Amy Winehouse dead.

  On 7/31/2011 at 5:10 AM, hautlle said:

 

I've done all those drugs and more and I'm not an addict. I just play one on TV :sup:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

but serious, I have done all those drugs, but now I pretty much just smoke some pot and drink some beers. I'll trip out maybe a couple times a year at most too I guess... Just because you have done crack/coke/meth/heroin/whatever drug doesn't mean you'll be addicted. They ARE highly addictive substances yes, but that doesn't justify the whole "ONE HIT WILL HAVE YOU HOOKED FOR LIFE" stigma that surrounds them....

 

For the record, I'm not arguing that if you try them, you will 100% get hooked.

I'm just saying that if you choose to try it that you are aware of the risk involved.

  On 7/31/2011 at 5:31 AM, jefferoo said:

  On 7/31/2011 at 5:10 AM, hautlle said:

 

I've done all those drugs and more and I'm not an addict. I just play one on TV :sup:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

but serious, I have done all those drugs, but now I pretty much just smoke some pot and drink some beers. I'll trip out maybe a couple times a year at most too I guess... Just because you have done crack/coke/meth/heroin/whatever drug doesn't mean you'll be addicted. They ARE highly addictive substances yes, but that doesn't justify the whole "ONE HIT WILL HAVE YOU HOOKED FOR LIFE" stigma that surrounds them....

 

 

For the record, I'm not arguing that if you try them, you will 100% get hooked.

I'm just saying that if you choose to try it that you are aware of the risk involved.

on the contrary, i don't think people understand the risks as much as you would expect. part of the problem is that "drug education" consists of drama, scare tactics, and the occasional outright lie. i remember it clearly -- i was ten, i had no idea what the fuck drugs did, nor did i particularly care. the morbidly obese "officer janice" from the local PD taught the weekly session. to this day, i am not sure if officer janice was male or female. then came all this nonsense about HERE IS WHAT COCAINE DOES TO YOUR BODY, and pinging between gruesome horror, medical trivia, and films with laughably bad acting. it was jumbled nonsense, but i enjoyed it because it was less boring than memorizing the states in the USA or learning long division.

my point: the way it's presented, i imagine some people wind up concluding it's all nonsense... especially once a lad tries a bit of nug 'n' drink.

and that's for people with a brain. some people are just stupid, and don't think about consequences at all.

  On 7/31/2011 at 4:50 AM, jefferoo said:

  On 7/31/2011 at 3:30 AM, abusivegeorge said:

  On 7/30/2011 at 8:12 PM, jefferoo said:

What I meant by "choice" was that you don't choose cancer.

You may not be able to choose to overcome an addiction, but you certainly have 100% choice when you first decide to try heroin or any other addictive, illegal substance.

 

Absolutely, but you do not have a choice whether or not you have the illness. Some people can take heroin and sniff coke/crack and not be afflicted with the illness of addiction.

Dude, I'm sorry, but you're still missing my point completely. If you mess with coke/crack and/or heroin in the first place, you know the game you are playing.

Ah, yes, I had missed your point, but I get it now :-).

ight this shit has gotten enough attention

  On 7/31/2011 at 9:27 AM, impotentwhitecapitalist said:

ight this shit has gotten enough attention

?

you could have NOT opened the thread? or are you telling us to not pay attention anymore, o master of all opinions?

(it makes no sense. spock don't understand)

imo

so don't give it any attention?

(still makes no sense)

good end of thread

i'm not getting the downes syndrome/addict analogy at all.

  On 8/1/2011 at 10:54 AM, keltoi said:

i'm not getting the downes syndrome/addict analogy at all.

