South Korea buries a million pigs alive

  On 3/25/2011 at 7:30 PM, xxx said:

3. This is certainly fucked up but the "casual atrocities" of factory farming is some everyday shit. It's kind of like seeing a cruel mass execution when the Death Row conditions weren't any more tolerable.

this is what i was going to say but thought it was either obvious or too preachy. it's all in the delivery i suppose.

complicated issue once you go past personal choices.

  On 3/25/2011 at 10:42 PM, Adam Beker said:

Well yes. But they don't have consciousness. Computers process information too.

Fair enough, but plants are alive and computers to my understanding are not. So you would think that plants would have a desire for survival. If they have a desire for survival and process information, why would they not have an indicator for trauma?

They don't have brain. They don't have consciousness. They don't feel anything. They don't have desires.

I don't see how you can be so sure of that. Especially to say that they have no consciousness, I don't see what basis there is for that assumption. Their biology may different from ours, but that doesn't necessarily imply that they don't have similar mechanisms. I would imagine that anything that is alive has some form of consciousness.

Has Merzbow done an album about this yet?

yeah, somebody define consciousness here. we're all plants, basically. different levels of complexity, but in the end life is life. whether or not you want to take it for yourself should be a moment to money judgement based on what you understand.

i wouldn't eat unless you need nourishment. don't waste life.

and the perfect person would probably be a vegan. there's not really any way around it. based on what values/morals, i don't know. more or less common sense morals, from my point of view.

the least you can do is shop consciously for human non factory farm meat.

edit: for the record if i sound preachy i'm not. i've been making pepperoni sandwiches with this Boars Head pepperoni that i have left in the fridge. i feel guilty because i know for a fact they don't follow humane slaughter procedures. i'm pretty sure at least after some vague research.

these are things that we should probably strive for, to be conscious and elevate!!!

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:12 PM, vamos scorcho said:

and the perfect person would probably be a vegan.

Thanks bro!

  On 3/25/2011 at 6:18 PM, Iain C said:

  On 3/25/2011 at 6:11 PM, chaosmachine said:

  On 3/25/2011 at 6:09 PM, impakt said:

There's a difference between bugs and animals, probably the reason.

 

is it just the size? the ease with which they're killed and swept away? if humans were 100x bigger than pigs, would it be different?

 

please elaborate on your reasoning, i'm genuinely interested.

 

for the record, i haven't used ant poison (or any other nasty bug trap) and would feel pretty conflicted about doing so, even if i had a serious infestation.

 

but i still think there's a difference in the capacity of an ant and the capacity of a pig to suffer, feel emotional distress and physical pain. i'd do some research to back this up, but i'm about to leave work. it's the scale and the visibility of the suffering in this video that shocked me.

 

like i say, i try not to kill any animals. i don't crush spiders or swat flies, i put them out the window. i'm a vegetarian and i'll probably end up a vegan (like my girlfriend and many close friends).

Really? I'm a fucking Guardian-reading vegetarian, too. But those fucking ants get anywhere near my food I'm going to fucking massacre them all. Spiders are sent flying to vacuum cleaner heaven, too. Fuck small fast things. Look attractive or I'm going to kill you.

  On 3/25/2011 at 7:30 PM, xxx said:

1. All Asians have a flagrant disregard for life intended for consumption. This is a stereotype that is 100% valid and anyone, Asians included, would agree. More recently, love of pets that is similar to the West--dogs and cats as family--is catching on but this will take time. Japan seems to have come the furthest when it comes to not treating animals like shit but they still have all that dolphin blood on their hands so...

 

  On 3/25/2011 at 8:28 PM, eugene said:

i wouldn't go "all asians" but at least in china and possibly in chinas sphere of influence defeating nature and ruling over natural world was (is?) held to high regard, probably stems from the historical struggle against floods. it's even apparent in chinese traditional shrieky singing. so this might be one of the elements in disregard for animal life..

two of the stupidest comments I've ever read on here.

