How do you build a song?

Lately I've been trying to somewhat segregate composing, patch making and producing. I'll compose a catchy tune just using chiptune sounds (a piano sound would probably work better for this), then once I've finished working out the notation for all the different instruments and sections (drums, counter rhythm, bass, lead, counter melody, strings and pads; intro, verses, choruses, bridge, outro), I'll start to work out what sounds all the different instruments should have. Probably a few days later, with a refreshed mind. This is working especially well now I'm dabbling with hardware again.

The complete opposite approach is just to work on everything together, switching effortlessly back and forth between wiring up some sounds and composing music with those sounds, which can also be rewarding. The thing about electronic music is that it can blur the line somewhat between the two concepts. Plus I get inspired pretty easily, so working out a cool trick to make a pleasant sound can make me immediately start mucking around playing a melody, rhythm or chord sequence using that new patch, and before you know it a few hours have passed and I've written a whole track.

I'm not sure either approach is better than the other, and they each work better with a different setup or for a different genre. Experiment with your workflow itself as well as with the actual music making, and see what works best for you.

  On 8/11/2011 at 1:50 PM, ZoeB said:

Lately I've been trying to somewhat segregate composing, patch making and producing. I'll compose a catchy tune just using chiptune sounds (a piano sound would probably work better for this), then once I've finished working out the notation for all the different instruments and sections (drums, counter rhythm, bass, lead, counter melody, strings and pads; intro, verses, choruses, bridge, outro), I'll start to work out what sounds all the different instruments should have. Probably a few days later, with a refreshed mind. This is working especially well now I'm dabbling with hardware again.

 

The complete opposite approach is just to work on everything together, switching effortlessly back and forth between wiring up some sounds and composing music with those sounds, which can also be rewarding. The thing about electronic music is that it can blur the line somewhat between the two concepts. Plus I get inspired pretty easily, so working out a cool trick to make a pleasant sound can make me immediately start mucking around playing a melody, rhythm or chord sequence using that new patch, and before you know it a few hours have passed and I've written a whole track.

 

I'm not sure either approach is better than the other, and they each work better with a different setup or for a different genre. Experiment with your workflow itself as well as with the actual music making, and see what works best for you.

Pretty cool.

I've been thinking about setting aside a few hours here and there to sit down and not make any music, but instead just create patches, samples, loops, effects presets/chains, etc. I just think it would be an interesting experiment to build up a huge library of all of these things to sift through when I actually am making music. Any on here do that?

Yeah, I make percussion loops and hits. Mostly from my own recordings. It helps a lot because I usually start making a song from melodies and when I have done some I can just throw a loop that fits there and sequence it in piano roll. I've also recently started making Sytrus presets, it's fun but doesn't help writing actual songs at all for some reason.

  On 8/11/2011 at 1:50 PM, ZoeB said:

Lately I've been trying to somewhat segregate composing, patch making and producing. I'll compose a catchy tune just using chiptune sounds (a piano sound would probably work better for this), then once I've finished working out the notation for all the different instruments and sections (drums, counter rhythm, bass, lead, counter melody, strings and pads; intro, verses, choruses, bridge, outro), I'll start to work out what sounds all the different instruments should have. Probably a few days later, with a refreshed mind. This is working especially well now I'm dabbling with hardware again.

that sounds tedious.

It depends a lot on what sort of music I'm making, but with electronic music, I'll usually create the synth patch for my bass and then start with composing the chords from there. The melodies that go on top of that get composed around the same time as the basic drum track, and then once I have the melodies/bass working well together I'll complete the drum track. This process can take anywhere from a day to weeks, after which I spend time listening to it and deciding what I want to EQ etc. I'll then mixdown the final master and do post work if there is any, then I put it online etc. :D

Orchestral music (which I haven't made in quite some time) is similiar to the way I start electronic tracks, mostly writing for cello first, then violins, then piano and other higher frequency instruments (like flutes or percussion). The mastering I do on these tracks is very minimal, one of the last orchestral pieces I released is right here if you're curious what the end result sounds like.

With solo piano pieces, I work on the chords first, but my method is slightly different in that instead of selecting a key etc I'll compose the music to progress over almost all the notes in an octave, many times over all of them. Once I have that figured out I'll write the bass melody with half the rhythm, and then finish with the higher octaves, which (usually) compliment the rhythm of the bass, depending on what I want of course. I'm writing an EP of just solo piano pieces right now so we'll have to see how it all works out! I'll probably do a bit of mastering on it but in the past I haven't done much just like with the orchestral music.

i have three ideas, and make two of them.

