Let's talk about song arrangement

Many of my works are through compositions. Meaning they don't really have repeating sections. I just keep adding new sections until I feel I've gone long enough, so then I end it.

http://futureimagerecords.bandcamp.com/track/a-room-with-nothing-in-it

^This track is a good example^

When you have a track just think of the main themes, once you have your themes just put melodic phrases between them that will connect them. It's best to work arrangements in that will go well with the flow of the track, so sometimes a progression that would work doesn't, just because of it's placement. Also I think it's nice to allow yourself room to have repetition in some tracks, if you plan to make a release you could have some tracks that have more subtle variations but then contrast that with a song with a lot of changes...

my solution was to make each loop only loop once or twice then make a totally new loop

then sequence 10 or so different loops

so it ends up sounding like 'Spillane' by John Zorn. except not good

yeah i dunno

  On 5/8/2011 at 10:54 PM, Sprigg said:

  On 5/8/2011 at 5:20 PM, wahrk said:

Some of my common song section labels to get your brain juices flowing:

 

-drop

-build

-fall

-spazz out

-uhhhn

-groove

-destruction

-fuck shit up

-out

 

 

So in other words, you use the way you shit in your music making? Brilliant.

Yes.

Now think about that every time someone says, "Hey man, I really like your shit. You wanna hear some of my shit? Oh, and if you like that shit you should listen to this guy's shit. It's the shit!"

  On 5/9/2011 at 8:06 AM, wahrk said:

  On 5/8/2011 at 10:54 PM, Sprigg said:

  On 5/8/2011 at 5:20 PM, wahrk said:

Some of my common song section labels to get your brain juices flowing:

 

-drop

-build

-fall

-spazz out

-uhhhn

-groove

-destruction

-fuck shit up

-out

 

 

So in other words, you use the way you shit in your music making? Brilliant.

Yes.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

FUCKING LOL

 

 

Now think about that every time someone says, "Hey man, I really like your shit. You wanna hear some of my shit? Oh, and if you like that shit you should listen to this guy's shit. It's the shit!"

I think I have no choice but to think about this now.

Thread on song arrangement devolves into poop thread.[/watmm]

it depends on the song// or sounds.. or whatever you've made. arrange stuff however you want. i don't get why people make threads asking to be taught how to make music. it's like asking how to paint a beautiful picture.. use your intuition.

  On 5/10/2011 at 6:33 PM, mafted said:

it depends on the song// or sounds.. or whatever you've made. arrange stuff however you want. i don't get why people make threads asking to be taught how to make music. it's like asking how to paint a beautiful picture.. use your intuition.

Chill out duder. I'm not asking people how to make music, just looking for new ideas on how to do one aspect of music-making. I know how to arrange a song in various ways. This thread has given me ideas for a few more.

  On 5/10/2011 at 6:33 PM, mafted said:

it depends on the song// or sounds.. or whatever you've made. arrange stuff however you want. i don't get why people make threads asking to be taught how to make music. it's like asking how to paint a beautiful picture.. use your intuition.

exactly, because none of the great artists in history ever took a painting class, let alone studied their art form for years under a mentor and/or with a community of like minded artists.

  On 5/10/2011 at 7:56 PM, scones to die for said:

Chill out duder. I'm not asking people how to make music, just looking for new ideas on how to do one aspect of music-making. I know how to arrange a song in various ways. This thread has given me ideas for a few more.

yeah I hear you, it's difficult to discuss anything at all if everyone is so sure that their methods are the right thing for everyone. just use what is out there.

I like this topic. very interesting links so far. What helps me the most is to take a track I like as midi or mp3 and try to build my own track around it. At the end I am totally free to do whatever I like but I have a certain goal in mind so I know when its finished or where I need to do breaks or whatever to archive a certain effect. After a while I dont need that guideline anymore and can do it subconsciously

Something I used in lots of tunes is to do a whole bunch of loops and tie those together in a basic arangement, then just start adding things in between those ties. And then maybe stuff in between the inbetween stuff, etc.

  On 5/10/2011 at 9:10 PM, o00o said:

I like this topic. very interesting links so far. What helps me the most is to take a track I like as midi or mp3 and try to build my own track around it. At the end I am totally free to do whatever I like but I have a certain goal in mind so I know when its finished or where I need to do breaks or whatever to archive a certain effect. After a while I dont need that guideline anymore and can do it subconsciously

I like that one too - gonna try it on my next track.

  On 5/11/2011 at 1:07 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

  On 5/9/2011 at 12:43 AM, Braintree said:

Many of my works are through compositions. Meaning they don't really have repeating sections. I just keep adding new sections until I feel I've gone long enough, so then I end it.

