Reason 6

reason IS a plugin

  On 7/13/2011 at 8:34 AM, ZoeB said:

No MIDI out and no plug-ins are also why Reason and Record are so simple and so stable. I tried using Logic again the other day (it had been something like a decade). I must have spent a full ten minutes trying to work out how to change the default plug-in into something else, like one that I'd downloaded a demo of. Create > Whatever is so much easier, and frankly it's nice that all the devices are designed by the same people and so they all look and act consistently with one another.

lol, girl is sad about spending ten minutes trying to make a default plugin how cute. haha just joshin, ya I totally see your completely valid points and those are mindsets that Propellerheads has had in not including those functions, along with being able to transfer projects back and forth between different rigs without third party problems.. but fuck there are some fucking amazing VSTs out there, I feel like I'm missing out on there amazing potential using Reason alone. I really should figure out how to get Reason Rewired back into Reaper and be able to use all 4 of my cores so it's not unnecessarily limiting my CPU and I can indeed just use Reason like a separate plugin in my DAW (Without CPU devastation)

  On 7/13/2011 at 8:34 AM, ZoeB said:

No MIDI out and no plug-ins are also why Reason and Record are so simple and so stable. I tried using Logic again the other day (it had been something like a decade). I must have spent a full ten minutes trying to work out how to change the default plug-in into something else, like one that I'd downloaded a demo of. Create > Whatever is so much easier, and frankly it's nice that all the devices are designed by the same people and so they all look and act consistently with one another.

I understand the plug-in bit, but how would MIDI out destabilize the program?

I've always liked reason and it helps me not get bogged down in sound design and stuff when I don't have much time to make music and I'm really more interested in composition or structure. I am using reason 4 mainly but I do want to work more with audio and I'll go to logic for that.

  On 7/13/2011 at 8:21 PM, Root5 said:

I understand the plug-in bit, but how would MIDI out destabilize the program?

Good point, it wouldn't make it less stable, but it would make it more complicated, when you get into things like linking each MIDI channel to its own audio channel and so on.

imo reason could have a better sequencer

Reason 5's sequencer pissed me off when I first got it, but obviously you get used to it. The only thing is , I never use Reason's audio recording or Kong drum machine, because it was giving me nothing new that I couldn't do with Redrum and Dr. Rex and other recording software I already had (in terms of the new audio recording feature). and I hate the new Dr Rex...so because of my disappointment with Reason 5 i'm cynical about Reason 6, which makes me sad.

One thing that has always appealed to me about Reason is that it has these really simple basic effects that for a while you just use as is; until you get more familiar with them and how you can work these effects together. It's like the new delay...it's got nothing new, just loads of effects on one panel...so it IS a shortcut, I'll admit that. But you still have a delay in Reason now, you have a filter, the RV7000 reverb and CV connections on the back of all of these which can be attached to ANY LFO on ANY of the devices. I liken it to lego...you can get the box of a castle and build what you've been told to build and what they've advertised, or you can use what you've already got and build what you want and have more possibilities.

I think with music software, the musicians have what they need for now. Everything that has come out recently feels like a shortcut. I know it's just me, but I'm not excited about music software anymore, I don't feel like a musician, I just feel like a consumer of their new and improved super-synth effect toy thingy...i'm much more into the DIY be more creative route. Thanks everyone

You're not the only one, I think that Reason got a little weird after they added stuff like Combinator. That started the trend towards adding more and more shortcuts and userfriendly machinery, marketing friendly gear. While I think all they should have been working on is adding more quality to the current effects and instruments. The filters in Thor are really sweet, but there's no way to have them seperate, which was what I really loved about the initial releases.

It's not some sort of professional stance I'm taking either, some sort of arcane difficulty for difficulties sake I lust for.. it's more that they left the path that they initially set out, and started compromising to make da big bucks. Worked out for them, so yeah fuck it. Smug bastards. I still like Reason 5, but it's getting overloaded with gimicky shit. Like LEGO did too I guess eh!

Seriously, the sign that a software company is starting to stray from it's goals, is when they start manufacturing their own hardware.

  On 7/14/2011 at 3:11 PM, yek said:

imo reason could have a better sequencer

  On 7/14/2011 at 2:54 PM, ZoeB said:

  On 7/13/2011 at 8:21 PM, Root5 said:

I understand the plug-in bit, but how would MIDI out destabilize the program?

