Robots: The Future is Scary.

  On 3/7/2011 at 8:28 AM, chenGOD said:

 

Pretty damn impressive. A couple of things, obviously the hair, a few facial ticks look really machine like - but it almost looks like they're on the far side of the valley....

wow. If you didnt explain what the video was about and showed that to someone, there's no chance they would realise it was a robot until it did a couple of weird movements.

  On 3/7/2011 at 3:49 PM, Rambo said:

  On 3/7/2011 at 9:52 AM, Babar said:

 

  On 3/7/2011 at 9:01 AM, MAXIMUS MISCHIEF said:

wheres the robot that is actually useful?

 

inside factories

 

lol i was going to say the same thing. You should speak to all the unemployed people if you want to know about useful robots.

i don't think this is that simple. Economics.

Also, it seems like we're heading toward a sort of robotic golden age : nobody has to work, the robots can do everything. How is the transition supposed to occur ?

sentient robots converting to radical islam and becoming terrorists

in space

  On 9/18/2010 at 7:02 AM, chaosmachine said:

"It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead."

necessity is the mother of invention

For all the great advancements in robot technology, they still walk like they are having a whiteout from some really good buds.

Robotic golden age my butt. If people stop working entirely and put the creative endeavors of the world in the hands of autonomous calculating machines, we're fucking doomed.

Vote President Bot 2024

we're gonna have a butlerian jihad anyway after that!

  On 3/8/2011 at 4:14 PM, luke viia said:

Robotic golden age my butt. If people stop working entirely and put the creative endeavors of the world in the hands of autonomous calculating machines, we're fucking doomed.

 

 

Vote President Bot 2024

It all depends if you think the way we do things now is the only way things can be done. I refuse to believe that the capitalism we have right now is the only way of doing things. I think it's probably going to be a long time before all jobs disappear, if ever, but i think it's only matter of time before say, 75% of the jobs that exist right now disappear. New jobs are always being created but i think even most of them are going to be taken by machines too.

Well, I agree that we can eliminate a ton of the things we currently call "jobs" (like being a janitor or a drive-thru window clerk), but I'm also of the belief that people need to work in order to feel fulfilled. We don't need to work shitty jobs - everyone hates that - but gaining a skill set and putting it to use is something that I personally value very much, and if I fail to put myself to good use in one way or another each day, I start to feel useless/depressed pretty quick.

The only people I know that are completely against the idea of work in any form are A) teenagers, B) anarchists (often teenagers), and potheads (often mental teenagers). Even if no one has a "job," the idea that we can all sit around just doing whatever we want and remain content sounds impossible to me.... i dunno though.

specialization has killed our community spirit and isolated us from each other. many of us are hypocrites, we are the robots and we support (whether it be directly or otherwise) the same things we abhor.

the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

  On 3/8/2011 at 4:32 PM, luke viia said:

Well, I agree that we can eliminate a ton of the things we currently call "jobs" (like being a janitor or a drive-thru window clerk), but I'm also of the belief that people need to work in order to feel fulfilled. We don't need to work shitty jobs - everyone hates that - but gaining a skill set and putting it to use is something that I personally value very much, and if I fail to put myself to good use in one way or another each day, I start to feel useless/depressed pretty quick.

 

The only people I know that are completely against the idea of work in any form are A) teenagers, B) anarchists (often teenagers), and potheads (often mental teenagers). Even if no one has a "job," the idea that we can all sit around just doing whatever we want and remain content sounds impossible to me.... i dunno though.

I know what you mean. I think what you are really getting at is as you said: "gaining a skill set and putting it to use". That's the bottom line really, whether you define it as a job or not. I'd include just being creative or volunteering or whatever as long as you're not just wasting away. The question is really, would people do anything if they weren't paid and i actually think they would for the most part. As you even said yourself if you aren't making yourself useful, you start to feel useless/depressed pretty quickly and i think lots of others are the same.