XXX take some time to think about why yours is ricky retardo.

chinese traditional shrieky singing? lol expert troll bro.

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:12 PM, vamos scorcho said:

yeah, somebody define consciousness here. we're all plants, basically. different levels of complexity, but in the end life is life. whether or not you want to take it for yourself should be a moment to money judgement based on what you understand.

 

i wouldn't eat unless you need nourishment. don't waste life.

 

 

and the perfect person would probably be a vegan. there's not really any way around it. based on what values/morals, i don't know. more or less common sense morals, from my point of view.

 

 

the least you can do is shop consciously for human non factory farm meat.

 

 

 

edit: for the record if i sound preachy i'm not. i've been making pepperoni sandwiches with this Boars Head pepperoni that i have left in the fridge. i feel guilty because i know for a fact they don't follow humane slaughter procedures. i'm pretty sure at least after some vague research.

 

these are things that we should probably strive for, to be conscious and elevate!!!

what sets humans apart from the other animals is that we can choose to deny our genetic programming. the pigs don't think on that level. for all intents and purposes, one pig is the same as another. losing a pig is like losing a man in mario -- the next one will be the same, until you run out.

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:06 PM, DerWaschbar said:

I don't see how you can be so sure of that. Especially to say that they have no consciousness, I don't see what basis there is for that assumption. Their biology may different from ours, but that doesn't necessarily imply that they don't have similar mechanisms. I would imagine that anything that is alive has some form of consciousness.

They basicly don't have the organ that is responsible for consciousness.

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:23 PM, hahathhat said:

for all intents and purposes, one pig is the same as another. losing a pig is like losing a man in mario -- the next one will be the same, until you run out.

I could tell the same about 90 percent of human populiation who are not only the same but also stupid, arogantic, egoistic, pig killing assholes. I'm a vegetarian but I'd eat them if they would be tastier and cheaper.

  On 3/25/2011 at 10:32 PM, Adam Beker said:

Plants dont have brains dude.

not as in the fucking organ, but everything has mind and represents a certain form of energy/consciousness that is manifest at multiple levels within as well as outside normal human sensory perception.

at thread: though i refuse to watch these lifeforms suffer. i can confidently say that these people involved are nothing but misery; created and embodied, recycled and re-consumed, disguised and unaware. they will eventually find themselves at the bottom of a very similar pit, and sooner than later.

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:42 PM, impotentwhitecapitalist said:

  On 3/25/2011 at 10:32 PM, Adam Beker said:

Plants dont have brains dude.

not as in the fucking organ, but everything has mind and represents a certain form of energy/consciousness that is manifest at multiple levels within as well as outside normal human sensory perception.

 

 

at thread: though i refuse to watch these lifeforms suffer. i can confidently say that these people involved are nothing but misery; created and embodied, recycled and re-consumed, disguised and unaware. they will eventually find themselves at the bottom of a very similar pit, and sooner than later.

Huhuhuhuhuhuhu.

Boy howdy is this thread full of people pulling shit out of their ass or what?

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:37 PM, Adam Beker said:

They basicly don't have the organ that is responsible for consciousness.

Neither do they have lungs, but they respire carbon dioxide into oxygen. I don't think you can do a direct comparison of our biology to theirs and assume that they lack the ability to perform similar functions.

  Quote

Researchers from Michigan State University have discovered that plants have a rudimentary nerve structure, which allows them to feel pain. According to the peer-reviewed journal Plant Physiology, plants are capable of identifying danger, signaling that danger to other plants and marshaling defenses against perceived threats. According to botanist Bill Williams of the Helvetica Institute, "plants not only seem to be aware and to feel pain, they can even communicate."

?

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/12/09/recent_studies_have_proven_pla.aspx

Helvetica Institute?

this thread is getting better and better.

carry on please.

carry on being....WATMM

Yar idk hence the "?" ..

