Wikileaks: Next release is 7x the size of the Iraq War Logs

we all know its fucking true, this isn't some amazing revelation. \

even the ones that believe the distortions know they are distortions on some subconscious level.

  On 11/23/2010 at 8:35 PM, Awepittance said:

i don't think i have ever seen this much apathy in a single thread on watmm before

 

Joyrex, the claim that Wikileaks 'endangering' people or innocent of afghanis has been completely and utterly debunked. The pentagon tried to claim this about 7 months ago but then had to retract their statement.

do you have a source for that (honestly, i'd really like to read it)?

  Quote

It's also quite interesting to me that all the people in this thread who are downplaying Wikileaks act as if they have read all 70,000 or however many documents have been leaked .

Have you read all 70,000 pages, and have you fact-checked it and verified it's all accurate?

  Quote

You guys are basically only reading the media's interpretations of events, and if you can trust those since the NY times loves to tell us how little of a big deal these leaks are, then we have a problem. Critical thinking seems to be lacking in this mindset

We are? What are you reading?

Let me know when you can disprove that these 70k documents of leaks aren't a big deal. And pls validate the accuracy of your source information and cite all references. Because until you can do that, you have no business condescending members here about whether the leaks are important or not, or whether the media's coverage reflects the truth.

thanks

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

 

do you have a source for that (honestly, i'd really like to read it)?

i took these from actual articles from major sources on the net

  Quote

'We have yet to see any harm come to anyone in Afghanistan that we can directly tie to exposure in the WikiLeaks documents,' [Pentagon spokesman Geoff] Morrell said."

17 days after the SECOND major wikileak event, the Iraq files

source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkpoint-washington/2010/08/pentagon_undisclosed_wikileak.html

and here is an associated press story from statements by defense secretary Robert Gates and a senior NATO official

  Quote

The online leak of thousands of secret military documents from the war in Afghanistan by the website WikiLeaks did not disclose any sensitive intelligence sources or methods, the Department of Defense concluded. . . .

 

The assessment, revealed in a letter from Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sen. Carl Levin (D-Michigan), comes after a thorough Pentagon review of the more than 70,000 documents posted to the controversial whistle-blower site in July. . . .

 

The defense secretary said that the published documents do contain names of some cooperating Afghans, who could face reprisal by Taliban.

 

But a senior NATO official in Kabul told CNN that there has not been a single case of Afghans needing protection or to be moved because of the leak.

my response earlier in case you missed it:

the part at the bottom is the most revealing, if the government believed these people were in such danger why do nothing about it? There seems to be a strong disconnect between whatt the Pentagon says about these risks VS what they actually do, which leads me to believe that it's nothing more than a way to smear Wikileaks and discredit them (and it's clear how effective this smear has been)

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

 

Have you read all 70,000 pages, and have you fact-checked it and verified it's all accurate?

of this new leak or previous leaks (the iraq or afghanistan files) ? if you mean the new leak, from what i can gather it hasn't been released yet which was exactly my point earlier. Why so easily dismiss something as unimportant that A) hasn't been released yet and B) Is in the same vein of information as previous leaks which revealed things like the civilian death toll being lied about or torture and beating to death of prisoners by specific individuals. If these things are unimportant to you that is understandable, im not here trying to imprint my view on what's important. At this point I'm not sure if you find them important or not. It would help me figure out what you're specifically disagreeing with me on.

If you mean the previous leaks i've looked through a great deal of it, but i don't think a single human being could digest the entire thing, that's why i think people need to remember that the media is intentionally cherry picking information from these leaks, especially if they have like 10 huge stories about it the day they leak, how in the fuck could they possibly do enough research to have even half of the story?

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

We are? What are you reading?

i haven't read this leak yet and neither has anyone in this thread, that's kind of why it's so weird to me that so many people can dismiss it by seeing nothing first. Were they unimpressed by the collateral murder video?

