18 u.s. military veterans commit suicide every day

The fact that there exist such a high number of solider suicides, that my city (Boston) has ahomeless shelter exclusively for veterans, as well as the death toll should be enough to convince anyone that this is a foolish, foolish, system to be involved in.

Think of the money we'd save if we dismantled the Pentagon war machine. There'd be enough money to fund education without having to join the military.

Can we please stop calling these people heroes? Can we instead start calling them murderers who directly perpetuate the existence of large-scale violence in the world? Pleeeease?

Truly the mental conditions and conditioning of these soldiers are tragic, but the psychological consequences of participating in modern warfare are nothing new. My sympathy is diminished for anyone who knowingly participates.

  On 8/12/2010 at 3:42 PM, Wall Bird said:

 

Can we please stop calling these people heroes? Can we instead start calling them murderers who directly perpetuate the existence of large-scale violence in the world? Pleeeease?

 

they don't do that, you fucktard. do they kill? yes. do they "directly perpetuate the existence of large scale violence in the world?" no. they do not. that falls at the feet of the politicians. soldiers are pawns in their stupid game.

furthermore, the fact that you can't understand how someone in a dire financial situation, or someone who's been misled their entire lives might want to join the military shows how misled you are yourself. soldiers are still people to be pitied. do i think they're heroes? do i agree with them? no. are they murderers, out for blood? hell no. they're dumb kids who get caught up in a bad thing and brainwashed into being something terrible. they hold the least fault out of anyone in the whole stupid situation and for you to needlessly shift the blame onto them is the reason they're so fucked - the politicians will use them and cast them aside, and those who claim to have SOOOOooOOO much sympathy say "FUCK YOU MURDEROUS PIG" instead of, you know, helping to rehabilitate them.

in short, you're part of the fucking problem. chew on that for a bit.

won't let me edit so im just gonna throw this out there:

what you said is like saying that sweatshop workers are responsible for globalization, outsourcing, and the increasing prevalance of sweatshops. i.e., it's fucking ridiculous.

-Countries need armed forces

-Armed forces need volunteers

-Volunteers should be taken care of, during and afterwards.

I recall someone saying something retarded being written in some other thrad about Police being immoral because they enforce Laws that they did agree with.

For those "lets all hold hands and sing songs of peace" people. This is for you . Start living in the real world please.

  On 8/12/2010 at 3:45 AM, happycase said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 2:59 AM, tht tne said:

... my ample police record

 

where can i get me one of those?

For all the political realists in the crowd, can you please give me an example in the last 10 years that has justified having an offensive strike force?

Mercantilism and Cold War thinking should have died with the Cold War.

disparaissant: are they murderers? no. but watching the video that wikileaks released a couple of months ago, regardless of the legality of the situation the thing that really stands out is the guys in the chopper begging to shoot, praying that the guys on the ground pick up a weapon so they can shoot and then laughing while they do shoot. There's a fundamental disconnect going on there.

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:32 PM, chenGOD said:

For all the political realists in the crowd, can you please give me an example in the last 10 years that has justified having an offensive strike force?

Mercantilism and Cold War thinking should have died with the Cold War.

 

disparaissant: are they murderers? no. but watching the video that wikileaks released a couple of months ago, regardless of the legality of the situation the thing that really stands out is the guys in the chopper begging to shoot, praying that the guys on the ground pick up a weapon so they can shoot and then laughing while they do shoot. There's a fundamental disconnect going on there.

i don't see that fundamental disconnect as entirely their fault, is what i'm saying. odds are, they weren't born like that. they weren't raised like that. they were misled into joining an organization that essentially brainwashed them into being okay with killing people, on a conscious level. are there complete nutters in the military, people who - without boot camp, without that dehumanizing - would laugh while mowing down civilians? sure! but i would venture to say that the vast majority of the military is made up of poor schmucks who have had integral parts of their psyche broken down so that they could do the bidding of evil fuckers at the top.

and this all ties into the problem being brought up in this thread - they've been made to try to convince themselves consciously tha what they are doing is okay, or even RIGHT, but the human brain just doesn't work like that. this is why you've got PTSD and alcoholism and depression and all these mental issues with soldiers. dig?

oh and no, there hasn't been a justifiable reason to have an offensive strike force since world war 2, imo.