 

Good point, it wouldn't make it less stable, but it would make it more complicated, when you get into things like linking each MIDI channel to its own audio channel and so on.

Why would it? You could just do it on your own. You could have one midi channel going out, and one audio channel going in. You wouldn't need to connect them. You could just label them well if you wanted to remember which was which.

  On 7/14/2011 at 4:54 PM, a missing sense said:

You're not the only one, I think that Reason got a little weird after they added stuff like Combinator. That started the trend towards adding more and more shortcuts and userfriendly machinery, marketing friendly gear. While I think all they should have been working on is adding more quality to the current effects and instruments. The filters in Thor are really sweet, but there's no way to have them seperate, which was what I really loved about the initial releases.

 

It's not some sort of professional stance I'm taking either, some sort of arcane difficulty for difficulties sake I lust for.. it's more that they left the path that they initially set out, and started compromising to make da big bucks. Worked out for them, so yeah fuck it. Smug bastards. I still like Reason 5, but it's getting overloaded with gimicky shit. Like LEGO did too I guess eh!

 

Seriously, the sign that a software company is starting to stray from it's goals, is when they start manufacturing their own hardware.

I agree with you in spirit. I wish they focused on stuff like making the program more modular. There should be a small lfo box that is half rack, and just has a really good lfo on it. And they should add a hi pass filter to the filter box.

But I disagree with you about the combinator. The combinator is really really really useful. You can use it a cv control any parameter, even ones that couldn't be cv controlled before.

Also, it's not strictly true that we're getting nothing new. The new effects aren't just combinations of the old effects. They have new functionality we didn't have before.

  On 7/14/2011 at 7:35 PM, Root5 said:

I agree with you in spirit. I wish they focused on stuff like making the program more modular. There should be a small lfo box that is half rack, and just has a really good lfo on it. And they should add a hi pass filter to the filter box.

 

But I disagree with you about the combinator. The combinator is really really really useful. You can use it a cv control any parameter, even ones that couldn't be cv controlled before.

 

Also, it's not strictly true that we're getting nothing new. The new effects aren't just combinations of the old effects. They have new functionality we didn't have before.

Heh I always reuse LFO's from Subtractor for that, definetly should have been there already.

I wasn't implying that they are only adding combined rehashes of existing effects.. Thor is really cool, and the drumsynths & FX in Kong are great. but wouldn't it be nice if they modularized those? if we could have the filters without adding that big rack. The combinator is alright and has it's uses, but what you're saying about CV controlable stuff: they could just as easily have made everything CV controlable.

Heh, maybe I just want to see a more pure "Reason Modular" instead of a "Reason flashy Synth & FX Rack". Big and shiny Synths and Effects with huge UI's.. I'll accept it and just use what is there.

The beauty of Reason still is the integration of a quality sequencer with a patchable environment that is incredibly stable.

Anyway interesting discussion, I haven't thought of or used Reason much at all lately but maybe I'll give combinator another try tonight.. When I used it in the past I always had a nice machine at the end of a session and no tune. I never worked much with presets in Reason, none of my own either. I juse wanted to get tunes out. But since I expanded to other softwares I started keeping presets and sounds. Will see.

  On 7/14/2011 at 9:08 PM, a missing sense said:

  On 7/14/2011 at 7:35 PM, Root5 said:

I agree with you in spirit. I wish they focused on stuff like making the program more modular. There should be a small lfo box that is half rack, and just has a really good lfo on it. And they should add a hi pass filter to the filter box.

 

But I disagree with you about the combinator. The combinator is really really really useful. You can use it a cv control any parameter, even ones that couldn't be cv controlled before.

 

Also, it's not strictly true that we're getting nothing new. The new effects aren't just combinations of the old effects. They have new functionality we didn't have before.

Heh I always reuse LFO's from Subtractor for that, definetly should have been there already.

 

I wasn't implying that they are only adding combined rehashes of existing effects.. Thor is really cool, and the drumsynths & FX in Kong are great. but wouldn't it be nice if they modularized those? if we could have the filters without adding that big rack. The combinator is alright and has it's uses, but what you're saying about CV controlable stuff: they could just as easily have made everything CV controlable.