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

Let me know when you can disprove that these 70k documents of leaks aren't a big deal.

sure thing, after they come out and all of us get a chance to read them i'll let you know. I'll try my best

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

And pls validate the accuracy of your source information and cite all references.

looking forward to it

  On 11/26/2010 at 4:37 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

we all know its fucking true, this isn't some amazing revelation. \

 

even the ones that believe the distortions know they are distortions on some subconscious level.

well sure on some level the american illusion of hope and prosperity is collectively crumbling for everyone (whether they are in denial about it or not) but i see possible positive outcomes from chipping away albeit small against that illusion

i dont see much positive coming out of this at all tbh.

this isnt the age of the French Revolution, there is too much technological detachment from society as an organism. we really are the perfect vision of a totalitarian society

last night i got into a huge argument with my family...they thought i was crazy for thinking the airport scanners were a BAD thing. this includes some of the most "levelheaded" (or so I thought) people I know, knowledgeable, one in particular wants to join the ACLU...

I really dont think Im overstepping it by saying we just need a little push and shove and we will be the next Nazi Germany.

I mean, maybe the end result has a microscopic chance at being positive in that we can start over, but it will be at the cost of millions of lives, and to admit that we are no longer at the top of the food chain in the world.

youve got to understand, I'm a fatalist because I work in academia, supposedly the last bastion of free thought in most societies, and I just see empty faces that can't wait to go home and watch Jersey Shore.

so is it out yet? haven't heard/read anything about it yet and im thinking it's being ignored by the media.

Is my browser completely cocked? Probably. Wikileaks' twitter seems frozen in time. For me, refreshes show the same "2 minutes ago via web" from hours ago as the latest update.

  On 11/26/2010 at 4:13 PM, futuregirlfriend said:

Is my browser completely cocked? Probably. Wikileaks' twitter seems frozen in time. For me, refreshes show the same "2 minutes ago via web" from hours ago as the latest update.

same here

"U.S. Prepares Allies for Embarrassing Wikileaks"

lol, but it's all Wikileaks' fault.

I've been so happy to have been living in China for the past four plus years. Best years of my life. Just figured I'd share.

Oh yeah, war something-something-mumbly-mumbly...

  On 11/26/2010 at 3:32 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

i dont see much positive coming out of this at all tbh.

 

 

this isnt the age of the French Revolution, there is too much technological detachment from society as an organism. we really are the perfect vision of a totalitarian society

 

last night i got into a huge argument with my family...they thought i was crazy for thinking the airport scanners were a BAD thing. this includes some of the most "levelheaded" (or so I thought) people I know, knowledgeable, one in particular wants to join the ACLU...

 

 

I really dont think Im overstepping it by saying we just need a little push and shove and we will be the next Nazi Germany.

 

I mean, maybe the end result has a microscopic chance at being positive in that we can start over, but it will be at the cost of millions of lives, and to admit that we are no longer at the top of the food chain in the world.

 

 

youve got to understand, I'm a fatalist because I work in academia, supposedly the last bastion of free thought in most societies, and I just see empty faces that can't wait to go home and watch Jersey Shore.

I'd say you'll be more like China is right now. Fascist (in the true meaning of the word, not how ideologically challenged children like to think of fascism) but only more so, as the corporations have a longer foothold in the States.

Is that for real about a family member who wants to work for the ACLU yet supports the scanners? That's fucking worrisome...

And I hear you about the fatalism part. Although I do meet some who are trying to go beyond just partying and jibber-jabbering about the next Harry Potter movie.

  Quote

UK Government has issued a "D-notice" warning to all UK news editors, asking to be briefed on upcoming WikiLeaks stories.

 

The D-notice is type 1 and type 5.

http://twitter.com/#!/wikileaks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DA-Notice

WHAT ABOUT THE RAPES

  On 11/26/2010 at 5:59 PM, chenGOD said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 3:32 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

i dont see much positive coming out of this at all tbh.

 

 

this isnt the age of the French Revolution, there is too much technological detachment from society as an organism. we really are the perfect vision of a totalitarian society

 

last night i got into a huge argument with my family...they thought i was crazy for thinking the airport scanners were a BAD thing. this includes some of the most "levelheaded" (or so I thought) people I know, knowledgeable, one in particular wants to join the ACLU...

 

 

I really dont think Im overstepping it by saying we just need a little push and shove and we will be the next Nazi Germany.

 

I mean, maybe the end result has a microscopic chance at being positive in that we can start over, but it will be at the cost of millions of lives, and to admit that we are no longer at the top of the food chain in the world.

