ethics of selling records

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

I think it's a bit too easy to hide behind the fact that 'the markets dictate the price'... Nonsense! The markets are people, and people make choices. You don't agree with something, but do it yourself anyway, you keep it alive. Guess a lot of people agree with what goes on... or do a lot of hiding.

 

I agree in that I don't condone the practice but it really is the market, such as in your example, there are douchbags out there trying selling a 20 quid record for 70, but also no shortage of saps willing to pay 70 for it. No one's putting a gun to anyone's head, it takes two to tango.

 

I just don't get the collectiblity angle at all, music was meant to be enjoyed, records were meant to be played, not held up as some sort of physical relic to idolize. You want to sell some ultra-rare vinyl only release for whatever, only to be jacked up on the aftermarket that's cool, just know that there's a bunch of people out there who are going to pirate the shit out of it.

I had a go at doing this not so long ago, just to see how easy it was. I bought Aphex Selected Ambient Works 1 at Sister Ray in London for £15 brand new. That night I logged into my amazon account (knowing full well that amazon vinyl market place goes for extortionate prices) and put it up for sale for £45. Within a week I had a buyer.

 

Do you know what? For some reason I cancelled his order and told him it was unavailabe. I couldn't bring myself to rip a fellow Aphex Twin fan off. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. And it's the reason why I will never be rich as I have never had a souless blood thirsty attitude with $$$$$.

Edited May 21, 2012 by beerwolf

i nearly bought quoth 12" for 4quids, because whoever put it up on ebay just wrote polygon window without a mention of afx so it went unnoticed, with the only intention of selling it for more (it goes for 10-12 i think) as i already have a copy. it felt like such a dick move i passed. don't be dicks, people. just don't.

  On 5/21/2012 at 4:46 AM, Bob Dobalina said:

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

I think it's a bit too easy to hide behind the fact that 'the markets dictate the price'... Nonsense! The markets are people, and people make choices. You don't agree with something, but do it yourself anyway, you keep it alive. Guess a lot of people agree with what goes on... or do a lot of hiding.

 

I agree in that I don't condone the practice but it really is the market, such as in your example, there are douchbags out there trying selling a 20 quid record for 70, but also no shortage of saps willing to pay 70 for it. No one's putting a gun to anyone's head, it takes two to tango.

 

I just don't get the collectiblity angle at all, music was meant to be enjoyed, records were meant to be played, not held up as some sort of physical relic to idolize. You want to sell some ultra-rare vinyl only release for whatever, only to be jacked up on the aftermarket that's cool, just know that there's a bunch of people out there who are going to pirate the shit out of it.

 

That's the real issue. There would be no crazy mark-up, second hand market if people didn't genuinely believe it was worth the price they're paying.

  On 5/21/2012 at 4:56 PM, beerwolf said:

I had a go at doing this not so long ago, just to see how easy it was. I bought Aphex Selected Ambient Works 1 at Sister Ray in London for £15 brand new. That night I logged into my amazon account (knowing full well that amazon vinyl market place goes for extortionate prices) and put it up for sale for £45. Within a week I had a buyer.

 

Do you know what? For some reason I cancelled his order and told him it was unavailabe. I couldn't bring myself to rip a fellow Aphex Twin fan off. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. And it's the reason why I will never be rich as I have never had a souless blood thirsty attitude with $$$$$.

He values Aphex Twin enough to have no problems paying that kind of money for it. I see no issues.

 

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

What gives people the idea they can justify that kind of profit?

The buyer willing to pay that price justifies it. It's his money to do what he wishes with.

 

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

Did they put any work in anything more than sitting in a chair, clicking some buttons on a screen, receiving the goods in the mail, putting it up for sale again and -oh, this must be where the actual work comes in- getting it to the post office to send out to a very lucky customer. That's basically all they need to do. Is that worth 50 Dollars/Pounds/Euro's?

You have to research the product you want to flip. Or already know about it. You don't just go buy whatever record from some yardsale and then post it for profit. I flip clothes and shoes for profit casually. It's kinda difficult to predict what will sell later on and what won't. Theres some pieces I have that will probably not sell. Others I had sold for 3x what I paid for them because suddenly urban lumberjack styles came to be popular so I cashed in on that trend, big time.

Edited May 21, 2012 by couch

  On 5/21/2012 at 9:09 PM, couch said:

  On 5/21/2012 at 4:56 PM, beerwolf said:

I had a go at doing this not so long ago, just to see how easy it was. I bought Aphex Selected Ambient Works 1 at Sister Ray in London for £15 brand new. That night I logged into my amazon account (knowing full well that amazon vinyl market place goes for extortionate prices) and put it up for sale for £45. Within a week I had a buyer.

 

Do you know what? For some reason I cancelled his order and told him it was unavailabe. I couldn't bring myself to rip a fellow Aphex Twin fan off. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. And it's the reason why I will never be rich as I have never had a souless blood thirsty attitude with $$$$$.

He values Aphex Twin enough to have no problems paying that kind of money for it. I see no issues.

 

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

What gives people the idea they can justify that kind of profit?

The buyer willing to pay that price justifies it. It's his money to do what he wishes with.

 

 

 

People may genuinely enjoy music for what it is. Does that mean you're in a position to say they should pay a certain price to show their appreciation for it? Especially if you're the one doing the collecting? Basically you're saying people are idiots for wanting something badly and artist are imbeciles for not asking more for their work.