 

Heh, maybe I just want to see a more pure "Reason Modular" instead of a "Reason flashy Synth & FX Rack". Big and shiny Synths and Effects with huge UI's.. I'll accept it and just use what is there.

 

The beauty of Reason still is the integration of a quality sequencer with a patchable environment that is incredibly stable.

 

Anyway interesting discussion, I haven't thought of or used Reason much at all lately but maybe I'll give combinator another try tonight.. When I used it in the past I always had a nice machine at the end of a session and no tune. I never worked much with presets in Reason, none of my own either. I juse wanted to get tunes out. But since I expanded to other softwares I started keeping presets and sounds. Will see.

So now I agree with you word for word. Reason modular would be the best. I try to accept the fact that I have to do extra routing by thinking that at least it's harder for other people, so my music will be more original. But yes, the whole program should be modular. Ever osc, every filter, every lfo should be a half rack device, and every parameter should have a cv input on the back.

woah that would be awesome, I would probably miss some of the directness of the synths though, maybe then Combinator would have to get a big upgrade so we could make synthesizer/fx presets like in Reaktor.

  On 7/14/2011 at 9:33 PM, a missing sense said:

woah that would be awesome, I would probably miss some of the directness of the synths though, maybe then Combinator would have to get a big upgrade so we could make synthesizer/fx presets like in Reaktor.

Well it already can. You just need to load it with a lot of subtractors and stuff to get the routing you want.

hah yeah, that route, I get it.. but I mean like, recreate your own Subtractor out of oscillator/filter parts and skin it, like in Reaktor. I'm just thinking out loud.

  On 7/14/2011 at 9:11 PM, Root5 said:

  On 7/14/2011 at 9:08 PM, a missing sense said:

  On 7/14/2011 at 7:35 PM, Root5 said:

I agree with you in spirit. I wish they focused on stuff like making the program more modular. There should be a small lfo box that is half rack, and just has a really good lfo on it. And they should add a hi pass filter to the filter box.

 

But I disagree with you about the combinator. The combinator is really really really useful. You can use it a cv control any parameter, even ones that couldn't be cv controlled before.

 

Also, it's not strictly true that we're getting nothing new. The new effects aren't just combinations of the old effects. They have new functionality we didn't have before.

Heh I always reuse LFO's from Subtractor for that, definetly should have been there already.

 

I wasn't implying that they are only adding combined rehashes of existing effects.. Thor is really cool, and the drumsynths & FX in Kong are great. but wouldn't it be nice if they modularized those? if we could have the filters without adding that big rack. The combinator is alright and has it's uses, but what you're saying about CV controlable stuff: they could just as easily have made everything CV controlable.

 

Heh, maybe I just want to see a more pure "Reason Modular" instead of a "Reason flashy Synth & FX Rack". Big and shiny Synths and Effects with huge UI's.. I'll accept it and just use what is there.

 

The beauty of Reason still is the integration of a quality sequencer with a patchable environment that is incredibly stable.

 

Anyway interesting discussion, I haven't thought of or used Reason much at all lately but maybe I'll give combinator another try tonight.. When I used it in the past I always had a nice machine at the end of a session and no tune. I never worked much with presets in Reason, none of my own either. I juse wanted to get tunes out. But since I expanded to other softwares I started keeping presets and sounds. Will see.

 

So now I agree with you word for word. Reason modular would be the best. I try to accept the fact that I have to do extra routing by thinking that at least it's harder for other people, so my music will be more original. But yes, the whole program should be modular. Ever osc, every filter, every lfo should be a half rack device, and every parameter should have a cv input on the back.

That would be incredible...i might dedicate my life to making software like that

  On 7/14/2011 at 3:45 PM, Swerm said:

Kong... was giving me nothing new that I couldn't do with Redrum and Dr. Rex

Well it has sixteen different channels, each of which can have multiple samples (NN-Nano, add layer), which is a pretty useful feature in itself... not to mention it finally has its own built-in sounds for when you just want to get on with composing instead of finding the absolute best samples... but yeah, this added complexity means I end up using Redrum more still, just because it's so quick and easy to fill it up with Tape 808 and 909 samples...

  On 7/14/2011 at 3:45 PM, Swerm said:

CV connections on the back of all of these which can be attached to ANY LFO on ANY of the devices.

