Tottenham riots

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:25 PM, BCM said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:16 PM, disparaissant said:

righto but bcm was implying that it was about looting from the start. things turned ugly because people wanted to loot. which is kind of ridiculous. as far as i heard things turned ugly because people weren't being heard, then the police started doing random stop-searches and people got really fucking mad.

 

seriously, don't comment on stuff you don't understand. this has nothing to do with the police doing "random stop searches" - sounds like you've heard a media filtered, chinese-whispers version of events from TV/newpapers. and not British TV/newspapers at that. I like, actually live in London and have heard and seen first hand what is happening. Absolutely this is just about idiot thugs wanting to get free shit and break stuff. End of.

to be balanced, you should be taking any news media with a pinch of salt, regardless of whether it's from news sources within our borders or not.

  On 8/9/2011 at 2:05 PM, Iain C said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 1:31 PM, feltcher said:

Note -

I have drafted so many posts to this thread that I have deleted through the risk of sounding racist. I am not a racist person, but the feelings invoked by what we are seeing is really going to fuel the fire for the EDL / BNP and seriously not going to help the causes of the race communities involved.

 

Have you seen the pictures of last night's rioting? There are plenty of white people out there taking part in this too. Race is far less a factor in behaviour like this than poverty - it just so happens that they often correlate in urban areas. To be honest it's close-knit ethnic communitys like the Turks in Dalston and the Bangladeshis in Whitechapel who are actually coming together to fight off the looters.

Yes I do agree - people of all backgrounds involved in this. Hence my comments on being cautious about what ive been typing - lots of tempers flaring up right now and its important not to jump to conclusions without all the facts.

For what its worth, shit was kicking off in Oxford last night too. Cars on fire, McDonalds was smashed up and set on fire. Not on the scale of London, and not reported in the national news.

lol - Hulk Hogan live on Radio 5 live giving his advice on changing the attitudes of the kids involved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

wow.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:26 PM, Dan C said:

I live in London and I disagree.

yeah but to be honest Dan, you're a fucking idiot.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:32 PM, BCM said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:26 PM, Dan C said:

I live in London and I disagree.

 

yeah but to be honest Dan, you're a fucking idiot.

What do you base that on?

I don't really feel like giving this riot any credit as a statement of anything. It hasn't been a valid protest since about an hour after it began. You can't gauge any particular social problem by the scale of this because it's too many uncoordinated disparate events happening. Part 2 of dispparaispants quote is good.

Also I don't know why people are getting arsey with Feltcher as if he said something about a certain race, he tactfully avoided that. I don't think this is a race issue but I've seen a lot of black kids smashing and stealing stuff, that is enough to let any racists have a field day.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:27 PM, disparaissant said:

right okay i guess you're right everyone just wants to loot and no one is mad over austerity measures or being treated like criminals by the police. they're fine with that. they just want new tvs.

Guys, you're both right. You had it in your edited post above - sure there are legitimate greivances that kickstarted the unrest. But the fact is, it was quickly co-opted by people who would get involved in any riot, anywhere, for the sheer thrill of it. It's an ugly part of human nature which has ALWAYS been around. Yes, these are the same people who are disenfranchised... but so are a lot of people who aren't rioting. There has to be something else there.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:32 PM, disparaissant said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

wow.

are you really surprised?

not in the least it was just a bit emotional is all

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:27 PM, disparaissant said:

right okay i guess you're right everyone just wants to loot and no one is mad over austerity measures or being treated like criminals by the police. they're fine with that. they just want new tvs.

the austerity measures might make poor people poorer, and more inclined to steal, but they are most probably not making a political point by doing so

Mr. T will fix this with his rap music.

Edit: Another stupid post, sorry.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:37 PM, Iain C said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:27 PM, disparaissant said:

right okay i guess you're right everyone just wants to loot and no one is mad over austerity measures or being treated like criminals by the police. they're fine with that. they just want new tvs.

 

Guys, you're both right. You had it in your edited post above - sure there are legitimate greivances that kickstarted the unrest. But the fact is, it was quickly co-opted by people who would get involved in any riot, anywhere, for the sheer thrill of it. It's an ugly part of human nature which has ALWAYS been around. Yes, these are the same people who are disenfranchised... but so are a lot of people who aren't rioting. There has to be something else there.

