Budget Field Recorder + XLR jacks

  On 7/25/2011 at 2:13 PM, Terpentintollwut said:

Sorry man, I hijacked your thread

 

So the Rode ones are mono ... ? I read that's standard for recording dialogue and stuff, yet I'm really also a field recorder guy, and that's a bit of a letdown, I like my two channels ...

The only way you can record stereo is with 2 mics. Ever. So ya if you wanted stereo shotguns you could set 2 of them up, but that honestly would be defeating the purpose of a shotgun mic. Apples and oranges man, if you want clean individual sounds (dialog) you are going to want that shotgun in mono, if you want a good stereo option for omnidirectional ambiance you would want something in the region of a "small-capsule condenser stereo pair". You can buy specialty pairs that are built from scratch to match their significant other in a standard stereo configuration. Or you can go the route of a "stereo" mic like the Zoom H4n which actually has 2 mics built into it in an XY configuration.

It says the mic on my camera is a stereo shotgun mic. So does it have two mics inside it as well ... ? Thinking about it, the purpose of a shotgun mic IS to pick up sound from the front, and not the left or the right. So I'm confused as to what my camera came with - It's definitely stereo, but like I said it doesn't really get rid of that much sound around it ... but then again, when mixing the audio for the film later on, I can always create my own stereo stuff. Or maybe there's a way to use the XL-2's mic on an external recorder, then I could still use it for recording ambience and stuff, and the Rode one for doing those lovely dialogue scenes.

 

I've been looking into the 550D because of the lower price, but I think I should save up and get the 5D at some point. Hopefully it will drop in price after Canon releases something new. About that Twixtor thing, I've been working with ReTimer for a while. I made this with it:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFnvYPkmQ1M

 

As you can see there's a bit of fucked up effects generated (which I think looks cool in this case), but normally, I don't want those of course. And I imagine with 60 fps footage, chances are much better it will create clean slow-mos digitally.

"stereo shotgun" is pretty badly written, because you're right, it doesn't exist. They probably mean stereo OR shotgun; the mic will have 3 capsules and you can switch between the shotgun and the stereo pattern.

 

Ryan: just to nitpick, the only way you can record stereo is with 2 capsules, which are often found in 1 microphone (Sanken CSS5, Sennheiser MKH418, etc). you probably knew that already.

  On 7/25/2011 at 9:55 PM, A/D said:

the only way you can record stereo is with 2 capsules, which are often found in 1 microphone

so naturally this microphone has a stereo jack or mono? Also there is a question id like to ask, it has always puzzled my brain because i dont know much about microphones: what kind of microphone(s) is used when they record dialogues in movies? do they record in mono or stereo? is it the same kind of microphone used for field recording? i recall watching a vid with Richard Devine making field recording, i remember he was recording some weird sounds under the bridge or something, it gave me quite an impression. so what kind of microphone or microphones are used for this? the thing about 2 capsules in one microphone, something that i didnt know, generated even more questions about all this inside my brain.

A pro stereo mic often terminates in a 5-pin XLR. But yeah, two outputs is basically the same thing. You can get those cheap stereo mics that terminate in stereo 1/8" connectors too.

 

Dialogue in movies is 99.999% recorded with a mono shotgun or hypercardioid, from a handful of mic models.

 

Recording weird echo-y sounds is usually more fun in stereo, because you get a better sense of the space you're in that way. You can do it however you want.

thank you, i begin to understand now

no worries!

  On 7/25/2011 at 9:55 PM, A/D said:

Ryan: just to nitpick, the only way you can record stereo is with 2 capsules, which are often found in 1 microphone (Sanken CSS5, Sennheiser MKH418, etc). you probably knew that already.

lol. i did, but i should have worded it better so thank you for clarifying for the other guys.

hehe </pedantic>

I'm considering getting one of the Rode mics for my birthday. Now I just need to find out which one is the best for me (you know what I'd like to do by now: record clear dialogue with little white noise in a quiet environment and high quality outdoor-field-stuff rather than studio-type things)

 

I always have my little mp3-player with me that has a recording function and an external input for a mic. It only records at 128 kbps but that's still great for capturing e.g. some silly talk on the bus with a mic as good as this, I imagine. I guess I then will have to power the mic with batteries ... ?

Edited July 26, 2011 by Terpentintollwut

yeah, look into a mic that you can power w/batteries, like this guy - about $250 if memory serves. a very good first film mic. get the rode dead cat for it as well, if you want to use it outdoors. find those indie film forums and make your own boom pole, using something like this

ya or the ntg-1 or 2, one of them is battery powered. but honestly don't expect to get decent field recordings out of that. for what you are describing you are going to need a separate stereo pair. honestly if it were me i'd look at something like the zoom h4n as your field recorder with excellent built in mics (EDIT: CAPSULES) for capturing your stereo ambiance recordings, and then you could plug whatever shotgun you choose directly in the xlr inputs on the bottom for dialogue. bit pricey but you are going to want that quality and if you can only have one thing right now you'd be better off with half a decent setup than a complete pile of shit.

 

edited so i don't get in trouble from A/D again...

Edited July 27, 2011 by ryanmcallister

heh. I guess they are just capsules in the H4n. Never thought about it . . now I feel like a dick

 

Anyway terpoderp do what he says he is right!!!

Aww damn it, now I can't decide what I should be getting. Looks like I'm gonna have to decide between recording awesome dialogue OR recording awesome field stuff. Or do you think it's possible to use the H-4N mics in a similar manner as the Rode shotgun ones? It's hard to believe for me that those little H-4N mics are this good. I'll see if I can get some reference material to hear for myself.

 

ryanmcallister, what "complete pile of shit" were you talking about? The little mp3 player thingie? Of course, I would record my serious stuff on other equipment, such as the camera itself. Btw it pisses me off that I apparently need to pay about 300 euro for the H-4N because I'm in Europe.

wasn't talking about anything in particular regarding the piece of shit comment, just meant in the end you'd be happier spending a little more on a few different mics for different purposes than trying to find one that does everything. jack of all trades, master of none kind of thing.

 

the h4n has a "mix to mono" mode that records the two mics as one mono file. you'd think this would introduce phasing issues but I haven't really run into that too much in my experience (must have to do with the alignment of the 2 capsules). this would be what you'd want to do for recording dialogue, but you still are going to pick up a lot of the noise around the target, whereas a shotgun is going to focus more on the person you are recording.

 

i'd probably consider the h4n to be a little more versatile for what you seem to be describing, and you could definitely get results in dialogue with it. then down the road you could get some different mics to specialize in different areas. honestly though i'm recommending the h4n as a field recorder as well, not just a microphone. no matter which way you slice it it will be more pro than using a minidisc player to record onto. think of it as the "DAW" of field recording, you can build up your mic collection later but if you want to just get recording right away it's a good place to start.

  On 7/27/2011 at 4:52 PM, Terpentintollwut said:

Btw it pisses me off that I apparently need to pay about 300 euro for the H-4N because I'm in Europe.

why so? is it much cheaper in other parts of the world? ive raised up my zoom cost up to 393 e, im getting the bundle, 3 tripods, and a windjammer. fk, im left with no money now...

It looked like it was going for 240$ in the USA. Maybe I messed something up though.

 

So that thing sounds really cool, especially as a field recorder. I'll keep it in mind, but first, it looks like I might invest in a camera after all. Great news for me! Mic comes right after that.