I actually think much of the internet is a pretty amazing example of what people will do without being paid. Look at the amount of unpaid hours and effort that has gone into creating wikipedia, it's mindboggling and it's still being updated minute by minute by people who aren't being forced at gunpoint to do that work. Sometimes i dont think people are given enough credit. Look at the amount carers and volunteers we have that are doing work for free even in a world where paid work is still necessary to survive.

So yeah, it's not that i feel sure about what's going to happen but i dont think it'll be the end of us, far from it.

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:35 PM, troon said:

the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

i don't think you are really 'programming' a kid by asking her/his wishes for the future. you are actually giving them a bit of freedom.

some parents however, try to program their children right from the beginning. those children usually grow to make something for a living that they really don't like. somehow, those are the robots.

I think we see eye-to-eye here, Rambo. I was being facetious earlier when I said "If... then we're fucking doomed." My original point, however poorly expressed, was just that if a "robotic golden age" comes upon us and no one has to work, I am fairly certain that humans will find new things to work on, and create new fields of inquiry. As you say, it depends on what you define as a job. By no means am I opposed to robots and humans co-existing. :P

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:35 PM, troon said:

specialization has killed our community spirit and isolated us from each other. many of us are hypocrites, we are the robots and we support (whether it be directly or otherwise) the same things we abhor.

 

the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

troon, I am not in favor of heavy specialization (that's one of my only issues with modern science - it has begun to split itself into so many fields that they often have trouble communicating with one another), but I don't think it's harmful to ask a child what he or she wants to be when they grow up. It's not as if that question has the stipulation "Once you answer, you've made your decision and you can't turn back." I was asked that question plenty of times as a kid, and I had no idea what the answer was, so I just day-dreamed about potential cool stuff I could do as an adult... none of my ideas have come to fruition so far but I think it was a healthy exercise in imagining possible futures.

As for your other statements, yes of course we (people) are hypocrites. The mind is very good at tricking itself, but we are not "robots" in the sense that actual robots are robots. And humans do not abhor anything universally. Everyone has a different take on existence. It is this bizarre clumping of mindsets that you are so fond of that makes your vague arguments self-destruct. If you want, tell me what particular thing all humans abhor. Death? No, some people are excited by it and look forward to it. Hatred? No, some people openly express their own rage. Not even something like genocide is abhorred by everyone.

As for the community spirit you mentioned, you're going to have to be more specific. I have a sense of community and loyalty to those around me, though I'm not sure it could be called a spirit. Claiming that such a thing is dead is baseless - you do not know what kind of community spirit other people have, nor can you tell me that it ever existed in a fully realized state in all humans. Word?

  On 9/20/2010 at 12:58 AM, zazen said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5g33S0Gzo

lol

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:58 PM, luke viia said:

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:35 PM, troon said:

specialization has killed our community spirit and isolated us from each other. many of us are hypocrites, we are the robots and we support (whether it be directly or otherwise) the same things we abhor.

 

the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

 

 

troon, I am not in favor of heavy specialization (that's one of my only issues with modern science - it has begun to split itself into so many fields that they often have trouble communicating with one another), but I don't think it's harmful to ask a child what he or she wants to be when they grow up. It's not as if that question has the stipulation "Once you answer, you've made your decision and you can't turn back." I was asked that question plenty of times as a kid, and I had no idea what the answer was, so I just day-dreamed about potential cool stuff I could do as an adult... none of my ideas have come to fruition so far but I think it was a healthy exercise in imagining possible futures.

 

As for your other statements, yes of course we (people) are hypocrites. The mind is very good at tricking itself, but we are not "robots" in the sense that actual robots are robots. And humans do not abhor anything universally. Everyone has a different take on existence. It is this bizarre clumping of mindsets that you are so fond of that makes your vague arguments self-destruct. If you want, tell me what particular thing all humans abhor. Death? No, some people are excited by it and look forward to it. Hatred? No, some people openly express their own rage. Not even something like genocide is abhorred by everyone.