1. play around with some drums and synths.

2. stick them together.

3. runs out of ideas after 30 minutes.

4. thinks to myself "this is boring" and saves the mp3.

That's how I do a track.

http://www.audiotool.com/

thats it.

made an entire album alone with that program.

  On 8/15/2011 at 10:00 PM, tontonz said:

http://www.audiotool.com/

 

 

thats it.

 

made an entire album alone with that program.

yow! they've added loads since i last used that. thanks for reminding me

with lego

  On 8/15/2011 at 10:50 PM, sonny said:

with lego

and angry fist !!

1. Open up FM8, dick about with some leads until I find a melody I like.

2. Open up a bass synth and improvise over the melody.

3. Try different kick drums to find one that sits nicely with the synths. I'll then paint in kicks accordingly to the bass line and melody.

4. Do the rest of the drums then arrange all the patterns. It's only after arranging that I'll start doing automation and what not. I always save that shit for the end.

  On 8/19/2011 at 1:53 AM, nuclearaddict said:

1. Open up FM8, dick about with some leads until I find a melody I like.

 

2. Open up a bass synth and improvise over the melody.

 

3. Try different kick drums to find one that sits nicely with the synths. I'll then paint in kicks accordingly to the bass line and melody.

 

4. Do the rest of the drums then arrange all the patterns. It's only after arranging that I'll start doing automation and what not. I always save that shit for the end.

i like this approach, mainly because for me, it puts all the hard stuff first and the easy/fun stuff at the end :)

  On 8/1/2011 at 12:25 PM, modey said:

  On 8/1/2011 at 8:16 AM, hahathhat said:

next step is to upload it to WATMM where people will ignore it unless it's a blatant analord ripoff in which case they'll fall over each other in order to ejaculate over it

fixt

right on modey

http://soundcloud.com/nevenen/synthadelic

how i wrote dis fing:

1. Notion to write a song on the computer properly. Had just done that Audiotool track and I was in the mood for plugins. I've been completely up my MPC's ass since last November or so; haven't been doing many VST 'n' audio fings.
   
2. I used to write a lot of VST trax in Cubase SX before I got increasingly sucked into my MPC. Cubase SX is kind of a battlecruiser, though, and I wanted something more jammy
   
3. Many hours of waiting for Ableton to install
   
4. I started working out loops in a manner analogous to how I'm used to doing on the MPC (taking the ideas the hardware has given me back to the computer is a big motivation, here). Using a DAW I wasn't as used to was also a deliberate attempt to break myself out of the habits i have with plugins.
   
5. I fired up my Novation Remote and dragged my hand down the keyboard. Fiddled with patches a bit until I got the noise you hear at 1:01
   
6. Fed the MIDI from that through Ableton's arp widget and got a keyboard line
   
7. Started programming other keyboard and drum lines off of that. Eventually had ~12 loops.
   
8. Used Novation Remote to do a dub-style jam. All I did was push buttons to mute and unmute tracks. With my other hand, I used the mouse to (un)mute the three or four tracks i didn't have buttons for.
   
9. After a few tries I got a jam that was "OK" and that became a skeleton for the track.
   
10. Many, many hours of compulsive editing. I add more loops, synth lines. tweak fx. and envelope editing. jesus fuck, i wish i could wave my hand and scatter perfectly crafted envelopes across the monitor like a god... because it drives me crazy getting them right.
    
11. Track.
    

  On 8/24/2011 at 12:47 PM, hahathhat said:

http://soundcloud.com/nevenen/synthadelicMany, many hours of compulsive editing. I add more loops, synth lines. tweak fx. and envelope editing. jesus fuck, i wish i could wave my hand and scatter perfectly crafted envelopes across the monitor like a god... because it drives me crazy getting them right.

hahaha, use fruity loops.

i used FL3.0 or whatever before it was FL Studio for a bit many years ago. i heard it's gotten better since then. i might give it another try

Charlie Clouser of NIN fame made lots of useful posts about his process and techniques in this thread http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/605445-nine-inch-nails-synths.html

  On 1/18/2012 at 10:15 AM, RadarJammer said:

Charlie Clouser of NIN fame made lots of useful posts about his process and techniques in this thread http://www.gearslutz...ils-synths.html

Nice thread, thanks!