I'd suggest

  On 7/14/2011 at 7:35 PM, Root5 said:

I wish they focused on stuff like making the program more modular. There should be a small lfo box that is half rack, and just has a really good lfo on it. And they should add a hi pass filter to the filter box.

Yes! All of those modular looking oscillators and filters in Thor should actually be, say, half-U modules. Sure, maybe some of their users will be too intimidated to use them, but patch designers would probably love the flexibility. The beauty of Combinator is that you could then take these messy, elaborate modular setups and tidy them away behind a glossy façade, and then sell ReFills of them that look quite simple but are actually full of complex, modular setups with obscene amounts of oscillators and the like. ^.^ I really hope they do this one day...

  On 7/15/2011 at 9:06 AM, ZoeB said:

  On 7/14/2011 at 3:45 PM, Swerm said:

Kong... was giving me nothing new that I couldn't do with Redrum and Dr. Rex

 

Well it has sixteen different channels, each of which can have multiple samples (NN-Nano, add layer), which is a pretty useful feature in itself... not to mention it finally has its own built-in sounds for when you just want to get on with composing instead of finding the absolute best samples... but yeah, this added complexity means I end up using Redrum more still, just because it's so quick and easy to fill it up with Tape 808 and 909 samples...

I think the I just never gave the Kong a chance to fit in with my workflow. I have very specific techniques when I'm working with Redrum or Dr. Rex or any of the samplers, and Kong didn't fit in with it. It's quite good fun though.

About automation instead of LFO's, can't say I agree...you can get much more interesting effects if you use some of the zanier LFO waves ha...anyway you have all those tools at your disposal why not use everything? Interesting videos btw, did you make them or is it just a youtube randomer?

  On 7/15/2011 at 3:02 PM, Swerm said:

Interesting videos btw, did you make them or is it just a youtube randomer?

Yeah, I made them, hence I go into detail about how I made my music. ;)

  On 7/15/2011 at 9:10 AM, ZoeB said:

  On 7/14/2011 at 3:45 PM, Swerm said:

CV connections on the back of all of these which can be attached to ANY LFO on ANY of the devices.

 

I'd suggest

...

  On 7/15/2011 at 3:02 PM, Swerm said:

About automation instead of LFO's, can't say I agree...you can get much more interesting effects if you use some of the zanier LFO waves ha...

i think it's a bit hard to draw a perfect sine wave like the ones on the lfos...

plus, then you can't automate the rate of this sine wave you just drew... like you do on the lfos...

  On 7/17/2011 at 9:26 PM, THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON said:

  On 7/15/2011 at 9:10 AM, ZoeB said:

  On 7/14/2011 at 3:45 PM, Swerm said:

CV connections on the back of all of these which can be attached to ANY LFO on ANY of the devices.

 

I'd suggest

...

 

  On 7/15/2011 at 3:02 PM, Swerm said:

About automation instead of LFO's, can't say I agree...you can get much more interesting effects if you use some of the zanier LFO waves ha...

i think it's a bit hard to draw a perfect sine wave like the ones on the lfos...

 

plus, then you can't automate the rate of this sine wave you just drew... like you do on the lfos...

There's a good work around. You just load the device into a combinator, have a combinator parameter modify the device's parameter, and the modify the combinator's parameter with an lfo. The only restriction is that you can only have 4 per combinator. I haven't really exceeded that yet.

My objection to every parameter not being modifiable directly by cv isn't because I can't find another way. It's more of a principled thing. I with reason was going in a more modular direction. But I can still use it for what I want.

  On 7/17/2011 at 9:26 PM, THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON said:

i think it's a bit hard to draw a perfect sine wave like the ones on the lfos...

I've never once had anyone complain of my music "but you're modulating the paramters with crudely drawn sine waves!" I don't think it's something that should keep you up at night. :)

  On 7/17/2011 at 9:26 PM, THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON said:

plus, then you can't automate the rate of this sine wave you just drew... like you do on the lfos...

Yeah, as I mention in the video, if you want to automate the rate of the modulation (or simply don't want to tempo sync it), that's a good reason to use an LFO. If you want it to seamlessly oscillate between very slow and very fast modulation, automate an LFO. If you want to make lots of drastic and precise changes, or simply want to tempo sync it, automating's probably the way to go.

Maybe I just got needlessly excited that I'd finally worked out and consciously articulated the distinction of when it was best to do one or the other. :)

:sup: