iPhone tracks your movements

Read thread title, got excited, experienced disappointment upon realizing that iPhone wasn't keeping track of my bowel movements for me.

  On 4/22/2011 at 7:28 PM, chenGOD said:

Awepittance was being sarcastic.

People already buy it themselves. facebook has 500 million users, there are however many billion cell phones in the world (all of which can locate you by using cell tower triangulation), people use credit cards/debit cards without any thought to it.

 

That people harp on about this (wildly inaccurate and hardly new (as detailed here)) technology to "track" you is hyperbole.

 

The simplest explanation is probably two-fold - one (and this is a certainty): this is what Apple uses for location services, it's how you find your phone if it's been stolen. two (and this one is a guess): this is probably how apple targets ads for locales.

 

Finally, if you opt out of Location Services - the file isn't updated.

yeah, not sure if it was an article linked here or one I read somewhere else, but they basically said this file was there due to an oversight. Apparently it should regularly flush out the old location data, but for whatever reason it doesn't. It will probably be taken care of with the next iOS update.

BTW, Android DOES do the exact same thing, only it writes over the old data only leaving a snapshot of the recent past.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/21/android-phones-record-user-locations

  On 4/22/2011 at 4:38 PM, hautlle said:

Privacy is an illusion if you're using all the amenities the modern world offers

first non sarcastic post, this is absolutely not true. Some aspects of privacy have changed, but to make a blanket statement like this is irresponsible. There are plenty of things that we should and can still have privacy about, it is a natural organic need that can be traced back to early childhood. I really don't understand this 'privacy is an illusion' or 'privacy is over' type of fatalistic mindsets. I mean clearly certain kinds of privacy rights should be fought for no? like the right to jerk off without being recorded? It almost feels like you and others are kind of literally saying some of things i was being sarcastic about. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying if i have a webcam on my computer i should just assume that my privacy is being violated by someone?

  On 4/22/2011 at 7:29 PM, baph said:

Read thread title, got excited, experienced disappointment upon realizing that iPhone wasn't keeping track of my bowel movements for me.

there's an app for that!

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:30 PM, Awepittance said:

  On 4/22/2011 at 4:38 PM, hautlle said:

Privacy is an illusion if you're using all the amenities the modern world offers

 

first non sarcastic post, this is absolutely not true. Some aspects of privacy have changed, but to make a blanket statement like this is irresponsible. There are plenty of things that we should and can still have privacy about, it is a natural organic need that can be traced back to early childhood. I really don't understand this 'privacy is an illusion' or 'privacy is over' type of fatalistic mindsets. I mean clearly certain kinds of privacy rights should be fought for no? like the right to jerk off without being recorded? It almost feels like you and others are kind of literally saying some of things i was being sarcastic about. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying if i have a webcam on my computer i should just assume that my privacy is being violated by someone?

pretty sure he meant this:

  On 4/22/2011 at 7:28 PM, chenGOD said:

... facebook has 500 million users, there are however many billion cell phones in the world (all of which can locate you by using cell tower triangulation), people use credit cards/debit cards without any thought to it.

also, where do you get that privacy is an organic need? that's bull imo. if anything it should be obvious that is a social construct.

hopefully someday we'll just get on with the whole human farse and stop being ashamed of ourselves

There have been several references to George Orwell, specifically 1984, and since this is a thread about iPhones and other consumer goods I figure I would post the following strip. I've been waiting for a relevant time to post this, without having a form a thread, because I found it to be thought provoking in regards to perceived negative evolutions in the modern world.

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:52 PM, GORDO said:

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:30 PM, Awepittance said:

  On 4/22/2011 at 4:38 PM, hautlle said:

Privacy is an illusion if you're using all the amenities the modern world offers

 

first non sarcastic post, this is absolutely not true. Some aspects of privacy have changed, but to make a blanket statement like this is irresponsible. There are plenty of things that we should and can still have privacy about, it is a natural organic need that can be traced back to early childhood. I really don't understand this 'privacy is an illusion' or 'privacy is over' type of fatalistic mindsets. I mean clearly certain kinds of privacy rights should be fought for no? like the right to jerk off without being recorded? It almost feels like you and others are kind of literally saying some of things i was being sarcastic about. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying if i have a webcam on my computer i should just assume that my privacy is being violated by someone?

