The SID Chip (6581/8580)

The problem with starting a thread under the influence of a few vodkas is that your over-excitement can usually cloud coherent judgement (and spelling) but hey lets see what mess I can make. OK so the Sid chip, a lot of people may know it as being the main sound chip built into the Commodore 64, and some people might even know there were two of them - originally the 6581, then later the 'bug-fixed' 8580 (which unfortunately broke some songs that relied on the bugs, particularly in playing back samples).

However I suspect that only a few people are aware of quite how versatile and ahead of the time the chip was, this was a chip put in a business machine to play back simple 3 channel audio using a range only 5 different waveform types, so pretty darn retrictuve, yet somehow several people decided to tackle such limitations and produce music that has no doubt influenced the electronic music scene that we listen to today.

Rather than link to some overly posted youtube videos of c64 games I thought I'd upload a couple of examples that show quite how far you can push the chip

The first is the very end of the theme tune of the game Parallax from 1986 by Martin Galway, this particular moment arises about 10 (!) minutes into it - Now bear in mind they had to fit the entire game into 64Kb of ram, 10 minutes is a hell of a long time to have for just one track, but in this extract check out quite how visceral sounding the synthesis is, like FM synths there's a real physical quality to the sound -

parallax.mp3 2.87 MB · 129 downloads

The second is a much more recent track, made in 1997 by a member of the demo scene named Eddie Svard, I'm yet to find a track made for the c64 more technically proficient than this one. This stretches the nuances of the SID chip to insane levels especially for a something that was made nearly 30 years old -

radient.mp3 7.04 MB · 124 downloads

So the SID chip ladies and gentleman: Something that resulted out of pure luck, or one of the most forward thinking chips of the last century ?

Holy shit these songs are both incredible. I'd seen a small amount of SID wankery before but nothing this proficient or dynamic. Too bad I probably wouldn't be able to properly handle the chips to get good stuff out of them if I got a few. I need to hear more SID based stuff now though.

I love this Chip and I agree it was certainly a forward thinking Chip. Even when certain C64 games didn't live up to the hype back then, there was always certain to be at least an excellent SID tune to almost redeem the game. It's telling how many of the tunes still stand up today and how highly regarded the composers of the time are. I always wanted to get my self that hardware SID based synth that came out, SIDSynth but couldn't afford it.

SidStation

This also looks like a pretty interesting mix of VST and Hardware.

HardSID

Being a huge Amiga fan, I'd be interested in a synth based on the PAULA chip from the Amiga but it occurred to me that since Paula doesn't really create the sounds as such but plays back samples created outside the Chip, there wouldn't be much difference than using a sampler or just running OctaMED on an emulator. SID definitely has the more interesting advantage in this respect.

I'm sure you already know this, but the monomachine includes elektron's SID emulation.

  On 4/21/2011 at 11:34 PM, Dissolvedpaul said:

Being a huge Amiga fan, I'd be interested in a synth based on the PAULA chip from the Amiga but it occurred to me that since Paula doesn't really create the sounds as such but plays back samples created outside the Chip, there wouldn't be much difference than using a sampler or just running OctaMED on an emulator.

Agreed, and that chip was what got me introduced into music production - I think it was Octamed 6 was where I finally grasped tracking. But yeah like you say, the Paula was mainly just an 8 bit sampling/playback device rather than a synth. The vast majority of the Amigas output in the 90s used the ST-00 sample set which (I think) were mainly sampled from the Yamaha DX synths of that era

  On 4/21/2011 at 10:36 PM, mcbpete said:

 

So the SID chip ladies and gentleman: Something that resulted out of pure luck, or one of the most forward thinking chips of the last century ?

both. like everything, innit. :)

Damn, that Parallax tune was sick. I just found the whole tune on youtube, and the whole 10 minutes is just as good as that clip. Gives me chills:

I've been keeping my eye open for some 8580s for a while. I was really bummed when I missed out on the sammich SID, but I just didn't have the cash to spend on one at the time. Been kicking myself ever since.

currently borrowing a sammichsid from betty, which has a sid chip in it.

it's a pretty sick synth, although i'll happily admit i have no idea how to utilise it properly. it has plenty of presets though to keep me happy : )

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:23 AM, soundwave said:

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

I can't think of examples right now, but haven't intentional digital artifacts been done before?

Galway is god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fZzOQrcAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFYzjU-C3mA&feature=related

Rob hubbard as well..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrQuR1LHAVI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlwgAzgK7ws

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:24 AM, ganus said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:23 AM, soundwave said:

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

I can't think of examples right now, but haven't intentional digital artifacts been done before?

imho its not quite been exploited well enough given the new custom tools made for the virtues of this type of sound like the sidstation, midibox, biscuit ect

sure theres some excellent lo-bit stuff out there but the musical approach is been more of a retro cool ethos rather than shreading speaker cones

  On 4/23/2011 at 1:25 PM, soundwave said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:24 AM, ganus said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:23 AM, soundwave said:

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

I can't think of examples right now, but haven't intentional digital artifacts been done before?

 

imho its not quite been exploited well enough given the new custom tools made for the virtues of this type of sound like the sidstation, midibox, biscuit ect

 

sure theres some excellent lo-bit stuff out there but the musical approach is been more of a retro cool ethos rather than shreading speaker cones

i dunno, cheapshot is pretty mind smashingly amazing when it comes to 'shredding speaker cones'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RucQP3WRqpQ

I have one of these, haven't used it much yet. I need a few more SIDs inside it (it handles 8).

Perhaps you'd like to hear my experiments?

