progressive music I have heard in years. I have given it many many listens, while Draft/Confield are probably my least listened Autechre albums. I think the perfection of Draft's beats lead many to think it is sonically more impressive, but Oversteps feels like something that was slaved over. I can barely verbalize why its so impressive, but I really think its groundbreaking. Perhaps their best album yet.

You don't think Draft was slaved over?!?!!?!!??!

Draft always struck me as a bit too slaved over. I'm not a huge fan of the music on that album but I like the approach they took to the sound design (can't be more articulate as I don't make music myself, "analogue-y" and "textural" come to mind)

  On 7/21/2010 at 3:09 PM, Greg Reason said:

  On 7/20/2010 at 3:41 AM, karmakramer said:

Oversteps is the most interesting progressive music I have heard in years. I have given it many many listens, while Draft/Confield are probably my least listened Autechre albums. I think the perfection of Draft's beats lead many to think it is sonically more impressive, but Oversteps feels like something that was slaved over. I can barely verbalize why its so impressive, but I really think its groundbreaking. Perhaps their best album yet.

 

You don't think Draft was slaved over?!?!!?!!??!

 

Did I say that? I simply think people under appreciate the amount of effort that went into Oversteps

why you guys allow others to go off on tangents

That's how communication with other humans works, and how interesting discussions develop.

  On 7/21/2010 at 12:42 PM, Lianne said:

I'd be interesting to hear an album as abstract as Draft and with the same complex sound design of Draft with a fuller use of the sound stage and all the widescreen 3D-ness of Oversteps.

me too, there isn't much music like this. maybe some of R. Devine's stuff

on Oversteps the good thing i will say about it in terms of mixing is some of the new techniques AE brought to the table include very unconventional uses of reverb.

There are several times on the album where the reverb bursts only occur in one channel or focused on one side. This effect is rarely used in any music. You would think that always blasting the reverb in the stereo field equally would make it more 3d but i think the opposite is true. Sometimes it even sounds like the things that are verbed aren't even present in the mix in a 'dry' form, for instance a lead melody sound may appear to being thrown through a reverb but it could be them just verbing (100% wet) another patch entirely (playing the same melody), tricking the listener into thinking they are listening to a reverb trail from the up front melody.

Although everybody seems to be forgetting that Quaristice was the stepping stone so to speak for Autechre to be using massive out of control reverbs on a regular basis again.

goddam i love Quaristice so much now, it's practically my favorite AE album..... shit did i just say that?

no, but you like to hear yourself talk -- a lot

are you butt hurt that i disagree with you? I'll take a cue from your posting style and write only vague single sentences in the future

  On 7/22/2010 at 1:19 AM, baph said:

That's how communication with other humans works, and how interesting discussions develop.

wrong, he was clearly looking for a yes or no answer in reply to his question. why do you have to torture elusive's soul

  On 7/22/2010 at 1:37 AM, Awepittance said:

There are several times on the album where the reverb bursts only occur in one channel or focused on one side. This effect is rarely used in any music. You would think that always blasting the reverb in the stereo field equally would make it more 3d but i think the opposite is true. Sometimes it even sounds like the things that are verbed aren't even present in the mix in a 'dry' form, for instance a lead melody sound may appear to being thrown through a reverb but it could be them just verbing (100% wet) another patch entirely (playing the same melody), tricking the listener into thinking they are listening to a reverb trail from the up front melody.

Any specific examples you can think of?

i can really only hear the effect on headphones so i'd have to give some tracks another listen. the Plc immediately comes to mind

  On 7/22/2010 at 1:37 AM, Awepittance said:

  On 7/21/2010 at 12:42 PM, Lianne said:

I'd be interesting to hear an album as abstract as Draft and with the same complex sound design of Draft with a fuller use of the sound stage and all the widescreen 3D-ness of Oversteps.

 

me too, there isn't much music like this. maybe some of R. Devine's stuff

 

on Oversteps the good thing i will say about it in terms of mixing is some of the new techniques AE brought to the table include very unconventional uses of reverb.

There are several times on the album where the reverb bursts only occur in one channel or focused on one side. This effect is rarely used in any music. You would think that always blasting the reverb in the stereo field equally would make it more 3d but i think the opposite is true. Sometimes it even sounds like the things that are verbed aren't even present in the mix in a 'dry' form, for instance a lead melody sound may appear to being thrown through a reverb but it could be them just verbing (100% wet) another patch entirely (playing the same melody), tricking the listener into thinking they are listening to a reverb trail from the up front melody.

 

Although everybody seems to be forgetting that Quaristice was the stepping stone so to speak for Autechre to be using massive out of control reverbs on a regular basis again.

goddam i love Quaristice so much now, it's practically my favorite AE album..... shit did i just say that?

i really love the use of reverb in oversteps. especially when the melodies get really wacky like in see on see - there is so much reverb going on that the reverb tails form a chord based on all of the notes that are played (cf. the end reverb tail for most obvious example), not sure if this was intentional to make a lead instrument also play chords but it sounds fucking excellent.

i've never heard such controlled use of extreme reverb from anyone else - maybe drukqs-era aphex comes close, but since confield, autechre have been the reverb kings, imo.

  On 7/22/2010 at 1:37 AM, Awepittance said:

There are several times on the album where the reverb bursts only occur in one channel or focused on one side. This effect is rarely used in any music. You would think that always blasting the reverb in the stereo field equally would make it more 3d but i think the opposite is true. Sometimes it even sounds like the things that are verbed aren't even present in the mix in a 'dry' form, for instance a lead melody sound may appear to being thrown through a reverb but it could be them just verbing (100% wet) another patch entirely (playing the same melody), tricking the listener into thinking they are listening to a reverb trail from the up front melody.

 

Although everybody seems to be forgetting that Quaristice was the stepping stone so to speak for Autechre to be using massive out of control reverbs on a regular basis again.

goddam i love Quaristice so much now, it's practically my favorite AE album..... shit did i just say that?

Yeah that shit's all over Quaristice, from memory there's a bit of that in Untilted as well.

I don't know why anyone in their right mind could have problems with Quaristice. I stand by my claim that it's second only to Draft.

i dunno, quaristice just sounds a little too sketchy to me. not enough development!

  On 7/22/2010 at 3:58 PM, modey said:

i dunno, quaristice just sounds a little too sketchy to me. not enough development!

I had to make a few custom playlists from quaristice/quadrange/versions before it finally clicked with me and now it's easily among my favorite ae 'releases'. One of the things I did was to group ThePlclCpC, Tkakanren, IO (mons), chenc9-x and Perlence range3 together. That run of tracks is one of the best things i've ever heard ever. ever. EVER.

Just experiment with various track orders til somethin good happens.

  On 7/22/2010 at 4:37 AM, Awepittance said:

i can really only hear the effect on headphones so i'd have to give some tracks another listen. the Plc immediately comes to mind

when the plc clicked with me, it went off, i love it. so emotional

Awepittance, can you give an example song to illustrate 'dirty production'? I definitely would describe 'rew(1)' as having a 'dirty' sound, in how harsh the snares are, and how sloppy the beats and swing are.

The extensive use of reverb is actually something that has made it hard for me to get into Quaristice, Oversteps and Move of Ten, because I feel like often there is just too much of it. I agree it is controlled, in that they are clearly choosing when it sustains and when it closes off, but overall I think there is just so much reverb on so many sounds that the track becomes a muddle.