You've Come a Long Way Baby VS. Entroducing

I just wanted to say 2 separate things

1. Entroducing is a classic, I won't contest that. I enjoy it a shitload when it's the good songs and play those songs regularly and have been for years. I am noting that by the 'critical establishment' and the basic overall opinion of the people, Entroducing... is considered a 'work of art.'

2. Early big beat and rave music is not considered art, or great. This is wrong because the reason Entroducing... is often considered art is for what I personally believe to be invalid reasons. It is generally considered art because it is made entirely of sampling and has a relaxed atmosphere. Some tracks have a large amount of detail, these tracks are in my mind brilliant works of music. Simply in response to some other

However, we can notice the trend of big beat being embraced by the press, then trashed constantly over the next 10 years since it's 'death.' Late albums by the Chemical Brothers were considered [somewhat rightfully] bad, Fatboy Slim wasn't ever mentioned without a scoff, and the Prodigy became punk rock dickheads. The hipsters are the ones controlling what is acceptable to like in the magazines.

In my mind, the Chemical Brothers first two to three albums are truly solid gold. Specifically 'Dig Your Own Hole' which has aged very well. 'Exit Planet Dust' is a relic of brilliance from a misunderstood era.

'Surrender' is anything but a drop off. It is likely just as good as the first two. The song 'Asleep from Day' is an extraordinary work that touches on the 'drug addled dissociation' of early 90s 'Spiritualized' style music better than Spiritualized ever did. The Chemical Brothers have many songs like this, such as 'Where Do I Begin.' I don't want to contrast Entroducing... with a track like 'Where Do I Begin' other than to draw attention to the fact that one is generally considered good and the other as a 90s big beat bullshit pile for people who like dance music and are incompetent in levels of taste. What makes art is not an idea [all samples] or an atmosphere [chill]. What makes art, in my mind, is creativity. Unbridled creativity and wildness. A willingness to explore outer reaches. To make SOUNDS! that one didn't know were possible and use them in a unique way.

Ironically, a true hipster would disregard the entire big beat spectrum as being shit simply for the fact that it is bombastic and noisey as opposed to 'tasteful' and ambient. This is, in my opinion, one of the most irritating and vile forces at play in the critical community. It's like everything must be minimal, quiet, and chill, for it to be worth considering. Give it a break. Since when is music supposed to be 'slept' to or 'drifted within' only. Music can be a wild experience for the brain, a journey of thought. It needn't be restrained to be 'good.' Give me abstract noise over a blasting breakbeat over sleep music any day. Or at least the days when my mind is awake and looking to be stimulated by true music and not 'sleeping/relaxation' aids disguised as music.

and the reason I loved Music for the Jilted Generation without question and with joy and glee for the majority of my life is because of the pure originality of the thing. I won't say again that I don't like Entroducing... I keep a very open mind. It is the establishment which has consistently rejected the other side of music since the start of the 00s when 90s electronic was decreed 'outdated' and out of fashion. Fascist hipster bastards making minimal techno and ambient music the new cool.

thread title and first post were meant to incite a reaction. because obviously anyone well versed in music will laugh immediately, either with an insider sheen or a disapproving tone, then to say 'DJ Shadow, duh!!!!!'

  On 6/17/2011 at 4:34 AM, vamos scorcho said:

and the reason I loved Music for the Jilted Generation without question and with joy and glee for the majority of my life is because of the pure originality of the thing. I won't say again that I don't like Entroducing... I keep a very open mind. It is the establishment which has consistently rejected the other side of music since the start of the 00s when 90s electronic was decreed 'outdated' and out of fashion. Fascist hipster bastards making minimal techno and ambient music the new cool.

this post makes you sound like a douche, just fyi

see Pitchfork [critical establishment] review of Go Plastic / nearly every electronic album I like next to Pitchfork review of From Here We Go Sublime, This Bliss, and so on

I'm sure i sound like a douche but it bereaves me. its not as if i'm engaged in a discussion, i'm typing a bunch of random shit for no reason that may or may not be based in reality. i haven't slept much the past few nights, what difference does it make.

fuck The Field, fuck minimal techno, fuck ambient music, and fuck the critics that control the flow of information in a bias towards these bullshit no talent genres. I listen to MORE stars of the lid and MORE tim hecker and more of this no talent music than the next guy but come on, lets show some respect for EXISTING NOTES than NON-EXISTING NOTES

