Previously huge DJs

  On 7/3/2011 at 1:49 AM, jim said:

  On 7/3/2011 at 1:44 AM, Solo Strike said:

  On 7/3/2011 at 12:37 AM, Braintree said:

  On 7/2/2011 at 7:29 PM, jim said:

Symptomatic of a cultural shift, I feel.

 

Late 90's and early 00's was the era of the DJ in which they were elevated to "rockstar" status.

 

Of course people dedicated to the music are still doing it and listening to it and some big names remain big but in general... it just isn't that cool anymore.

 

I just never understood why people would pay tons of money to see DJ whatthefuckever spin other people's music...

 

I want to wear a shirt every time I perform that says "I'm not a DJ."

 

Tune selection? Mixing skills? The ability to read a crowd and gear the music exactly to the situation? There's loads of reasons, I'd rather see a DJ working a mixer and two turntables hard than most pasty faced people clicking away on Ableton most of the time.

 

Why is it important to "read a crowd"? Leave that to stand up comics, good musicians are supposed to have something to say, not to be told what they should be saying by the audience, the majority of whom are probably tone deaf anyway.

because, no matter how important they feel, they're still booked as tonight's fucking entertainment

you should have read on

yes because being booked means your obligated to entertain an audience full of drunk fucks who couldn't give two shits about you instead of having a chance to show them some truly interesting stuff, make them scratch their heads a bit, maybe get a few to dance, but it's much more satisfying just to throw on a 4/4 the whole night and watch the coke kick in.

dj culture has taken a lot of the interestingness out of what could be a really cool alternate future of live electronic music based performance, that's probably the nicest way i can word it. When people pay more money, up to $50-60 to spin records on a turntable, why would anyone strive to make a truly interesting live show based on the new technology when you can just take the easiest path to the 'top'

there are great Djs out there, i don't deny that, but the pervasive mentality in the DJ culture is one that leaves me utterly disgusted. When i attended school i was surrounded by Djs all specializing in their particular niche of flavor of the month dance music of the time, it was the first time i heard the absurd phrase 'live PA' to describe someone who ISNT djing, but actually playing live music, it was just really weird!

This thread is a good read right before I have my set tonight. I have a DJ set tonight at a bar in the not so cultured town of Temecula (That's what the guys at the venue told me). They fired their old DJ because he played too much top 40 and the place wants to veer away from that. Whether it's a good call or not, I'm not sure. But I'm glad they thought of me to come in and file the void.

This opportunity came just in time too because I started my Asymmetrical Head vs QUILIUQ DJ project recently and came up with a few mixes. But I'm using my judgement and down playing my set tonight because I'm not sure what kind of crowd is there. This isn't L.A. where I can be free and do what I want.

And yeah... I'm using ableton and an akai 40 so I'm the sample triggering DJ tonight... I haven't touched vinyl since 2004, but that's not because I lost interest.

You're going to the wrong clubs is all I can say. Anywhere I'd think about going to would be for the music and the people playing, and those sort of clubs fair well here. I'd say people knobbing about with Ableton actually fucked up the club for a few years, hearing people doing live effects and beat stutters that generally sound fairly terrible in a set was terribly prevalent for a while... I've seen some great Ableton/live sets in my time to be fair, Mount Kimbie and Moderat spring to mind, but I've also seen LOTS of ones where the facility of the software is horredously misused. At the end of the day, what's important is the quality of the tracks being played, and a million effects applied over the top can totally detract from that.

I would say that when people do make the effort and play live properly, they are normally rewarded by being able to charge a much higher fee for their performance, and rightly so.

well also keep in mind you live in the UK, where there is a much higher concentration of probably (im taking a guess here) palatable interesting electronic music going on regularly (although you wouldn't know it by Mike P's obsession with Chicago). There isn't a single club/night in san francisco that gets more than 75+ people that plays anything 'weirder' or more eclectic electronic wise than relatively bland not too abstract minimal techno (kontrol). Occasionally there will be but it's not a regular thing.

the more popular and hip electronic club music gets out here, inevitably the more watered down and commercial the biggest nights are, which push out a lot of the more fringe interesting nights. For instance one of the first 'dubstep' nights in SF 'surya dub', not fair to call it dubstep really because it ran the gaumest of Garagey/2step and brand new UK stuff and when dubstep started sweeping SF, it kind of put this relatively smaller night in comparison out of business. When kids can pay the same amount to go hear wobbles for 6 hours straight on a better sound system, why pay the same amount for a club that might not have a wobble every song?

edit: when i say 'nights' i mean a situation where it isnt talent from out of town headlining a show, clubs like the Mezzanine, Public works and 1015 folsom still make a killing off of those, and will have artists are odd as Oizo, Squarepusher or Plastikman play, but still that's pushing it and it never gets much weirder or challenging than that.