 

pretty sure he meant this:

 

  On 4/22/2011 at 7:28 PM, chenGOD said:

... facebook has 500 million users, there are however many billion cell phones in the world (all of which can locate you by using cell tower triangulation), people use credit cards/debit cards without any thought to it.

i was waiting for him to respond, but appreciate the attempt to talk for him

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:52 PM, GORDO said:

also, where do you get that privacy is an organic need? that's bull imo. if anything it should be obvious that is a social construct.

from many civil liberties experts as well as my own experience being around small children who without external prodding will request privacy. You literally seem to be the only one on this forum that speaks openly about thinking privacy is not important. I don't think we're ever going to have a constructive debate when it literally is one of the most important values to me

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:52 PM, GORDO said:

 

Is privacy an organic need? that's bull imo. if anything it should be obvious that is a social construct.

I changed that into a question for discussion's sake.

It's an interesting concept - that privacy is an organic or inherent right. Certainly, the levels to which it has been taken in the individualist capitalist societies is certainly a social construct. If we look at other societies we can see privacy expectations greatly lowered, for example in traditional Korea much of family life was conducted in the open square that formed the interior of the house (it had rooms around the edge of the square with doors facing inwards). Looking at other anthropological studies of "primitive" tribes, most of life was lived in complete public, but people would sneak off in cover of night for trysts outside the socially permitted norms, however sex within permitted norms was done with other people present sometimes. (based off my admittedly limited readings on the !Kung in Africa).

I do think that the norms we have established now lend themselves to increased privacy, but the idea that when you are in public you are entitled to privacy is a little ridiculous.

  On 4/22/2011 at 9:08 PM, Scrambled Ears said:

hopefully someday we'll just get on with the whole human farse and stop being ashamed of ourselves

yes because wanting privacy means you are ashamed of yourself.

  On 4/22/2011 at 9:26 PM, chenGOD said:

but the idea that when you are in public you are entitled to privacy is a little ridiculous.

really, seriously? How far would you take this? I mean surely a public toilet shouldn't be filming your genitals, or is this something you consider an inevitable eventual product of navigating in the public landscape?

I'd like to get a better idea on people's own threshold for what they consider privacy violations while in public or private.

You can of course take the argument to its absurd conclusion, but in my opinion, the idea that you can expect to be private say when driving your car, or shopping in a public space, or operating a public commodity like a record label is naive.

Yes there should be limits, (for example taking pictures of your genitals in public bathrooms), but if you're on a public street, then for me the line is if you are being harassed or not.

Paparazzi getting up in celebrities faces is harassment (as is the taking pictures of your genitals scenario). A traffic camera clocking you (or a celebrity) running a red light is not an invasion of privacy.

This iPhone deal - not an invasion of privacy, as you can simply turn off location services (although it should be opt-in rather than opt-out).

  On 4/22/2011 at 9:25 PM, Awepittance said:

from many civil liberties experts as well as my own experience being around small children who without external prodding will request privacy. You literally seem to be the only one on this forum that speaks openly about thinking privacy is not important. I don't think we're ever going to have a constructive debate when it literally is one of the most important values to me

You tend to polarize every discussion and see things only in black and white, I've never expressed that privacy isn't important, but since my opinion differs from yours, you place it in the opposite side of the spectrum. that is why people can't have constructive debates with you.

As has been pointed out, different cultures handle privacy differently and one is already exposed to a lot of what could be considered invasions of privacy that don't affect you in the least, the absence of privacy only affects you if you are aware of it and the magnitude of a breach of privacy depends solely on how much the affected person cares about it; one person doesn't give a shit if his shoppings habits are recorded, and another may freak out about that but shrug to getting his genitals being filmed. this, to me points out that privacy is an artificial need.