JONH CAGE was a rapist of the physical sound. NO, the rain falling is not music. sounds collected = music. ambient sounds = new age. lets set this straight. The Field is interesting and good hypnotic music but the whole meaning of music from the earliest ages was the mastery of the tones and the organization of sound in a harmonic manner. a way of humans to create and shape sound. there have been side tracks but we should remember where we were and where we are heading. it's time to ditch this minimal aesthetic. it's lazy and played as UFKC

who am i convincing other than myself? maybe in 10 years someone will remember me typing this and say, 'yes, he predicted the trends' and i will have if the world still exists. until then i guess i'll just be a douche. and maybe even then i'll just be a delusional hobo listening to shitty DJ Logic albums from my childhood

  On 6/17/2011 at 4:34 AM, vamos scorcho said:

and the reason I loved Music for the Jilted Generation without question and with joy and glee for the majority of my life is because of the pure originality of the thing. I won't say again that I don't like Entroducing... I keep a very open mind. It is the establishment which has consistently rejected the other side of music since the start of the 00s when 90s electronic was decreed 'outdated' and out of fashion. Fascist hipster bastards making minimal techno and ambient music the new cool.

ok, let me go into a bit more detail here.

portishead's 'glory box' was a hit in 1995. it's regarded as a staple, perhaps the staple in terms of commercial success, of trip hop. within six months, you could hear tracks like this in movie soundtracks. within a year, you could hear it in adverts.

roni size's 'brown paper bag' was a hit in 1997. it was maybe the breakout track for DnB as far as commercial success is concerned. within six months, you could hear tracks like this in movie soundtracks. within a year, you could hear chopped up amen breaks in adverts.

around the turn of the decade, glitch was a big thing. a year or two later and you're hearing stutter edits in commercial RnB tracks. fast forward quite a few years to the rise of dubstep. wobble bass. within a similar timeframe, you could hear it in a britney spears track, and then a movie soundtrack and i guarantee give it about another six months and you'll hear some sub-skrillex bullshit in an advert.

this is the way it is. this is the way it's always been. deal with it.

i''ve likely tread one too many locales i shouldn't have around the internet trying to convince people Meat Beat Manifesto is a better artist than Ricardo Villalobos, if you know what I'm trying to get at here. It leads nowhere. People have their own tastes, it will always be that way. But the critical consensus against MBM since the 00s and disregard towards his work is extremely distasteful and reads 'hipster bullshit' from the bottom up.

This is what minimal music is: hipster bullshit. At least in my mind. I think about this too much? Or just more than most.

How can one truly say what is 'better music' or 'worse music?' Well, they can't. They can go by what the critical consensus is and that will be their answer. Therefor Meat Beat Manifesto is less important than Pantha Du Prince.

  On 6/17/2011 at 6:27 AM, usagi said:

  On 6/17/2011 at 6:14 AM, kaini said:

roni size's 'brown paper bag' was a hit in 1997. it was maybe the breakout track for DnB as far as commercial success is concerned.

 

I didn't know that it could be considered "the" breakout DnB track but it was certainly my first taste. That track brings back good memories.

 

well, perhaps that, or perhaps shy fx's original nuttah (arguably jungle) or perhaps m-beat feat general levy's incredible (again, arguably jungle) or perhaps something from goldie's timeless... hard to say, but DnB was subsumed into the mainstream frighteningly fast.

  On 6/17/2011 at 6:14 AM, vamos scorcho said:

How can one truly say what is 'better music' or 'worse music?' Well, they can't.

Bullshit, I say it all the time.

Nice avatar though, love that film.

  On 6/17/2011 at 6:45 AM, usagi said:

and then, PENDULUM

 

EVERYWHERE PENDULUMS

Oh God and they're Australian too...

As if this turd of a country isn't embarrassing enough as it is

Sorry but I just discovered Pendulum have got KJ Sawka playing drums for them now?

I hate Pendulum a lot and I once saw them play and I raised my middle finger at them because I'm hardcore

better than Radiohead, better than VU, better than Spiritualized

this song moves me in the newest ways. it is so powerful and all encompassing

  On 6/17/2011 at 8:39 AM, jim said:

  On 6/17/2011 at 6:14 AM, vamos scorcho said:

How can one truly say what is 'better music' or 'worse music?' Well, they can't.

 

Bullshit, I say it all the time.