 

 

youve got to understand, I'm a fatalist because I work in academia, supposedly the last bastion of free thought in most societies, and I just see empty faces that can't wait to go home and watch Jersey Shore.

 

I'd say you'll be more like China is right now. Fascist (in the true meaning of the word, not how ideologically challenged children like to think of fascism) but only more so, as the corporations have a longer foothold in the States.

Is that for real about a family member who wants to work for the ACLU yet supports the scanners? That's fucking worrisome...

And I hear you about the fatalism part. Although I do meet some who are trying to go beyond just partying and jibber-jabbering about the next Harry Potter movie.

yeah, its true for sure. I actually had to go up and tell her I was personally disappointed in supporting them. I even pointed out online the TSA guidelines, referenced the cast/prosthetic that you all did in this thread, and she still said it was a necessary evil.

what really gets my goat is that i pretty much view the American Revolution in a very idealist fashion, though my work is far more realist/factual...,but i know the ideological bias is there, and im pretty open about it.

but what gets me and is so upsetting is that these ideals were never followed through, that "everyman" could be actively involved in his government, to have the government truly fear the people, and the fact that this could have been a real possibility, there was a brief window in which the idealism of the Revolution, brief historical glimpses in which it was for moment here or there, a true and universal reality.

the failure is not the fault of the government, it lies with the individual, the individual that refused to acknowledge the importance of active protest and involvement in restraining government. i probably sound like a libertarian nutjob, but the mere fact that i seem so is disturbing in its own right.

seeing my family supposedly embrace "what made this country great", and then proceed to act as if the Constitution should be the most openly interpreted and ignored document on earth makes me want to off myself.

  On 11/26/2010 at 7:57 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 5:59 PM, chenGOD said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 3:32 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

i dont see much positive coming out of this at all tbh.

 

 

this isnt the age of the French Revolution, there is too much technological detachment from society as an organism. we really are the perfect vision of a totalitarian society

 

last night i got into a huge argument with my family...they thought i was crazy for thinking the airport scanners were a BAD thing. this includes some of the most "levelheaded" (or so I thought) people I know, knowledgeable, one in particular wants to join the ACLU...

 

 

I really dont think Im overstepping it by saying we just need a little push and shove and we will be the next Nazi Germany.

 

I mean, maybe the end result has a microscopic chance at being positive in that we can start over, but it will be at the cost of millions of lives, and to admit that we are no longer at the top of the food chain in the world.

 

 

youve got to understand, I'm a fatalist because I work in academia, supposedly the last bastion of free thought in most societies, and I just see empty faces that can't wait to go home and watch Jersey Shore.

 

I'd say you'll be more like China is right now. Fascist (in the true meaning of the word, not how ideologically challenged children like to think of fascism) but only more so, as the corporations have a longer foothold in the States.

Is that for real about a family member who wants to work for the ACLU yet supports the scanners? That's fucking worrisome...

And I hear you about the fatalism part. Although I do meet some who are trying to go beyond just partying and jibber-jabbering about the next Harry Potter movie.

 

 

yeah, its true for sure. I actually had to go up and tell her I was personally disappointed in supporting them. I even pointed out online the TSA guidelines, referenced the cast/prosthetic that you all did in this thread, and she still said it was a necessary evil.

 

what really gets my goat is that i pretty much view the American Revolution in a very idealist fashion, though my work is far more realist/factual...,but i know the ideological bias is there, and im pretty open about it.

 

but what gets me and is so upsetting is that these ideals were never followed through, that "everyman" could be actively involved in his government, to have the government truly fear the people, and the fact that this could have been a real possibility, there was a brief window in which the idealism of the Revolution, brief historical glimpses in which it was for moment here or there, a true and universal reality.

 

the failure is not the fault of the government, it lies with the individual, the individual that refused to acknowledge the importance of active protest and involvement in restraining government. i probably sound like a libertarian nutjob, but the mere fact that i seem so is disturbing in its own right.