Fair enough, and you're probably right. I did have some friends in the US military who were nice people, and yes most of them are just scared kids. The thing that worries me though is the way the US military is trying to turn conflicts into video games as much as possible. Flying drones over Iraq/Afghanistan from a base in las vegas, controlling field robots using joysticks, this sort of thing. Combine it with the realism of today's video games* and there's a possibility for trouble ahead.

*please note I am in no way saying that video games are responsible for people becoming murderers/lunatics/psychopaths.

  On 8/12/2010 at 5:18 PM, encey said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 3:45 AM, happycase said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 2:59 AM, tht tne said:

... my ample police record

 

where can i get me one of those?

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:47 PM, chenGOD said:

Fair enough, and you're probably right. I did have some friends in the US military who were nice people, and yes most of them are just scared kids. The thing that worries me though is the way the US military is trying to turn conflicts into video games as much as possible. Flying drones over Iraq/Afghanistan from a base in las vegas, controlling field robots using joysticks, this sort of thing. Combine it with the realism of today's video games* and there's a possibility for trouble ahead.

 

 

 

*please note I am in no way saying that video games are responsible for people becoming murderers/lunatics/psychopaths.

yep. it seems they've realized that trying to disconnect someone from the realities of the battlefield is much harder than simply removing them from the battlefield altogether.

I almost offed myself and I'm a vet. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!?!?!?

  On 8/12/2010 at 7:55 PM, sneaksta303 said:

I almost offed myself and I'm a vet. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!?!?!?

You didn't try hard enough?

No one stole my ipod so I didn't have good enough reason.

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:03 PM, sneaksta303 said:

No one stole my ipod so I didn't have good enough reason.

fucking LOL.

  Quote

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain. Time to die.

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:03 PM, sneaksta303 said:

No one stole my ipod so I didn't have good enough reason.

You're a vet? You have access to lots of ketamine?

It would seem that my post was a bit cheeky.

  Quote

they don't do that, you fucktard. do they kill? yes. do they "directly perpetuate the existence of large scale violence in the world?" no. they do not. that falls at the feet of the politicians. soldiers are pawns in their stupid game.

Yes they do. They directly perpetuate violence by wielding a gun and offering themselves up as pawns to someone who will place them in a situation where they need to use it. By joining the military, especially during wartime, they are giving their consent to the war. If there is nobody to wield the guns and aim the cannons then the weapons will never be fired. Their presence and participation in the battle is the most direct instance of violence I know of in this case.

  Quote

the fact that you can't understand how someone in a dire financial situation, or someone who's been misled their entire lives might want to join the military shows how misled you are yourself. soldiers are still people to be pitied.

You're right. Although I currently live hand-to-mouth, my living situation is far from what certain people in the U.S. have to deal with on a daily basis. However, what they are accepting, in this context is blood money. Something that I find inexcusable.

  Quote

they hold the least fault out of anyone in the whole stupid situation and for you to needlessly shift the blame onto them is the reason they're so fucked - the politicians will use them and cast them aside, and those who claim to have SOOOOooOOO much sympathy say "FUCK YOU MURDEROUS PIG" instead of, you know, helping to rehabilitate them.

Based on my initial post it would certainly seem like I live in a world of black and white. However, you'll have to take my word for it when I tell you that I have significantly more tact and sensitivity in the presence of a soldier. The last thing they need is someone who they think that they are serving yelling obscenities in their face. My opinion stands, however.

I don't make attempts to sway them. Partly because due to the ineffectiveness of approaching them individually, partly because people who have been indoctrinated do not necessarily like being aggressively contradicted, but mostly because I realize that there are more effective ways of countering the praise bestowed upon this group.