The only humane thing to do (obviously) is to eschew eating any animal, plant, nut, berry, etc, and only eat yourself, a little bit at a time.

yes self cannibalization is the only way

here is a better source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=2&ref=science

  Quote

But before we cede the entire moral penthouse to “committed vegetarians” and “strong ethical vegans,” we might consider that plants no more aspire to being stir-fried in a wok than a hog aspires to being peppercorn-studded in my Christmas clay pot. This is not meant as a trite argument or a chuckled aside. Plants are lively and seek to keep it that way. The more that scientists learn about the complexity of plants — their keen sensitivity to the environment, the speed with which they react to changes in the environment, and the extraordinary number of tricks that plants will rally to fight off attackers and solicit help from afar — the more impressed researchers become, and the less easily we can dismiss plants as so much fiberfill backdrop, passive sunlight collectors on which deer, antelope and vegans can conveniently graze. It’s time for a green revolution, a reseeding of our stubborn animal minds.

 

--

 

“Plants are not static or silly,” said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. “They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk” through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. “These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals,” Dr. Hilker said.

I can't even tell you how happy I am that yet another thread I'm involved in has shifted to discussions of cannibalism.

  On 3/25/2011 at 5:16 PM, Iain C said:

A vision of hell:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGC9XtnHSU0

 

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/South-Korea-One-Million-Pigs-Buried-Alive-In-Foot-And-Mouth-Outbreak-Mass-Criticism/Article/201101115887024?lpos=World_News_Right_Promo_

 

you surely don't have to be a pale, malnourished vegetarian fairy like me to find this incredibly fucked-up.

damn, do they really have to just drop them in like that? are they trying to find every possible way to hurt them before killing them? i'm surprised they didn't brand them on the face first

in retaliation, can we take a bunch of asians and dump them in their own tomb?

  On 3/26/2011 at 12:19 AM, karmakramer said:

here is a better source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=2&ref=science

 

  Quote

But before we cede the entire moral penthouse to “committed vegetarians” and “strong ethical vegans,” we might consider that plants no more aspire to being stir-fried in a wok than a hog aspires to being peppercorn-studded in my Christmas clay pot. This is not meant as a trite argument or a chuckled aside. Plants are lively and seek to keep it that way. The more that scientists learn about the complexity of plants — their keen sensitivity to the environment, the speed with which they react to changes in the environment, and the extraordinary number of tricks that plants will rally to fight off attackers and solicit help from afar — the more impressed researchers become, and the less easily we can dismiss plants as so much fiberfill backdrop, passive sunlight collectors on which deer, antelope and vegans can conveniently graze. It’s time for a green revolution, a reseeding of our stubborn animal minds.

 

--

 

“Plants are not static or silly,” said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. “They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk” through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. “These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals,” Dr. Hilker said.

Yeah, I believe they communicate within themselves and with other plants via hormones. Perhaps these would in particular would form something akin to nervous system/pain receptors:

  Quote

-Salicylic acid - activates genes in some plants that produce chemicals that aid in the defense against pathogenic invaders.

 

-Jasmonates - are produced from fatty acids and seem to promote the production of defense proteins that are used to fend off invading organisms. They are believed to also have a role in seed germination, and affect the storage of protein in seeds, and seem to affect root growth.

 

-Plant peptide hormones - encompasses all small secreted peptides that are involved in cell-to-cell signaling. These small peptide hormones play crucial roles in plant growth and development, including defense mechanisms, the control of cell division and expansion, and pollen self-incompatibility [19].

 

-Nitric oxide (NO) - serves as signal in hormonal and defense responses.

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:37 PM, Adam Beker said:

  On 3/25/2011 at 11:23 PM, hahathhat said:

for all intents and purposes, one pig is the same as another. losing a pig is like losing a man in mario -- the next one will be the same, until you run out.

 

I could tell the same about 90 percent of human populiation who are not only the same but also stupid, arogantic, egoistic, pig killing assholes. I'm a vegetarian but I'd eat them if they would be tastier and cheaper.

that's a high school goth argument and i'm having none of it sir