 

seeing my family supposedly embrace "what made this country great", and then proceed to act as if the Constitution should be the most openly interpreted and ignored document on earth makes me want to off myself.

what was that word for holding two contradicting ideas in your mind at the same time, where the latter extinguishes the former but you still to purport to believe in the latter whilst espousing the values of the latter.

soz brain mush much nao.

cognitive dissonance?

but they're not feeling the dissonance, but you've given me enough wiki pages to churn through nao that i'll figure it out maybe.

ta

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

  On 11/23/2010 at 8:35 PM, Awepittance said:

i don't think i have ever seen this much apathy in a single thread on watmm before

 

Joyrex, the claim that Wikileaks 'endangering' people or innocent of afghanis has been completely and utterly debunked. The pentagon tried to claim this about 7 months ago but then had to retract their statement.

 

do you have a source for that (honestly, i'd really like to read it)?

 

  Quote

It's also quite interesting to me that all the people in this thread who are downplaying Wikileaks act as if they have read all 70,000 or however many documents have been leaked .

 

Have you read all 70,000 pages, and have you fact-checked it and verified it's all accurate?

 

  Quote

You guys are basically only reading the media's interpretations of events, and if you can trust those since the NY times loves to tell us how little of a big deal these leaks are, then we have a problem. Critical thinking seems to be lacking in this mindset

 

We are? What are you reading?

 

Let me know when you can disprove that these 70k documents of leaks aren't a big deal. And pls validate the accuracy of your source information and cite all references. Because until you can do that, you have no business condescending members here about whether the leaks are important or not, or whether the media's coverage reflects the truth.

 

thanks

No offense, but your willingness to trust whatever is presented to you is fucking disturbing.

  On 11/26/2010 at 7:49 PM, Babar said:

WHAT ABOUT THE RAPES

  On 11/26/2010 at 3:32 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

 

youve got to understand, I'm a fatalist because I work in academia, supposedly the last bastion of free thought in most societies, and I just see empty faces that can't wait to go home and watch Jersey Shore.

trust me i do understand, but please also understand i hold some level of idealism that positive changes can be made. and i have every reason to be just as fatalistic as you. I live right next to Berkeley and i see an Obama t-shirt an an obama sticker on someones car at least 20 times a day. The city that was the heart of the anti war movement is now completely lackadaisical & loyal to the president of the united states. People in berkeley get mad if you tallk bad about their lord Obama. Shit is depressing as fuck!

  On 11/26/2010 at 9:18 PM, Babar said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 7:49 PM, Babar said:

WHAT ABOUT THE RAPES

since the charges were dropped almost immediately, the accusations have become discredited

  On 11/26/2010 at 8:18 PM, chimera slot mom said:

 

No offense, but your willingness to trust whatever is presented to you is fucking disturbing.

that's impressive that you at least got that from his post, to be honest i didn't even know where he stood at all on the issue.

  On 11/23/2010 at 6:04 PM, plstik said:

huh? I always thought they never put anyone in danger, the media/army just pushed it that way.

*searches source*

at the beginning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pTl8KdREk

  On 11/26/2010 at 9:57 PM, Awepittance said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 9:18 PM, Babar said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 7:49 PM, Babar said:

WHAT ABOUT THE RAPES

 

since the charges were dropped almost immediately, the accusations have become discredited

new, less hysterical charges have been issued afaik

  On 11/26/2010 at 9:57 PM, Awepittance said:

 

  On 11/26/2010 at 8:18 PM, chimera slot mom said:

No offense, but your willingness to trust whatever is presented to you is fucking disturbing.

that's impressive that you at least got that from his post, to be honest i didn't even know where he stood at all on the issue.

I bet you guys are UFO believers amirite ?

  On 11/26/2010 at 8:18 PM, chimera slot mom said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

  On 11/23/2010 at 8:35 PM, Awepittance said:

i don't think i have ever seen this much apathy in a single thread on watmm before

 

Joyrex, the claim that Wikileaks 'endangering' people or innocent of afghanis has been completely and utterly debunked. The pentagon tried to claim this about 7 months ago but then had to retract their statement.

 

do you have a source for that (honestly, i'd really like to read it)?

 

  Quote

It's also quite interesting to me that all the people in this thread who are downplaying Wikileaks act as if they have read all 70,000 or however many documents have been leaked .

 

Have you read all 70,000 pages, and have you fact-checked it and verified it's all accurate?

 

  Quote

You guys are basically only reading the media's interpretations of events, and if you can trust those since the NY times loves to tell us how little of a big deal these leaks are, then we have a problem. Critical thinking seems to be lacking in this mindset

 

We are? What are you reading?

