Headphone vs. Monitor Producing

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, it's probably a well known thingy anyways, but thought it of some relevance to this topic.

one trick I've found helps a lot when you're working on headphones is to take them off and put them round your neck and listen from there. not sure why (I expect there is some name for the phenomenon) but it's a really good why of highlighting any issues with levels. I do this quite a lot when I'm working on stuff, if I'm unsure about the level of something. surprisingly effective.

It's similar to listening to your mix from outside the room, though slightly less anti social :)

@Halisray, any ideas about what monitors you want to get yet?

Oh, also another useful thing a friend showed me a while back, again probably common knowledge. When you're working on your mix down through monitors, a good way to isolate yourself from room reverberation is to cup your hands behind your ears. Effectively you're stopping the sound reflecting from the back wall and corners. Looks and feels a bit silly, but makes a considerable difference!

Took this too an extreme once, was getting so annoyed with the room I had at the time, horrible acoustics, and I had to finish a track for a tight deadline. Ended up getting a large feather blanket and draping one end over my monitors and the other over my head, making a kinda tent. Killed the reflections nicely, but got well hot really quickly!

I've noticed my shitty av40 monitors don't really pick up the higher frequencies. They definitely sound different. My cheap HD 202 headphones amplifies the higher frequencies. I mean the main difference is the EQ.

When I master the tracks, I basically go off of my monitors. It really depends on how you listen to it, and you'd master it differently. Party music should be based off of fat subs.

  On 7/17/2011 at 5:30 AM, TechDiff said:

Took this too an extreme once, was getting so annoyed with the room I had at the time, horrible acoustics, and I had to finish a track for a tight deadline. Ended up getting a large feather blanket and draping one end over my monitors and the other over my head, making a kinda tent. Killed the reflections nicely, but got well hot really quickly!

I used to do something like this when recording @ my old place. The street-noise was so noticeable in the recordings that I had to take my comforter and put it in a circus-tent fashion over me and the microphone. Cut the street noise down a ton, but was very uncomfortable and hot.

Nice thread, I feel like I need a sub for my monitors, I have krk 6's but they just don't get as low as I want them to and I find that my mixes are either too soft on the sub-end or WAAAY too loud.

P.S. Techdiff, are you the man behind ROT13 - that random EP that came out on Meganeural? It was really good and I think I remember you were connected to it in some way...

I bought the Beyer 880dt cans cause they were supposed to be the best, but I prefer the superlux hd681 cans cause I can manage the bass. Also got the Yam hs50m monitors, but without the sub, so the hd681 cans have become vital. Definitely shouldn't rely on nearfields since most rooms suck. Rely on the cans, check your mix against pro mixes on the same system you're mixing on, don't wait till you get in the car or on sound cloud.

Yeah I got some sweet 600$ cans yesterday. Pretty expensive but the acoustics are so good. Really brings out the details. I didn't feel like I'd wasted my money because the acoustics are so good. Great cans.

anyone here have experience with these small in-ear monitoring headphones? How do they measure up against the big can headphones?

Neither. I just look at the waveforms and know exactly what it sounds like.

  On 5/11/2014 at 2:24 PM, zkreso said:

Neither. I just look at the waveforms and know exactly what it sounds like.

hey! are you burial?!

in one interview you said that you produce in soundforge and that you can tell how samples sound just by looking at the 'fishbones'

nice to meet you! ...a big fan of yours!

Chiming in on this thread to repeat what was already posted to push this fact into the IDM realmz as hard as possible:

Monitors will definitely make your mixes more open, 3-D, and well-balanced.

I used to use Dynaudio BM5A monitors, Sennheiser HD590 headphones.

There is definitely some sort of balance accuracy (besides just bass) that can be accomplished with monitor mixing. Monitor mixing, then listen to track on headphones- Holy FUCK- it's loud, but light/open. Sounds pro, mang. That specific kind of balance is something that I've never been able to accomplish with headphone mixing alone. Headphone mixing is really good for headphone-only-listening music, though, like binaural recordings, etc.

Part of the problem seems to be that with headphones- with those cans right in front of your ears- certain freq stick out or are hidden (so you adjust), that don't sound too loud or hidden with monitors (due to freq mixing and dancing in da air). But if you mix with monitors then listen on headphones, the balance that's achieved just seems to make a lot of sense.

I really really miss mixing on proper monitors. I've been using kind of shit headphones and proper shitty laptop speakers for mixing the past couple years, and the clarity achieved in my music is barely-acceptable.

For me, monitors are required for the nextest-level mixing.