 

I don't mean to patronize anyone, it's just my opinion on it. I think it's sad to see something that should be about love for music turn into a platform for hardcore business. True, no laws are being broken. It's simply what some people choose to do with the freedom they enjoy... (yeah, I realize that sounds pretty patronizing and I feel like a d**k for doing so )

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

The markets are people, and people make choices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_%28economics%29

  On 5/22/2012 at 11:28 AM, chenGOD said:

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

The markets are people, and people make choices.

http://en.wikipedia....ity_(economics)

 

Interesting read, although I don't see how this counters or fits in with what I previously stated.

 

I know next to nothing about economics, but I can grasp the idea of what determines value for a product. I simply cannot understand why people that contribute absolutely nothing to that product should get a single dime for it. They have nothing to do with the creative process, production, distribution, etc whatsoever. Most are not official resellers, so they don't even pay any taxes. All that they do is set an artificial value that is not theirs to set for the sake of personal gain. That's the way I see it. Convince me otherwise, if you will!

 

Anyway, I won't buy anything that is sold on like this. I have done so in the past, now I know better. In the meantime, records are being snatched away only to appear on Discogs and eBay three, four, five times the price, where they stay for months or years on end, collecting dust, not being enjoyed... (again, I'm only referring to the practice of buying with the sole intent of reselling at an inflated price)

You get no utility from purchasing second-hand records on ebay/amazon etc. Other people do.

  On 5/22/2012 at 10:42 AM, t yst r said:

  On 5/21/2012 at 9:09 PM, couch said:

  On 5/21/2012 at 4:56 PM, beerwolf said:

I had a go at doing this not so long ago, just to see how easy it was. I bought Aphex Selected Ambient Works 1 at Sister Ray in London for £15 brand new. That night I logged into my amazon account (knowing full well that amazon vinyl market place goes for extortionate prices) and put it up for sale for £45. Within a week I had a buyer.

 

Do you know what? For some reason I cancelled his order and told him it was unavailabe. I couldn't bring myself to rip a fellow Aphex Twin fan off. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. And it's the reason why I will never be rich as I have never had a souless blood thirsty attitude with $$$$$.

He values Aphex Twin enough to have no problems paying that kind of money for it. I see no issues.

 

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

What gives people the idea they can justify that kind of profit?

The buyer willing to pay that price justifies it. It's his money to do what he wishes with.

 

 

 

People may genuinely enjoy music for what it is. Does that mean you're in a position to say they should pay a certain price to show their appreciation for it? Especially if you're the one doing the collecting? Basically you're saying people are idiots for wanting something badly and artist are imbeciles for not asking more for their work.

 

I don't mean to patronize anyone, it's just my opinion on it. I think it's sad to see something that should be about love for music turn into a platform for hardcore business. True, no laws are being broken. It's simply what some people choose to do with the freedom they enjoy... (yeah, I realize that sounds pretty patronizing and I feel like a d**k for doing so )

I didn't take it in a patronizing way it's coo yo.

 

Everybody places value on things and that value will only ever be relevant to themselves and their wallet. It's an emotional purchase in that it's a lot more than just the music for that person. For a band they revere, it's so much more. Hence people paying stupid prices for relevant merchandise. Especially if the supply of the item is really low (super limited # of them pressed) but it's a very highly regarded album(the Bathory debut album for example, you would probably drop a G on it if it's real).

 

Bands can be dicks about it too. Opeth released their last album on all kinds of limited edition fanboy circlejerk colored vinyl albums in extremely limited quantities. The band leader for that band is a huge record collecting nerd. So I am sure he gets off on knowing other collectors are treating his albums the same way.

  On 5/22/2012 at 8:08 PM, couch said:

  On 5/22/2012 at 10:42 AM, t yst r said:

  On 5/21/2012 at 9:09 PM, couch said:

  On 5/21/2012 at 4:56 PM, beerwolf said:

I had a go at doing this not so long ago, just to see how easy it was. I bought Aphex Selected Ambient Works 1 at Sister Ray in London for £15 brand new. That night I logged into my amazon account (knowing full well that amazon vinyl market place goes for extortionate prices) and put it up for sale for £45. Within a week I had a buyer.

 

Do you know what? For some reason I cancelled his order and told him it was unavailabe. I couldn't bring myself to rip a fellow Aphex Twin fan off. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. And it's the reason why I will never be rich as I have never had a souless blood thirsty attitude with $$$$$.

He values Aphex Twin enough to have no problems paying that kind of money for it. I see no issues.

 

  On 5/20/2012 at 9:20 PM, t yst r said:

What gives people the idea they can justify that kind of profit?

The buyer willing to pay that price justifies it. It's his money to do what he wishes with.

 

 

 

People may genuinely enjoy music for what it is. Does that mean you're in a position to say they should pay a certain price to show their appreciation for it? Especially if you're the one doing the collecting? Basically you're saying people are idiots for wanting something badly and artist are imbeciles for not asking more for their work.

 

I don't mean to patronize anyone, it's just my opinion on it. I think it's sad to see something that should be about love for music turn into a platform for hardcore business. True, no laws are being broken. It's simply what some people choose to do with the freedom they enjoy... (yeah, I realize that sounds pretty patronizing and I feel like a d**k for doing so )

I didn't take it in a patronizing way it's coo yo.

 

Everybody places value on things and that value will only ever be relevant to themselves and their wallet. It's an emotional purchase in that it's a lot more than just the music for that person. For a band they revere, it's so much more. Hence people paying stupid prices for relevant merchandise. Especially if the supply of the item is really low (super limited # of them pressed) but it's a very highly regarded album(the Bathory debut album for example, you would probably drop a G on it if it's real).

 

Bands can be dicks about it too. Opeth released their last album on all kinds of limited edition fanboy circlejerk colored vinyl albums in extremely limited quantities. The band leader for that band is a huge record collecting nerd. So I am sure he gets off on knowing other collectors are treating his albums the same way.

 

Mornington Crescent