Is the number of sids purely for polyphony so you can have like 24 channels at once, that's just cheating

(But yeah, please share your sid based tracks !)

  On 4/24/2011 at 1:59 PM, modey said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 1:25 PM, soundwave said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:24 AM, ganus said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:23 AM, soundwave said:

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

I can't think of examples right now, but haven't intentional digital artifacts been done before?

 

imho its not quite been exploited well enough given the new custom tools made for the virtues of this type of sound like the sidstation, midibox, biscuit ect

 

sure theres some excellent lo-bit stuff out there but the musical approach is been more of a retro cool ethos rather than shreading speaker cones

i dunno, cheapshot is pretty mind smashingly amazing when it comes to 'shredding speaker cones'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RucQP3WRqpQ

Very nice

  On 4/24/2011 at 11:50 PM, mcbpete said:

Is the number of sids purely for polyphony so you can have like 24 channels at once, that's just cheating

 

(But yeah, please share your sid based tracks !)

Yeah, it's for polyphony but more importantly for redundancy. These things won't last forever.

  On 4/21/2011 at 10:36 PM, mcbpete said:

 

 

The second is a much more recent track, made in 1997 by a member of the demo scene named Eddie Svard, I'm yet to find a track made for the c64 more technically proficient than this one. This stretches the nuances of the SID chip to insane levels especially for a something that was made nearly 30 years old -

this is amazing, Cylob would ejaculate if he heard this.

  On 4/23/2011 at 1:25 PM, soundwave said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:24 AM, ganus said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:23 AM, soundwave said:

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

I can't think of examples right now, but haven't intentional digital artifacts been done before?

 

imho its not quite been exploited well enough given the new custom tools made for the virtues of this type of sound like the sidstation, midibox, biscuit ect

 

sure theres some excellent lo-bit stuff out there but the musical approach is been more of a retro cool ethos rather than shreading speaker cones

are you unfamiliar with the label Tigerbeat 6 and it's output from 1996-2000? it pretty much did the whole bit crushing half assed video game sound to death. I personally despise it when it's used in electronic music to make it sound videogamey, if it's used simply to get some other kind of result i'm all for it But damn if it isn't the single most annoying effect used in glitch/idm music.

  On 4/25/2011 at 4:03 AM, Awepittance said:

are you unfamiliar with the label Tigerbeat 6 and it's output from 1996-2000? it pretty much did the whole bit crushing half assed video game sound to death. I personally despise it when it's used in electronic music to make it sound videogamey, if it's used simply to get some other kind of result i'm all for it But damn if it isn't the single most annoying effect used in glitch/idm music.

I take it you didn't like Splazsh then. :P

i'm never quite sure how to feel about kid606/tigerbeat6

I don't think I like it at all.

except i used to listen to this toecutter remix of kid606 all the time a few years back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8voxcMUNbC8

lol

also sorry for derailing. i wanna hear acidphakist SID songs

  On 4/25/2011 at 4:03 AM, Awepittance said:

  On 4/21/2011 at 10:36 PM, mcbpete said:

 

 

The second is a much more recent track, made in 1997 by a member of the demo scene named Eddie Svard, I'm yet to find a track made for the c64 more technically proficient than this one. This stretches the nuances of the SID chip to insane levels especially for a something that was made nearly 30 years old -

 

this is amazing, Cylob would ejaculate if he heard this.

 

  On 4/23/2011 at 1:25 PM, soundwave said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:24 AM, ganus said:

  On 4/23/2011 at 8:23 AM, soundwave said:

I think bit crushed and digital lo-fi artefacts will be the next trend in electronic music.

I can't think of examples right now, but haven't intentional digital artifacts been done before?

 

imho its not quite been exploited well enough given the new custom tools made for the virtues of this type of sound like the sidstation, midibox, biscuit ect

 

sure theres some excellent lo-bit stuff out there but the musical approach is been more of a retro cool ethos rather than shreading speaker cones

 

are you unfamiliar with the label Tigerbeat 6 and it's output from 1996-2000? it pretty much did the whole bit crushing half assed video game sound to death. I personally despise it when it's used in electronic music to make it sound videogamey, if it's used simply to get some other kind of result i'm all for it But damn if it isn't the single most annoying effect used in glitch/idm music.

agreed dude there's a lot more scope in this type of raw sound that hasn't really been harnessed or refined yet

I just dug out two knackered C64's in my attic and now have two 6581 chips available for some project.....hmmmmmmmm

  On 4/25/2011 at 11:45 AM, soundwave said:

I just dug out two knackered C64's in my attic and now have two 6581 chips available for some project.....hmmmmmmmm

Name your price.

  On 4/25/2011 at 12:56 PM, acidphakist said:

  On 4/25/2011 at 11:45 AM, soundwave said:

I just dug out two knackered C64's in my attic and now have two 6581 chips available for some project.....hmmmmmmmm

 

 

Name your price.

LOL

currently looking at the SammichSID kits only available without the two required SID's now

saying that I already have two monomachine's hmmmmmmmm

  On 4/21/2011 at 10:36 PM, mcbpete said:

 

The second is a much more recent track, made in 1997 by a member of the demo scene named Eddie Svard, I'm yet to find a track made for the c64 more technically proficient than this one. This stretches the nuances of the SID chip to insane levels especially for a something that was made nearly 30 years old -

 

radient.mp3Fetching info...

 

So the SID chip ladies and gentleman: Something that resulted out of pure luck, or one of the most forward thinking chips of the last century ?

This is amazing, thanks.