 

Let me know when you can disprove that these 70k documents of leaks aren't a big deal. And pls validate the accuracy of your source information and cite all references. Because until you can do that, you have no business condescending members here about whether the leaks are important or not, or whether the media's coverage reflects the truth.

 

thanks

 

No offense, but your willingness to trust whatever is presented to you is fucking disturbing.

No offense taken - where do I state that I trust anything or hold a particular viewpoint based on that?

  On 11/26/2010 at 11:58 AM, Awepittance said:

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

 

do you have a source for that (honestly, i'd really like to read it)?

 

i took these from actual articles from major sources on the net

 

 

  Quote

'We have yet to see any harm come to anyone in Afghanistan that we can directly tie to exposure in the WikiLeaks documents,' [Pentagon spokesman Geoff] Morrell said."

17 days after the SECOND major wikileak event, the Iraq files

source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkpoint-washington/2010/08/pentagon_undisclosed_wikileak.html

 

 

and here is an associated press story from statements by defense secretary Robert Gates and a senior NATO official

 

  Quote

The online leak of thousands of secret military documents from the war in Afghanistan by the website WikiLeaks did not disclose any sensitive intelligence sources or methods, the Department of Defense concluded. . . .

 

The assessment, revealed in a letter from Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sen. Carl Levin (D-Michigan), comes after a thorough Pentagon review of the more than 70,000 documents posted to the controversial whistle-blower site in July. . . .

 

The defense secretary said that the published documents do contain names of some cooperating Afghans, who could face reprisal by Taliban.

 

But a senior NATO official in Kabul told CNN that there has not been a single case of Afghans needing protection or to be moved because of the leak.

source : http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/16/wikileaks.assessment/index.html?hpt=T2

my response earlier in case you missed it:

the part at the bottom is the most revealing, if the government believed these people were in such danger why do nothing about it? There seems to be a strong disconnect between whatt the Pentagon says about these risks VS what they actually do, which leads me to believe that it's nothing more than a way to smear Wikileaks and discredit them (and it's clear how effective this smear has been)

 

 

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

 

Have you read all 70,000 pages, and have you fact-checked it and verified it's all accurate?

 

of this new leak or previous leaks (the iraq or afghanistan files) ? if you mean the new leak, from what i can gather it hasn't been released yet which was exactly my point earlier. Why so easily dismiss something as unimportant that A) hasn't been released yet and B) Is in the same vein of information as previous leaks which revealed things like the civilian death toll being lied about or torture and beating to death of prisoners by specific individuals. If these things are unimportant to you that is understandable, im not here trying to imprint my view on what's important. At this point I'm not sure if you find them important or not. It would help me figure out what you're specifically disagreeing with me on.

If you mean the previous leaks i've looked through a great deal of it, but i don't think a single human being could digest the entire thing, that's why i think people need to remember that the media is intentionally cherry picking information from these leaks, especially if they have like 10 huge stories about it the day they leak, how in the fuck could they possibly do enough research to have even half of the story?

 

 

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

We are? What are you reading?

 

i haven't read this leak yet and neither has anyone in this thread, that's kind of why it's so weird to me that so many people can dismiss it by seeing nothing first. Were they unimpressed by the collateral murder video?

 

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

Let me know when you can disprove that these 70k documents of leaks aren't a big deal.

 

sure thing, after they come out and all of us get a chance to read them i'll let you know. I'll try my best

 

  On 11/26/2010 at 10:21 AM, pulsewarrior said:

And pls validate the accuracy of your source information and cite all references.

 

looking forward to it

Thanks for those references above.

Just as you say no-one should dismiss these documents, also no-one should attribute any great importance to them, because we all don't know what the hell is in them or if it's important or not. You say

"im not here trying to imprint my view on what's important."

But by saying things like, "I cannot believe how much apathy there is here", you are most definitely doing that. You're telling us what we should care about. You stated yourself that you haven't read any of these documents nor proven that any of it is accurate - so why are you telling us what the hell what we should and shouldn't care about?

I'm not arguing whether the leaks are important or not - all I'm saying is to stop acting like a dick who thinks his opinions and sources are better than other people's.................as usual