 

Nice avatar though, love that film.

I know, it's such a great movie. So weird.

Mmm Hope Sandoval.

better than Radiohead, better than VU, better than Spiritualized

this song moves me in the newest ways. it is so powerful and all encompassing

that's beth orton singing. i've just started checking out her discog a few days ago.

  On 6/17/2011 at 8:44 PM, yek said:

better than Radiohead, better than VU, better tn Spiritualized

 

 

this song moves me in the newest ways. it is so powerful and all encompassing

 

that's beth orton singing. i've just started checking out her discog a few days ago.

Hope Sandoval

why the hate for minimal music?

The Field isn't exactly the pinnacle of minimal techno.

Decks EFX 909 for great justice.

  On 6/9/2011 at 8:22 AM, beerwolf said:

Controversial this, but I find Endtroducing very very boring. I always have done. It's one of those albums that on paper should blow my brains but everytime I have played it (which is a fair few times I got it on release), it just leaves me cold and drags on. It sounds like it is meandering in a vaccuum.

i feel the same way actually. i respect the album and enjoy it, but i feel like it's one of those classics that everyone thinks they must praise endlessly, despite the fact that the music itself is not that interesting or relevant nowadays. i have a feeling that all the people who love this album heard it in the 90s when it was fresh, and now have nostalgia associated with it. i can't see how one would understand it as a masterpiece after hearing it for the first time in 2005 like i did.

fatboy slim - liked their pop tracks in junior high, dont give any semblance of a shit now.

  On 6/21/2011 at 8:00 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

why the hate for minimal music?

 

The Field isn't exactly the pinnacle of minimal techno.

 

 

 

Decks EFX 909 for great justice.

I don't actually hate it. I was just ranting against the attitude that seems to be prevailing through the underground electronic community that less is always more.

I'm personally of the opinion that 'more is more.' I'm a maximalist.

That said, Decks EFX 909 is a great album, there are many of them in the genre, The Field is really good too. I was just ranting in defense of bombast.

You've Come a Long Way Baby VS. Entroducing

I choose Endtroducing. Superb album!

I never liked Fatboy Slim as much as I loved Chemical Brothers. But FBS did a video with Christopher Walken so that's pretty cool. Endtroducing never really left much of an impression on me but I do recognize it's greatness.

  On 6/15/2011 at 11:20 PM, Awepittance said:

funny there seems to be a every once in a while a pretty non descript album like Endtroducing that gets hyped so much to shit, creates a snowball effect of regurgitation appreciation and then is slated as a 'big time classic' and makes all these top 20 lists, it is possible one of the most overrated 'electronic' albums on this side of the planet. Organ grinder is an alright track, but i mean really is DJ shadow's entroducing really that amazing? or is it because you heard it when you were just getting into electronic music?

donor.

it's all about the beginning of 'building steam with a grain of salt'.

i go back and listen to endtroducing regularly and i think 'classic' is well earned.

My love for endtroducing stems mainly from the era that it was made and when I first heard it. In the early 90s I was captivated by hiphop, Public Enemy, Tribe, Gang Starr, etc... sampling and production formed much of the attraction, and at the time it seemed like the possibilities were boundless, however with a few exceptions (e.g. 36 chambers), the art form started going to shit for a while (see why hiphop sucks in 96). Then endtroducing came along and it was such a game changer, something I didn't know I was looking for but was, somehow managing to be the essence and antithesis of hiphop at the same time. It also helped that it was such a cohesive and well produced album, the track sequencing, sample placement/splicing/layering all seemed perfect (and still do).

I can definitely understand though how it wouldn't click for someone just getting familiar with it.

Norman Cook will never top the work he did in The Housemartins. And The Chemical Brothers are just a pair of deformed rich kids (they probably can't pronounce their 'r's either) with some snazzy gear they bought with their trust funds, so there you go.

  On 7/9/2011 at 4:45 AM, Caretstik said:

Norman Cook will never top the work he did in The Housemartins. And The Chemical Brothers are just a pair of deformed rich kids (they probably can't pronounce their 'r's either) with some snazzy gear they bought with their trust funds, so there you go.

it's rare enough i disagree with you, my friend. but nobody has managed to achieve 'beatles filtered through a sorta techno sensibility' that the chems did at the height of their beatles-obsessiveness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdT7GEhpM9A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IykWbUVDWL8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FyfQDO5g0