  On 5/11/2014 at 3:45 PM, peace 7 said:

For me, monitors are required for the nextest-level mixing.

most untreated rooms will cause buildups and standing waves that make it difficult for me to make critical decisions. i use the monitors to relax my ears from the headphones.

but really, the mixing and imagination skills of the sound design trump monitoring.

one trick is to put the best track you have heard (by someone else) on its own, mute it, and occasionally solo it to see how your mix holds up. usually my mixing and sound design sucks and thats the reason my mixing and sound design sucks. (composition, etc)

For the freq room bouncy buildup ting issue, I had my workstation setup in a non-symmetrical room. I always wanted to try that cheap hack of putting up rolls of insulation in the corners to tighten bass, but I never got around to it.

Something I also never tried: I thought of building a studio containment unit with cardboard boxes, which when viewed from the top, would be a triangle. So basically the monitor sound would still get air, but everything but the path to the sweet spot would be blocked. I imagine audio might get fucked up in the cardboard resonant freq range, but I didn't really work out the bugs.

when I first started making computer music over ten years ago I kept on saying I'll get monitors. maybe monitors make mixing easier, I don't know for sure. I just use koss Porta-Pro headphones while composing and mixing.. and burn a test cdr for my car (mostly to double check bass) and go back for any needed final tweaks. I've gotten good at it, but like someone here mentioned, you need to get to know your headphones.

I've always found that headphones combined with knowing how to reference and some visual mixing can get me results.

I mostly use my trusty akg 271's to tweak the sound, swithcing it up with my monitors, which are really arse and boomy, but I know they are. When I think I'm nearing completion I check my mix on a couple of my other headphones and sound systems around the house, if it sounds equally shit on all of them I call it a day and delete the file.

  On 5/11/2014 at 11:51 PM, skibby said:

 

  On 5/11/2014 at 3:45 PM, peace 7 said:

For me, monitors are required for the nextest-level mixing.

 

most untreated rooms will cause buildups and standing waves that make it difficult for me to make critical decisions. i use the monitors to relax my ears from the headphones.

 

but really, the mixing and imagination skills of the sound design trump monitoring.

 

one trick is to put the best track you have heard (by someone else) on its own, mute it, and occasionally solo it to see how your mix holds up. usually my mixing and sound design sucks and thats the reason my mixing and sound design sucks. (composition, etc)

 

i dunno i combine sounds so i like how it sounds, but i don't really mix tracks. seems like it's more of a old school band, studio thing. a lot of my favorite recordings of other music is live to two or 4 track (often with heavy editing after) anyway. if it sounds like shit i'd mostly rather just do it over because if i try to "mix" to finish a track it ends up overworked. since i'm using digi recordings, samples or sequences, i can keep going without degradation and try again.

anyway, monitors. i tried waaay more expensive ones, but i like the mackie mr5 mk2's i have a lot.. and the mk3's seem even better and cheaper. i think i'd have to spend a lot to get my room treated to really notice much with the nicer speakers. i rent so there's not even that much more i could do.

i do use rock wool insulation in some frames i made though. it seems to work okay, is pretty cheap and doesn't look terrible because you can cover it in whatever fabric you want. i don't like rugs though, so floor reflections are probably the biggest problem.

always member to check ur mix in mums car

Due awful acoustic space in my room I make all my stuff in headphones (HD600) since I started work at home. I bought small presonus monitors for check mono/stereo image in real space. Also it's always good to take off your headphones and just concentrate on arrangement or sound design...

  On 5/15/2014 at 9:24 PM, RadarJammer said:

always member to check ur mix in mums car

always

  On 5/30/2014 at 1:05 AM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 5/15/2014 at 9:24 PM, RadarJammer said:

always member to check ur mix in mums car

always

 

you know his mum?!

  On 5/30/2014 at 7:08 PM, xox said:

 

  On 5/30/2014 at 1:05 AM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 5/15/2014 at 9:24 PM, RadarJammer said:

always member to check ur mix in mums car

 

always

you know his mum?!

edit: or all ways, amiright

Strictly monitors for me unless it's late at night and I feel that I want to be nice to my neighbours.

I only have small 5" monitors but the tracks always translate better to headphones if being made/mixed on monitors. Tracks made/mixed on headphones on the other hand, always turn out terrible on speakers for me. I almost always have to go back to correct something.

Monitors ! Also I have some nice headphones (Focal Spirit Pro), I enjoy my APS Coax + IsoAcoustics stands much, much more. Now that I know them, I can trust them 100%. I know my room like the back of my hand too.

For music making, headphones sound claustrophobic to me (no matter how linear they are), I use them to double check stuffs and that's it.

  On 5/11/2014 at 2:08 PM, Djeroek said:

anyone here have experience with these small in-ear monitoring headphones? How do they measure up against the big can headphones?

I own some. Convenient when listening to music in the street/bus/subway, but no way I'd do any music with them. Way to bassy and no "air" at all, too close to the eardrums to be reliable.

some of the best music sounds terrible