I have some idea I want to try out (beat pattern, instrument ensemble, etc.), get the general idea (fast, slow, which parts, how they transition), divide them up into sections, and try to have a sense of a "feel" for each section, and then mess around on the keyboard, samples on the computer to get the feel that I want to fit in each section.

Most important thing is flow. Sometimes I start in the middle section, and then work outwards. Or I'll do linear from start to end. I'd throw out all the initial ideas if they don't follow the stuff I create, if they disrupt the flow.

It's similar to drawing/painting. The initial ideas is like how in drawing, you do draw layouts and sketches to help giving you a outline and perspective to work off of as you fill in the details later.

Lastly, once I get the entire piece down from start to end in the first draft, I'll listen to them over again, and try to polish off with various details I'd try, like adding more ambient noises or instruments and such.

its often good to just jam out on hardware or a control surface, record the session, pick out the best bits and mix n match to see what works together and what sounds unusual

often you wont 'see' something unless you sit back and listen afterwards when you have a different mindset

ive often jammed thought it was shite then found nuggets when listening back

I used to do it like that, but I found it to be a bit "harder" (more time consuming) to find the right things to work off of. Basically you can just use one or two tracks to serve as the foundation and just build on top of that. Also jamming tends to lean toward things you are more familliar with, not really effective if you are trying out something completely new (like switching from classical-ish to jazz-ish) simply because you don't know what to jam as you don't have the natural tendency with the more familliar style.

  On 1/18/2012 at 2:41 PM, soundwave said:

its often good to just jam out on hardware or a control surface, record the session, pick out the best bits and mix n match to see what works together and what sounds unusual

 

often you wont 'see' something unless you sit back and listen afterwards when you have a different mindset

 

ive often jammed thought it was shite then found nuggets when listening back

  On 8/11/2011 at 1:50 PM, ZoeB said:

Lately I've been trying to somewhat segregate composing, patch making and producing. I'll compose a catchy tune just using chiptune sounds (a piano sound would probably work better for this), then once I've finished working out the notation for all the different instruments and sections (drums, counter rhythm, bass, lead, counter melody, strings and pads; intro, verses, choruses, bridge, outro), I'll start to work out what sounds all the different instruments should have. Probably a few days later, with a refreshed mind. This is working especially well now I'm dabbling with hardware again.

 

The complete opposite approach is just to work on everything together, switching effortlessly back and forth between wiring up some sounds and composing music with those sounds, which can also be rewarding. The thing about electronic music is that it can blur the line somewhat between the two concepts. Plus I get inspired pretty easily, so working out a cool trick to make a pleasant sound can make me immediately start mucking around playing a melody, rhythm or chord sequence using that new patch, and before you know it a few hours have passed and I've written a whole track.

 

I'm not sure either approach is better than the other, and they each work better with a different setup or for a different genre. Experiment with your workflow itself as well as with the actual music making, and see what works best for you.

I really like this "easy clear generic" instrument approach as it forces you to focus on melodies instead of synthesis. When done you can find synthesis to improve the sound of the instruments. I also like to use midi files just to have some clue about how to build the tension and where to make breaks

  On 1/20/2012 at 7:57 PM, o00o said:

I really like this "easy clear generic" instrument approach as it forces you to focus on melodies instead of synthesis. When done you can find synthesis to improve the sound of the instruments. I also like to use midi files just to have some clue about how to build the tension and where to make breaks

Thanks! I've actually evolved my template to the point where it's just sine waves, white noise, and an 808 kick and snare (as I can achieve these sounds with modules I have, so they're good starting points for my particular setup). The sine waves work particularly well, as they let me quickly spot when I'm playing the exact same note on two different instruments, so I can move one of them up or down an octave so they don't clash. (Having said that, I change the footing enough on my oscillators that this probably doesn't give me too much of a head start, and it's a bit of a philosophical issue whether the footing of an instrument, or a part of it, is part of the notation or patch...)

I sometimes still add some additional notation when I'm half way through performing the song, as once I start to hear a fully rendered version of it, I can better spot some of the gaps, but at least I no longer waste time finding that perfect kick drum or wiring up that perfect bass patch when I should be actually composing.

The result of this experiment, by the way, is Blast Off!, although I haven't written it all yet, by a long shot. So much music to write, so little time...

(Perhaps most surprising is that I got a job out of shopping around these tracks, so I guess the experiment is already a success!)