 

As for the community spirit you mentioned, you're going to have to be more specific. I have a sense of community and loyalty to those around me, though I'm not sure it could be called a spirit. Claiming that such a thing is dead is baseless - you do not know what kind of community spirit other people have, nor can you tell me that it ever existed in a fully realized state in all humans. Word?

re science being overspecialised, there isn't really much alternative. the volume of human knowledge is absolutely immense these days. it's akin to exploring a vast ocean with a small number of boats - to explore it fully, the boats have to split up and each explore their own smaller part of the ocean.

and community spirit - troon you're being vacuous innit. there's a huge community spirit where i'm from. you probably just mean the commuter suburbia you probably grew up in. it's not overspecialisation that did that, but people putting their attaining of the middle-class commuter ideal before their relationships with friends and family. or something.

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:42 PM, ruiagnelo said:

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:35 PM, troon said:

the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

i don't think you are really 'programming' a kid by asking her/his wishes for the future. you are actually giving them a bit of freedom. some parents however, try to program their children right from the beginning. those children usually grow to make something for a living that they really don't like. somehow, those are the robots.

it's about breaking learned patterns of unwanted and frivolous dreams that are to focused on personal wants rather then universal needs. i think it's important for parents to

influence children's decisions, especially between the ages of 1-10 when the most critically essential building blocks of a child's future choices are being stacked. a child will inevitably be influenced

by those things in the world around them, why not be the largest part of that as a positive influence for truth and goodwill? we are dealing with so many parents that have lost

touch with the truth themselves that it will take much effort to break this cycle. what a mess we're in, it seems the only thing to do is build ones self as a pillar of

truth and influence all that is around, not worry so much about how overwhelming the lies are but just keep searching and pushing forward in the truth.

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:58 PM, luke viia said:

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:35 PM, troon said:

specialization has killed our community spirit and isolated us from each other. many of us are hypocrites, we are the robots and we support (whether it be directly or otherwise) the same things we abhor.the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

troon, I am not in favor of heavy specialization (that's one of my only issues with modern science - it has begun to split itself into so many fields that they often have trouble communicating with one another), but I don't think it's harmful to ask a child what he or she wants to be when they grow up. It's not as if that question has the stipulation "Once you answer, you've made your decision and you can't turn back." I was asked that question plenty of times as a kid, and I had no idea what the answer was, so I just day-dreamed about potential cool stuff I could do as an adult... none of my ideas have come to fruition so far but I think it was a healthy exercise in imagining possible futures. As for your other statements, yes of course we (people) are hypocrites. The mind is very good at tricking itself, but we are not "robots" in the sense that actual robots are robots. And humans do not abhor anything universally. Everyone has a different take on existence. It is this bizarre clumping of mindsets that you are so fond of that makes your vague arguments self-destruct. If you want, tell me what particular thing all humans abhor. Death? No, some people are excited by it and look forward to it. Hatred? No, some people openly express their own rage. Not even something like genocide is abhorred by everyone. As for the community spirit you mentioned, you're going to have to be more specific. I have a sense of community and loyalty to those around me, though I'm not sure it could be called a spirit. Claiming that such a thing is dead is baseless - you do not know what kind of community spirit other people have, nor can you tell me that it ever existed in a fully realized state in all humans. Word?

i had no idea when i was asked that question either but i was highly influenced by my friends and family and took on aspect of what was going on with me as themes in my life as i grew older.

this is what is so important is the healthy, righteous, pure themes for young children to draw from. the largest percentage of themes set in a child's

life will be set by family and friends and what their interested in already in their lives. this is true later on in life too. we all feed from each other,

this can be a good thing or as we are experiencing in the world currently, this can be a bad thing.

it seems that it is hard for human beings to let go of 'fun' things that are attached to other things that are unhealthy and this makes us hypocritical.

for example, we may hate what a certain shops ethical values are but we still by things from them or we may hate being sick but we love that

thing which makes us sick therefor we abhor the same thing that we support.