They are both illnesses which you cannot change the affliction of having. You're either an addict or your not, you either have downs syndrome or you don't. Some people can use coke/heroin/alcohol and never be addicted. Unfortunately those who have the illness of addiction will always become an addict. I am sure however there are addicts out there, that have the illness, but never try the drugs. I know a man who suffers all the mental attributes of a dry drunk, he suffers the same mental torture an addict/alcoholic does, he doesn't drink or take drugs however, not after seeing them kill both his parents. He lives in absolute hell, inside of his own head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism

Look down and read the definition and terminology. The part that helps me describe this best is "Once and alcoholic, always an alcoholic". I'm an alcoholic but I don't drink, like almost 2 million others in the world. But we are still alcoholics and always will be. We don't need to drink to be alcoholics. Because it is a mental illness/disease. It something that some people suffer with and other people don't. I had no choice as to whether or not I am an alcoholic, I just am, because I have the illness. Downs syndrome was a far winded analogy I agree, but the same principle applies.

I hope that helps, I'm afraid I can't explain it any better than that.

  On 8/1/2011 at 11:53 AM, abusivegeorge said:

  On 8/1/2011 at 10:54 AM, keltoi said:

i'm not getting the downes syndrome/addict analogy at all.

 

They are both illnesses which you cannot change the affliction of having. You're either an addict or your not, you either have downs syndrome or you don't. Some people can use coke/heroin/alcohol and never be addicted. Unfortunately those who have the illness of addiction will always become an addict. I am sure however there are addicts out there, that have the illness, but never try the drugs. I know a man who suffers all the mental attributes of a dry drunk, he suffers the same mental torture an addict/alcoholic does, he doesn't drink or take drugs however, not after seeing them kill both his parents. He lives in absolute hell, inside of his own head.

down's syndrome is a genetic disorder. addiction is a physical or mental dependance borne from prolonged abuse... abuse being the continued use despite negative consequences. a person with down's syndrome cannot decide to get better in 12 steps, or on the other hand, indulge in self destruction. there is choice for an addict and you are proof of that since getting well. what i'm getting at is an addict is not helpless or oblivious to their affliction, sure someone might have to tell you before you come to terms with it, but a person with down's is completely at the mercy of their condition.

"Unfortunately those who have the illness of addiction will always become an addict."

i don't see how you could validate this statement.

hope i'm not out of line george. you know i'm behind you 100% with regards to your recovery and i've got my reasons for thinking the way i do having watched my brother destroy himself. maybe i'm getting hung up on semantics.

from your link...

  Quote

Like other drug addictions, alcoholism is medically defined as a treatable disease.[2]

I can't explain it any better than I already have, with regards to choice, refer to my previous posts, I've made it quite clear that choices become available. Yes it's treatable, but you're never cured of it. It's a disease for life. As it clearly states in the definition, once an alcoholic, always an alcohlic. The point I was making is we will always have the illness, we will always have an illness, a maladjustment to life that can, if the correct solution isn't taken, always lead us to drink and death. The recovery rate of alcoholics is 2%. Based on worldwide research, surveys, hospital statistics etc. I am in no way shape or form looking for any kind of sympathy or anything like that. I am just trying to express that people don't make a conscious fucking decision to drink themselves to death. It's a disease that simply destroys the brain, all manner of logical thinking goes out of the window. It is quite literally a loss of control, a mental infection of the brain. I do not recognise the person that I was, my whole way of thinking, acting and bahving is TOTALLY different. When I drank, drink was all I knew. The thought of not going to the pub, the thought of not picking up a drink NEVER once entered my head UNTIL I ended up in hospital and a recovered alcoholic told me I would die if I carried on drinking, and that maybe I could have a problem bigger than alcohol and because of that I could not stop drinking, because it was the only thing that numbed my feelings, the pain, the fear, the guilt etc. Of course I did, I drank as the solution to that problem.

I was maladjusted to life, alcohol adjusted me. It's the only thing that ever did, I am lucky that I now have an alcohol free solution to that adjustment, but I MUST continue that solution or the only other solution will be to turn to drink, and yes, in my opinion that would be a choice because I know now that there is another way for me, unfortunately so many people fail and turn back to the drink, because for them they either don't want or are seemingly incapable of following the correct solution, maybe because the illness is too strong in them? I have no idea.