A few more truth bullets there Iain. Being older than a lot of you, I can also remember this shit kicking off in the past (Brixton, Toxteth, and more recently Oldham), although maybe not on this scale. Got to say that I find it impossible to post anything rational about this though, it infuriates and depresses me far too much.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:33 PM, Dan C said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:32 PM, BCM said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:26 PM, Dan C said:

I live in London and I disagree.

 

yeah but to be honest Dan, you're a fucking idiot.

 

What do you base that on?

pretty much every one of your "controversial" posts about anything ever.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:40 PM, Coalbucket PI said:

the austerity measures might make poor people poorer, and more inclined to steal, but they are most probably not making a political point by doing so

see iain's post.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:37 PM, Iain C said:

Guys, you're both right. You had it in your edited post above - sure there are legitimate greivances that kickstarted the unrest. But the fact is, it was quickly co-opted by people who would get involved in any riot, anywhere, for the sheer thrill of it. It's an ugly part of human nature which has ALWAYS been around. Yes, these are the same people who are disenfranchised... but so are a lot of people who aren't rioting. There has to be something else there.

there seems to be this idea that most people i've talked to about this have that it's either

a.) people are mad about something and this is political and how dare you talk about the looting you RACIST

OR

b.) they just want new tvs!

where in reality it's a mixture of the two. they're not mutually exclusive at all. things started for one reason, and they're continuing for another. i don't see why this is an insane concept to some people.

@BCM

I think you need to chill out.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:39 PM, disparaissant said:

not in the least it was just a bit emotional is all

you're definitely right - it's doubtful it will get replayed.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:40 PM, Coalbucket PI said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:27 PM, disparaissant said:

right okay i guess you're right everyone just wants to loot and no one is mad over austerity measures or being treated like criminals by the police. they're fine with that. they just want new tvs.

 

the austerity measures might make poor people poorer, and more inclined to steal, but they are most probably not making a political point by doing so

absolutely spot on

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:44 PM, Dan C said:

@BCM

 

I think you need to chill out.

I think you both need to stop derailing this thread and take it to PM where you can duke it out like men. And then tearfully embrace each other with your shirts off, as the pouring rain washes the blood from your knuckles.

I didn't derail it, you derailed it!

Reports of stuff going off in Wimbledon, not sure I believe that though.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:44 PM, disparaissant said:

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:40 PM, Coalbucket PI said:

the austerity measures might make poor people poorer, and more inclined to steal, but they are most probably not making a political point by doing so

see iain's post.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:37 PM, Iain C said:

Guys, you're both right. You had it in your edited post above - sure there are legitimate greivances that kickstarted the unrest. But the fact is, it was quickly co-opted by people who would get involved in any riot, anywhere, for the sheer thrill of it. It's an ugly part of human nature which has ALWAYS been around. Yes, these are the same people who are disenfranchised... but so are a lot of people who aren't rioting. There has to be something else there.

there seems to be this idea that most people i've talked to about this have that it's either

a.) people are mad about something and this is political and how dare you talk about the looting you RACIST

OR

b.) they just want new tvs!

where in reality it's a mixture of the two. they're not mutually exclusive at all. things started for one reason, and they're continuing for another. i don't see why this is an insane concept to some people.

I'm almost certainly the most intelligent and well educated person on this board, and I live in London, and your analysis is consistently wide of the mark.

troll

lol

Have the rioters been shot yet?

It should be rubber bullet time. These people need stopping. I'd love to have been there with a little gang of my own to smash the fuck out of the twats that went through the injured kids bag. Fight fire with fire.

Just this minute heard on the radio that a group of about 200 were out around luchtime clearing up last night's mess. It's good to hear there are enough sensible people about willing to help people in trouble.

  On 8/9/2011 at 3:51 PM, oscillik said:

troll

No, Dispairassant has got things back to front. It is about looting. The simple (through not simplistic) analysis is correct. Commentators are now trying to impose their own agendas on it. And because everyone loves to be a victim, the looters will adopt whatever analysis makes them the biggest victims.

edit: decided against posting that