 

http://futureimagerecords.bandcamp.com/track/a-room-with-nothing-in-it

 

^This track is a good example^

thankyou for offering me the advantage..nay...the PRIVILEGE of buying this track.

My pleasure! I hope you enjoy it

  On 5/13/2011 at 3:26 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

meh i didn't actually listen i was just being snarky about your shameless plug (but i guess a man's gotta eat, right?)

 

i'm sure it's good listenings, though.

i think character development is important. when you're watching a film you want to get an initial impression of the lead characters, then watch as they unravel, struggle against each other, and fall in love and die and whatnot. i like to think of the individual voices in a track as characters interacting. once you have a simple loop going with a few layers you can get a feeling for the character of each layer and start asking yourself how they're going to evolve and interact as time goes on.

like, you might have one synth which is aggressively dominating the melodic space, but you hear a hollowness in it and you realize it's an antagonist meant to be defeated by the young and jubilant fm squelches creeping in the background.

i dont know. this shit is really fun. have fun with it. tell a story

  On 5/13/2011 at 4:06 AM, Boxus said:

i think character development is important. when you're watching a film you want to get an initial impression of the lead characters, then watch as they unravel, struggle against each other, and fall in love and die and whatnot. i like to think of the individual voices in a track as characters interacting. once you have a simple loop going with a few layers you can get a feeling for the character of each layer and start asking yourself how they're going to evolve and interact as time goes on.

 

like, you might have one synth which is aggressively dominating the melodic space, but you hear a hollowness in it and you realize it's an antagonist meant to be defeated by the young and jubilant fm squelches creeping in the background.

 

i dont know. this shit is really fun. have fun with it. tell a story

this is also very much how I work.

  On 5/13/2011 at 4:06 AM, Boxus said:

i think character development is important. when you're watching a film you want to get an initial impression of the lead characters, then watch as they unravel, struggle against each other, and fall in love and die and whatnot. i like to think of the individual voices in a track as characters interacting. once you have a simple loop going with a few layers you can get a feeling for the character of each layer and start asking yourself how they're going to evolve and interact as time goes on.

 

like, you might have one synth which is aggressively dominating the melodic space, but you hear a hollowness in it and you realize it's an antagonist meant to be defeated by the young and jubilant fm squelches creeping in the background.

I'm so trying this, thanks! :D

You can also do soundtracks to movies or music videos you like to force you into a certain kind of mood / rhythm and remove the video material in the end

  On 5/13/2011 at 11:27 AM, o00o said:

You can also do soundtracks to movies or music videos you like to force you into a certain kind of mood / rhythm and remove the video material in the end

I've been meaning to do this for a while, too. Ever since hearing about the Dark Side of the Rainbow effect, I've thought, sure, that's just a coincidence, but someone should do something like that on purpose! :D

  On 5/13/2011 at 11:27 AM, o00o said:

You can also do soundtracks to movies or music videos you like to force you into a certain kind of mood / rhythm and remove the video material in the end

For example:

http://soundcloud.com/wahrk/desert-power

  On 5/11/2011 at 1:07 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

yeah fuck sharing ideas and building on the collective consciousness. why would anyone want to gain perspective on an issue that affects them? seems so silly to me.

lol.. how the hell did you read that in to what i said? not sharing ideas? that's not what i wrote or meant. let's be at least a tiny bit reasonable and a little less.. 'snarky'?

"Anyone have any methods on how to break free from the loop and keep things interesting over a 4 to 8 minute track? "

people take lifetimes learning how to achieve this. what i was saying is you can't teach intuition on a message board. fuck if i care at this point.

  On 5/18/2011 at 2:59 PM, mafted said:

"Anyone have any methods on how to break free from the loop and keep things interesting over a 4 to 8 minute track? "

 

people take lifetimes learning how to achieve this. what i was saying is you can't teach intuition on a message board. fuck if i care at this point.

of course you can't just upload it to someone's brain, but i believe there are things you can do. you can give people direction and exercises.... from there it's up to the disciple to muddle through the exercises on his own, and ideally they start to pick up what can't be simply explained. it's still learning by doing, but the tad of guidance can make it quicker and more focused.

here are some interesting exercises for song arrangement:

-write a song with quantize/grid turned off. no grids. watch how it changes your approach.

-try writing a whole song's worth of drums before any melody. do the drums start to suggest a melody?

-pick through a few prodigy songs and watch how they've built their loops

but, i also have a more specific answer: groove. the rhythmic negative space. the motion of the song that makes it engaging. you keep running through that groove, swapping bits out so it changes, but you don't leave that groove (except for the breakdown, perhaps).