And to me it is kind of clear that privacy is mostly needed because people tend to be assholes. Yes, it is a need, but not an organic one.

For what it's worth: I really agree with GORDO. (one time!)

This seems more like a debate between having privacy as a moral right, and having privacy as an almost impossibility in the modern human web. Just like the importance of having privacy, connectivity is just as important. Don't be surprised that in a couple of years having access to the internet is as big of a right as having privacy. Well, at least in Europe.

if you are always connected via your phone to their service then surely they can track you without having the data store on your phone. they can store it on their end. am i wrong?

Ignorance is bliss.

not really though. ignorant people are usually just as pissed off about something or other as the people trying to change things.

  On 4/22/2011 at 9:25 PM, Awepittance said:

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:52 PM, GORDO said:

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:30 PM, Awepittance said:

  On 4/22/2011 at 4:38 PM, hautlle said:

Privacy is an illusion if you're using all the amenities the modern world offers

 

first non sarcastic post, this is absolutely not true. Some aspects of privacy have changed, but to make a blanket statement like this is irresponsible. There are plenty of things that we should and can still have privacy about, it is a natural organic need that can be traced back to early childhood. I really don't understand this 'privacy is an illusion' or 'privacy is over' type of fatalistic mindsets. I mean clearly certain kinds of privacy rights should be fought for no? like the right to jerk off without being recorded? It almost feels like you and others are kind of literally saying some of things i was being sarcastic about. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying if i have a webcam on my computer i should just assume that my privacy is being violated by someone?

 

pretty sure he meant this:

 

  On 4/22/2011 at 7:28 PM, chenGOD said:

... facebook has 500 million users, there are however many billion cell phones in the world (all of which can locate you by using cell tower triangulation), people use credit cards/debit cards without any thought to it.

i was waiting for him to respond, but appreciate the attempt to talk for him

 

 

  On 4/22/2011 at 8:52 PM, GORDO said:

also, where do you get that privacy is an organic need? that's bull imo. if anything it should be obvious that is a social construct.

 

from many civil liberties experts as well as my own experience being around small children who without external prodding will request privacy. You literally seem to be the only one on this forum that speaks openly about thinking privacy is not important. I don't think we're ever going to have a constructive debate when it literally is one of the most important values to me

GORDO got what I meant. As said in the quote, we're actively giving up our privacy for convenience. Add to that the thousands of of CC cameras recording public spaces, RFID, etc. Privacy isn't completely dead, and what I said is a bit of hyperbole, but it is becoming a thinner and thinner line. I agree with your statement about needing to fight for what little privacy we have left and applaud you if you're personally taking action.

Companies charge you to use data data they generate. Why should companies not pay a fee for using the data you are generating? Apple sells an iphone, makes a profit, then continues to profit from the data you generate? Plenty of companies are upfront about this and ask you if you would like to send data back to them so that it can influence subsequent versions of their product etc. The fact that Apple is secretly doing this without an opt in or out opportunity reeks of sneaky underhandedness.

the world is such a terrible downward spiral, ESPECIALLY NOW MORE THAN EVER.

actually the world is generally becoming better every year, it's just that our ability to comprehend the dark forces that go alongside this progress grows as well.

i can't believe Apple hasn't made a statement on this yet. every hour that goes by that they don't address this publicly makes them look worse and worse.

indeed, crazy how their stock is vaporizing. Crazy!

BREAKING: iPhone saves password for your Facebook account.

EDIT: gmail account too! 2012!

  On 4/22/2011 at 9:51 PM, GORDO said:

I've never expressed that privacy isn't important, but since my opinion differs from yours, you place it in the opposite side of the spectrum.

i hate to keep beating a dead horse, but you actually did say this, before the end of this thread i'll hopefully dig it up.

I remember the other discussion in the thread about the school spying on their alumni webcam. what i was arguing there was the same i'm arguing here: that the need for privacy is a consequence of people being assholes to each other. and i painted a picture in which the end of privacy would be a good thing if it came as a a cause or consequence of not needing it. I also remember stating in that thread that i'm a very private person.