  On 3/8/2011 at 6:34 PM, ezkerraldean said:

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:58 PM, luke viia said:

  On 3/8/2011 at 5:35 PM, troon said:

specialization has killed our community spirit and isolated us from each other. many of us are hypocrites, we are the robots and we support (whether it be directly or otherwise) the same things we abhor.the question 'what do you want to be when you grow up?' programs children with tunnel vision

troon, I am not in favor of heavy specialization (that's one of my only issues with modern science - it has begun to split itself into so many fields that they often have trouble communicating with one another), but I don't think it's harmful to ask a child what he or she wants to be when they grow up. It's not as if that question has the stipulation "Once you answer, you've made your decision and you can't turn back." I was asked that question plenty of times as a kid, and I had no idea what the answer was, so I just day-dreamed about potential cool stuff I could do as an adult... none of my ideas have come to fruition so far but I think it was a healthy exercise in imagining possible futures. As for your other statements, yes of course we (people) are hypocrites. The mind is very good at tricking itself, but we are not "robots" in the sense that actual robots are robots. And humans do not abhor anything universally. Everyone has a different take on existence. It is this bizarre clumping of mindsets that you are so fond of that makes your vague arguments self-destruct. If you want, tell me what particular thing all humans abhor. Death? No, some people are excited by it and look forward to it. Hatred? No, some people openly express their own rage. Not even something like genocide is abhorred by everyone. As for the community spirit you mentioned, you're going to have to be more specific. I have a sense of community and loyalty to those around me, though I'm not sure it could be called a spirit. Claiming that such a thing is dead is baseless - you do not know what kind of community spirit other people have, nor can you tell me that it ever existed in a fully realized state in all humans. Word?

re science being overspecialised, there isn't really much alternative. the volume of human knowledge is absolutely immense these days. it's akin to exploring a vast ocean with a small number of boats - to explore it fully, the boats have to split up and each explore their own smaller part of the ocean.and community spirit - troon you're being vacuous innit. there's a huge community spirit where i'm from. you probably just mean the commuter suburbia you probably grew up in. it's not overspecialisation that did that, but people putting their attaining of the middle-class commuter ideal before their relationships with friends and family. or something.

by community spirit i mean the wanting to do simple things to help each other rather then instead concentrating on our personal dreams first and our own comfort.

you can't deny that many people are spending a large percentage of time living their own dream instead of creating the basic opportunities for other's

like food, water, simple housing etc. when i say specialization is killing our community spirit i mean that in focusing to intensely on one thing we are not

spending enough time on what everyone needs. when an artist for example spends hours, days, weeks scrutinizing his or her creation and another man

or woman is starving in the street there is a problem and this is going on everywhere right now, it is a disease and it is infectious like any other disease.

we are strung out on life's creations and experiences just like any other drug and many of us rip the world around us apart so we can fix.

  On 3/8/2011 at 10:50 PM, troon said:

by community spirit i mean the wanting to do simple things to help each other rather then instead concentrating on our personal dreams first and our own comfort.

you can't deny that many people are spending a large percentage of time living their own dream instead of creating the basic opportunities for other's

like food, water, simple housing etc. when i say specialization is killing our community spirit i mean that in focusing to intensely on one thing we are not

spending enough time on what everyone needs. when an artist for example spends hours, days, weeks scrutinizing his or her creation and another man

or woman is starving in the street there is a problem and this is going on everywhere right now, it is a disease and it is infectious like any other disease.

we are strung out on life's creations and experiences just like any other drug and many of us rip the world around us apart so we can fix.

don't see how "specialisation" is the cause of that. almost like you've slotted a random abstract noun in the dotted line in which the cause goes. may as well say "logging in the Amazon" is the cause.

actually it's just people who value personal wealth over social ties

what is really the great thing here is that troon is actually fabricating this viewpoint, as he is also sup and craig anderson. Isn't it just wild knowing the truth?

  On 3/8/2011 at 4:32 PM, luke viia said:

Well, I agree that we can eliminate a ton of the things we currently call "jobs" (like being a janitor or a drive-thru window clerk), but I'm also of the belief that people need to work in order to feel fulfilled. We don't need to work shitty jobs - everyone hates that - but gaining a skill set and putting it to use is something that I personally value very much, and if I fail to put myself to good use in one way or another each day, I start to feel useless/depressed pretty quick.