  On 7/3/2011 at 2:50 AM, Solo Strike said:

You're going to the wrong clubs is all I can say. Anywhere I'd think about going to would be for the music and the people playing, and those sort of clubs fair well here. I'd say people knobbing about with Ableton actually fucked up the club for a few years, hearing people doing live effects and beat stutters that generally sound fairly terrible in a set was terribly prevalent for a while... I've seen some great Ableton/live sets in my time to be fair, Mount Kimbie and Moderat spring to mind, but I've also seen LOTS of ones where the facility of the software is horredously misused. At the end of the day, what's important is the quality of the tracks being played, and a million effects applied over the top can totally detract from that.

I feel that the music being mixed already has affects, and to add a few more on top of that would be over kill. I've mentioned in other threads that I don't use the knobs at all on the 40. I'll probably buy a 20 when I give this controller back.

  On 7/3/2011 at 2:41 AM, Awepittance said:

but the pervasive mentality in the DJ culture is one that leaves me utterly disgusted. When i attended school i was surrounded by Djs all specializing in their particular niche of flavor of the month dance music of the time, it was the first time i heard the absurd phrase 'live PA' to describe someone who ISNT djing, but actually playing live music, it was just really weird!

Well put. That's the insane arse about face zeitgeist I remember so fondly from my teenage years. Perhaps I was being optimistic and jumping the gun a little when I asserted that it's no longer the case? Annoying as hipster bands are, they could at least be credited with steering popular culture away from DJ worship and back into having some respect for live music-making, nomatter how dire the quality...

(again not trying to tar all DJ's with the same brush here, mainly referring to a particular type)

This is true, I do feel like we are somewhat spoilt here. I'm not familiar with San Fran, but I did live in America for a while and remember the scene being very, very different to over here. In a way England is oversaturated with decent clubs and there's a huge amount of competition in the main cities.

the only way American can compete with the UK in that sense is if we literally lumped every major city 'scene' in much tighter space

  On 7/3/2011 at 2:53 AM, Awepittance said:

 

the more popular and hip electronic club music gets out here, inevitably the more watered down and commercial the biggest nights are, which push out a lot of the more fringe interesting nights. For instance one of the first 'dubstep' nights in SF 'surya dub', not fair to call it dubstep really because it ran the gaumest of Garagey/2step and brand new UK stuff and when dubstep started sweeping SF, it kind of put this relatively smaller night in comparison out of business. When kids can pay the same amount to go hear wobbles for 6 hours straight on a better sound system, why pay the same amount for a club that might not have a wobble every song?

I would imagine San Fran would always have its supporters of fringe elements though? I think the heads who know what's going on will always seek out the new and interesting sounds. I know you're personally not a huge fan of the juke/footwork thing, but when those guys came through town recently over here with the dancers, I was blown away despite there only being 25 people-ish in the club, because it was so different and refreshing to what I'm used to in the clubs here.

Bigger clubs tend to be fairly commerical, but that's fine, there's always going to be the element of people who want to go out and get fucked up and brock out and the music isn't such a big deal, and maybe that proportion of the audience doesn't belong in a smaller club. It sucks the other club went under, but I'd say that hopefully there would still be a subsection who care enough to support a scene and a sound that isn't the big trend of the moment. Perhaps that's idealistic

  On 7/3/2011 at 2:28 AM, jim said:

you should have read on

that's possible, i'm sorry if i was unnecessarily rude.

  On 7/3/2011 at 2:41 AM, Awepittance said:

yes because being booked means your obligated to entertain an audience full of drunk fucks who couldn't give two shits about you instead of having a chance to show them some truly interesting stuff, make them scratch their heads a bit, maybe get a few to dance, but it's much more satisfying just to throw on a 4/4 the whole night and watch the coke kick in.

yes, sadly. that's what you're paid for. i guess that's why we have different types of clubs, that books different types of DJs, though.

LOL! this is the last time I'll every DJ in this town! Actually, I didn't even DJ. When I was setting up, I looked up at the people and they all looked like they were over 50 and didn't look like they'd be interested in the stuff I mixed. If anything, they looked like they'd complain about it. I got the manger of the place over and he looked really nervous and I told him "I don't think these people would like what I'm going to do!" and he agreed but didn't know what else to do.

So then I talked to my friend who was playing with his jazz band and he and the band agreed to play an hour early and use an iPod for intermissions.

At least I got free food and $75 for my trouble. :)

The jazz band LOLed at me for getting paid for doing nothing but showing up! I should do that more often!

I've done shows like that before, things like people's birthdays where a band won't stop playing, as long as you get paid it's all good for something like that I suppose... but I'd be annoyed if I was looking forwards to playing and it all went down the tubes!