Some people, just can't live without the buzz, they enjoy it until it kills them, if they enjoy it, good luck to them. So many millions more are not so lucky and they die in a pit of despair.

Keltoi, got loads of respect for you mate, I am just finding it very hard to express in words. To be honest I cannot and should not expect anyone to understand, it really isn't easy, in the same way it isn't easy to explain!

Validating my statement keltoi - if you can pick up drink and drugs and use them safely, you're not an addict. If you pick up drink and drugs and get addicted you're an addict. The only addicts who won't get addicted is those that may NEVER touch either.

I guess that could just be an opinion though.

Keltoi, 9 out of 10 alcoholics I know, never became addicted from prolonged abuse, they literally drank alcoholically from day 1 and I'm being dead serious. Some of them drank socially at first, and tried to control but eventually ended up 24/7 drinkers/users.

In my case, I suffered the illness of alcoholism long before I picked up a drink. I suffered the maladjustment to life, the fear, mostly fear of people, the anxiety in CONSTANT afflication of both of these from my very first day at nursery! I became an alcoholic from day one, because the minute I put alcohol into my body it changed the way I felt I wanted that feeling 24/7 I suffered the physical craving from day 1 of drinking. It was great at first I enjoyed, it started to turn my life upside down but I continued to drink, because it still made me feel whole inside. This is why I am an alcoholic, it was my solution. I never started drinking socially, I always drank alcoholically, I picked up my first drink at 14 and by the age of 15 I was drinking every day.

Fuck I'm exhausted lol

Shit I haven't even got started on the mental obsession yet. OK no more posts from me! Sorry for going on.

"Keltoi, got loads of respect for you mate, I am just finding it very hard to express in words. To be honest I cannot and should not expect anyone to understand, it really isn't easy, in the same way it isn't easy to explain!"

Just wanted to make it clear that when I said this I wasn't implying that you didn't understand.

cool george. i know alot of this stuff is hard to explain. i'm struggling myself...

my brother was also socially awkward and insecure after events which happened in his life he couldn't deal with. he was happy and well rounded until high school. i don't believe for a minute he was born with the destructive tendencies that ended him. they accumulated as he nurtured them and indulged himself fully into it. alcoholic level drinking obliterated the person he was and the love and compassion i knew he once had. but he had to work pretty hard to eventually strip himself of his conscience. an alcoholic/addict becomes as selfish and self-indulgent as a person can get (i'm not having a go at you here believe me, you know i'm talking from the perspective of having watched a loved one's demise). as well as the obvious stopping abusing part, i think a recovered addict has trouble shaking those self-indulgent tendencies. i guess maybe i felt that likening alcoholism to a genetic chromosomal abnormality was self-indulgent of you (and addicts in general).

anyway i ramble. i'm not challenging you or your take on it. your openness about your alcoholism is always inspirational.

kel.

100% spot on mate, it is absolutely an illness of self, at first the consequences to my actions and drinking were very little, I was just getting drunk as a teenager ya know, house parties, weekends, pubs with my older sister and her boyfriend, but as my mental state deteriorated I became a thief a liar, and just a generally all round violent person to anyone that I didn't know or love. Those that I did love I forced myself away from. It is very hard to shake the self seeking, selfish motives, but that can be rectified with the 12 steps. One of the crucial things that helps me to stay sober is the constant thought of others, helping other alcohlolics, being here for the family and giving back to where I have taken from for so long. Most of my actions can only be amended by me staying sober and not repeating the same behaviour again and being loving and tolerant towards (this is in practice, of course people are going to fuck me off and I am going to react every now and again).

You're not rambling at all by the way, I am grateful for your interest mate .

I've heard one of the most destructive, debilitating side-effects of addiction is excessive posting on message boards.

(j/k wub )

lol

lol