 

The only people I know that are completely against the idea of work in any form are A) teenagers, B) anarchists (often teenagers), and potheads (often mental teenagers). Even if no one has a "job," the idea that we can all sit around just doing whatever we want and remain content sounds impossible to me.... i dunno though.

no dude, if we all just sit around and feel good about one another everything will be cool as fuck. puff puff pass 420 for life plur.

fortunately, most kids are smarter than troon and realize that giving one answer doesn't doom you to wage slavery for life in one field.

human beings and their clunky fucking inventions. if we could only see what fools we all are

I wish you would stop using the invention that connects you to this website.

troon just might be a smart satire of transmodern universalism.

I'm going to do this, and I declare in advance that my opinions and rhetoric are quite fallible, if not (un)intentionally manipulative, more style than substance, etc. (in fact this statement is most likely a manipulative one):

  troon said:

it's about breaking learned patterns of unwanted and frivolous dreams that are to focused on personal wants rather then universal needs.

-implies that the culturally sensationalized image of individualism promotes a generally self-centered lifestyle.

-not a bad point when I think about it. Although it brings to mind that in our postindustrial society, the privilege of being able to do what we want (whether or not we know if we've been programmed), even at the expense of our fellow humans, is allowed.

-troon probably isn't down with that on an ethical level. It essentially isn't ethical.

  troon said:

i think it's important for parents to influence children's decisions, especially between the ages of 1-10 when the most critically essential building blocks of a child's future choices are being stacked.

this is what is so important is the healthy, righteous, pure themes for young children to draw from. the largest percentage of themes set in a child's life will be set by family and friends and what their interested in already in their lives.

-this would seem to imply a fixation on what would essentially be 'counter-programming'

-which, like any remotely defined belief system encouraged upon a child, has the possibilities to instill (pre-rational, absolute idealist) assumptions...the tools of intolerance regardless of how far they've been honed.

-'pure' and 'righteous' themes (which you haven't truly given examples of) would make sense to me if you mean 'pure' as in unadulterated by moral currents

-and example of which might be 'don't waste'...a theme that I think doesn't need political or spiritual motivations to stand up (although I'm breaking my own code by not describing 'why'...but I just don't want to right now)

  troon said:

this is true later on in life too. we all feed from each other, this can be a good thing or as we are experiencing in the world currently, this can be a bad thing.

-this stuff carries a lot of generational baggage. Maybe troon was raised by hedonistic babyboomers

-this for me would seem to imply that either troon was raised in a way that he is trying to make up for

or

-that he was raised by 'good' people to be 'pure'

  troon said:

it seems the only thing to do is build ones self as a pillar of

truth and influence all that is around, not worry so much about

how overwhelming the lies are but just keep searching and pushing forward in the truth.

-implies some kind of absolute and universally human standard that troon must believe is self-explanatory

-since he throws around 'truths' and 'lies' in droves

-it is hard not to compare the way this bit of writing uses words to that of a religiously motivated tea party fanatic

-using abstract, vague half-talk with hyper-referential bits that add up to some kind of 'meaningful statement'

-this is where the satire could exist, in that he previously states that the preoccupation with one's self is unhealthy

-so...logically...uh....focus on inflating your sense of personal self worth to levels of flagellating 'purity'

-and then impose it one the people around you

in this way, troon's polemical manner of encouraging universalism, moral absolutism, and possibly anti-teleology implies that the far left is just as susceptible to argument ad populum as any other socio-political subgrouping.

  On 9/20/2010 at 12:58 AM, zazen said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5g33S0Gzo

this is a huge leap forward in term of industrial robotics. Folding cloth had always been a tricky problem.

  On 3/9/2011 at 6:22 AM, chenGOD said:

I wish you would stop using the invention that connects you to this website.

yeah and capitalism/liberalism is a great thing.

  On 3/9/2011 at 7:16 AM, Salvatorin said:

in this way, troon's polemical manner of encouraging universalism, moral absolutism, and possibly anti-teleology implies that the far left is just as susceptible to argument ad populum as any other socio-political subgrouping.

though it is pretty easy to write off my statements as the clashing of someone oriented along more post-left anarchist currents against a persona which seems to encompass the green anarchist manifesto by the book...