The way I see it, I did the guy a favor by not playing last night. It was still dinner crowd hours and I didn't want to blast minimal techno while they eat. I stuck around though because some people came to see me and i just hung out with them instead and explained the situation to them. But yeah, I should be more mindful of where to accept to play.

at least you lot get opportunities to play, no matter how the audience is.

where i live that shit does not happen. unless its dubstep. period.

im lucky enough to have fun making bmore club music and having people drop it in mixes around here now and then....but a live performance? wont ever happen...unless i wanna pay for all the system shit myself and play in my backyard.

So anyway, previously huge DJs who are now washed up.

Paul Oakenfold, 2011

What the fuck is this?? Shit tunes. Shit mixing. Bro's loving this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtOSCdXpWWg

To be fair Oakenfold isn't washed up, fucking shite perhaps but it's not like anyone isn't going to turn up to his shows

oh this has turned in a live vs dj thing

putting live behind your name seems to be the cool thing to do these days

but half just "dj" or even prerecord a set with exclusively their music, just with some added effects and other bling blang blow to make it more live sounding

thb DJ sets with 1/3 own tracks and the rest other stuff is alot more interesting to my ears.

the faux live hype will pass...

  On 7/3/2011 at 8:54 PM, asymmetrical head said:

The way I see it, I did the guy a favor by not playing last night. It was still dinner crowd hours and I didn't want to blast minimal techno while they eat. I stuck around though because some people came to see me and i just hung out with them instead and explained the situation to them. But yeah, I should be more mindful of where to accept to play.

you should have started your set on the quiet side to gauge their vibe. then slowly increased the volume until you were getting strange looks and finally blasting gantz graf in their faces. then you could have dropped the mic on the ground and left, sexual chocolate style.

  On 7/4/2011 at 12:22 AM, Solo Strike said:

To be fair Oakenfold isn't washed up, fucking shite perhaps but it's not like anyone isn't going to turn up to his shows

True. My friend got me into a club in Vegas for free and Oakenfold turned out to be djing. I was just yelling at my friends as to how shit he was, but they couldn't even hear me critique his segues.

Fuckers.

  On 7/4/2011 at 1:42 AM, Ranky Redlof said:

oh this has turned in a live vs dj thing

putting live behind your name seems to be the cool thing to do these days

but half just "dj" or even prerecord a set with exclusively their music, just with some added effects and other bling blang blow to make it more live sounding

thb DJ sets with 1/3 own tracks and the rest other stuff is alot more interesting to my ears.

the faux live hype will pass...

The hype has already passed! The technology is readily available to perform electronic music live, the DJ (again talking about a certain type) doesn't need to exist anymore, except as a cheap form of entertainment for people who want to dance and don't really care what to...

Total agreement with Jim there. The technology takes a lot of the skill out of it now. But there are still a number of DJs I would pay good money to see.

I remember seeing DJ Yoda mashing the fuck out of 4 technics 1210s around 2001. The guy never stood still for the duration of his 2 hour set - and he must have ploughed through a couple of hundred vinyl no problem. Never heard a beat clash for the entire set, and all 4 decks were always full or being switched over. James Zabiela is another guy I would consider to be an awesome DJ - he will do the same with 4 CDJs, Kaoss pads, effects and other samplers. Very entertaining to watch and his set progresions are outstanding.

Even circa 2000 I caught Oaken$old at a gatecrasher gig - again using 1210s. His beatmatching was spot on, some of the transitions lasted for minutes and the drops were timed to perfection. Sheer class, with a great build throughout the set. Just at the end of the peak of the superstar DJ period - must have been 10000 people in there going nuts.

If you look at that youtube video I linked he is just fannying around with a couple of CDs. Walking around the decks, clapping to the crowd and doing a funny shoulder hunch bro style wave, then doing a shit 6-second "mix" between tracks that sounds terrible. No thought has gone into the track selection, no planning into the transitions, but plenty of dont give a fuck attitude.

The local DJs at the ritzy clubs in Oxford would do a much better job.

Watched Nick Hoppner do a five hour vinyl set at Plastic People on Saturday. Completely restored my faith in DJing. Quite literally blew my mind.

I get really frustrated with people feeling the need to compare playing an instrument with playing a live electronic set with being a DJ. There is only so much to be said for how much you enjoy it because of the technique being employed to give you music. I can't believe this thread gave birth to the idea that a DJ is inferior for trying to entertain people! I nearly soiled my keks when I read that.

I think the spontinaeity that you are capable of as a DJ is what makes it a lot of fun to experience. I generally find live electronic sets are a lot more boring and chin stroky, and despite the amount of control you theoretically have they are often a lot less spontaneous than a good mix.