#2

  Quote

I couldn't fucking believe a location of "U.S." for Wall Bird ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME MAN???

Please elaborate.

  Quote

But if you're an American, I would wager that it's impossible that you manage to not see any "fall-out" from any conflict in your community and understand that it's not as simple as spitting at a soldier and calling them a "baby killer".

Correct. I don't see any fallout. My above answer about my conduct also applies here. I know better than to think that shouting at anyone is gonna make the war end. What I want is a change in the widespread attitude that accepts that what soldiers are doing is somehow noble - although likely sincere - and worthy of praise.

  Quote

It's dumbfounding to me how cocksucking cunts like Wall Bird can be like a retarded Uroboros whereby they spout hateful rhetoric against those that allegedly "hated" the world because they joined the service when it's those very soldiers who are most desirous of peace!!!!! :facepalm:

Now you're putting words into my mouth. Have I made any mention of "people who hate the world"? Overall, I don't understand what you're saying.

Am I being hateful? Calling soldiers murderers is not hateful so long as that is an accurate definition of what they and other human beings are doing to each other; murdering. Sure, self-defense plays into it, but I kind of doubt that the U.S. military has a "self-defense only" kind of policy, if you know what I'm saying.

I don't doubt that a number of soldiers sincerely desire peace - and think that they're creating it- but I contest that their methods are unacceptable and likely perpetuating it.

Did I miss any points, so far?

  On 8/12/2010 at 9:44 PM, chassis said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:03 PM, sneaksta303 said:

No one stole my ipod so I didn't have good enough reason.

 

You're a vet? You have access to lots of ketamine?

I am a vet but I don't see how Ketamine has to do with anything.

that's certainly a lot more clear than your initial post, which came across as "LOL MURDEROUS CUNTS" but still. do you pay taxes? do you live in this country? are you spending every waking moment of your time protesting the war? yes? yes? no? you're giving consent to it as well, mate. the problem and the perpetuation does not lie on the shoulders of the soldiers. certainly not the majority. it lies with the politicians and the people who voted for them. blaming the soldiers for perpetuating violence is like blaming chess pieces because you're losing a game of chess.

god bless america, the greatest god given country on earth

  On 8/12/2010 at 9:56 PM, sneaksta303 said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 9:44 PM, chassis said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:03 PM, sneaksta303 said:

No one stole my ipod so I didn't have good enough reason.

 

You're a vet? You have access to lots of ketamine?

 

I am a vet but I don't see how Ketamine has to do with anything.

i normally wouldn't see the connection either except for my friend, a still active military duty person who served in afghanistan as a medic was on ketamine for a large majority of his downtime (although maybe he didnt admit to me being on K while performing duties). Him and his whole platoon spent a great deal of time injecting whatever they could get their hands on. Someday i want to write a short story about his experience predictably titled 'fear and loathing in afghanistan'

  On 8/12/2010 at 9:56 PM, sneaksta303 said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 9:44 PM, chassis said:

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:03 PM, sneaksta303 said:

No one stole my ipod so I didn't have good enough reason.

 

You're a vet? You have access to lots of ketamine?

 

I am a vet but I don't see how Ketamine has to do with anything.

Animal tranquillizers? Now that I think of it they probably use something else. Still, I didnt know you were a vet thats pretty cool.

Veteran =/= veterinary surgeon

  On 8/13/2010 at 1:15 AM, Rotwang said:

Veteran =/= veterinary surgeon

:facepalm: Why didnt I make that connection. You might as well disregard anything I saw tonight. Ive been taking my pain pills and antibiotics too frequently.

I'm pretty confused about how the US military/government would go about making me fight in a war. Can't I say, fuck. no. fuck you? I value the enemy's life as much as my own, at least in principle, and you can fuck off you faggot dimwit unconscious testosterone driven bitcch! I'd much rather sit in jail than "serve" or get served by some massive collective paranoid delusion about death and dying and boundaries and motherfucking money, numbers that change on my computer screen, or little peices of paper ic an wipe my shit with. fucking nigsz