The World Economy Is Dangerous

  On 9/21/2011 at 2:42 PM, eugene said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 8:55 AM, azatoth said:

I have a feeling that we are watching the slow demise of the capitalist system. I for one welcome it and hope it will be replaced by something that values human needs before profit margins.

but humans love them profit margins

human greed will never die. i would worry more about a far more ruthless system being created than one of capitalism.

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:24 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

human greed will never die

a failure of thought

change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:46 PM, Bread said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:24 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

human greed will never die

a failure of thought

change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded

greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is.

MO MONEY MO PROBLEMS

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:46 PM, Bread said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:24 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

human greed will never die

a failure of thought

change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded

 

greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is.

No it is rewarded in this system - look at banking/robbery/the dumping of chemical waste to decrease costs/war etc...

It depends on whether you can evade punishment if you are an underclass citizen. If you're in the top tier of society, you'll get away with many atrocious crimes.

What I'm trying to say is we need to create an environment of abundant resources and in the process you effectively eliminate many areas of crime associated with theft or monetary related issues. Our system is based on scarcity, not abundance. Our system is based on private ownership of capital which is not evenly distributed.

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:54 PM, Bread said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:46 PM, Bread said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:24 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

human greed will never die

a failure of thought

change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded

 

greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is.

No it is rewarded in this system - look at banking/robbery/the dumping of chemical waste to decrease costs/war etc...

It depends on whether you can evade punishment if you are an underclass citizen. If you're in the top tier of society, you'll get away with many atrocious crimes.

 

What I'm trying to say is we need to create an environment of abundant resources and in the process you effectively eliminate many areas of crime associated with theft or monetary related issues. Our system is based on scarcity, not abundance. Our system is based on private ownership of capital which is not evenly distributed.

even if this could be possible, it certainly will not be possible without a great deal of bloodshed and suffering.

  On 9/21/2011 at 9:27 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:54 PM, Bread said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:46 PM, Bread said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:24 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

human greed will never die

a failure of thought

change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded

 

greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is.

No it is rewarded in this system - look at banking/robbery/the dumping of chemical waste to decrease costs/war etc...

It depends on whether you can evade punishment if you are an underclass citizen. If you're in the top tier of society, you'll get away with many atrocious crimes.

 

What I'm trying to say is we need to create an environment of abundant resources and in the process you effectively eliminate many areas of crime associated with theft or monetary related issues. Our system is based on scarcity, not abundance. Our system is based on private ownership of capital which is not evenly distributed.

 

even if this could be possible, it certainly will not be possible without a great deal of bloodshed and suffering.

Why are you so certain on that? Is there only "one" single way things can pan out in your reality?

How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet?

Why are you so certain we will instantaneously transform into a utopia? That all of the men with the weaponry throw their hands up and say, "You know what, the jig is up. Let us help our fellow man and reject our wayward actions from the past couple of millenia."

  On 9/21/2011 at 10:40 PM, luke viia said:

How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet?

thats what Im saying. There are some utopians who sincerely believe that population must be drastically culled in order to be sustainable.

  On 9/21/2011 at 10:40 PM, luke viia said:

How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet?

I never said that the planet has an infinite supply of resources - what I mean by abundance is a plentiful supply for a given population to sustain our human needs. The World Health Organisation acknowledges we have enough food to feed the world - so does the UN. The statistics are undeniable. However, the way we govern and operate 'Spaceship Earth', in the words of Buckminster Fuller, is in an ecologically damaging way - because of our current economic system. This system is incredibly wasteful and doesn't set about to preserve or look out for the needs of every person on the planet let alone resources. I presume you're aware that this economic system we're in at the moment does not have a plan on how to manage resources intelligently other than leaving it all to the market (quite unscientific I might add).

  On 9/21/2011 at 10:43 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

Why are you so certain we will instantaneously transform into a utopia? That all of the men with the weaponry throw their hands up and say, "You know what, the jig is up. Let us help our fellow man and reject our wayward actions from the past couple of millenia."

 

  On 9/21/2011 at 10:40 PM, luke viia said:

How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet?

 

thats what Im saying. There are some utopians who sincerely believe that population must be drastically culled in order to be sustainable.

I never said the population has to be culled...

Also - use your words wisely - utopia implies perfection and any sane person knows that such a thing can never be attained.

Indeed, I agree with most of what you just said. What I am wondering is if you have any ideas (or subscribe to any thoroughly thought-out plans) on what this new system might look like. It is all well and good to point out the flaws of the current system, and there are certainly many, but if you are truly talking about a radical overhaul of the way humans trade and interact/govern one another, I am interested to hear some possible solutions.

  On 9/21/2011 at 2:22 PM, m u st co n t r ol t h o 4 said:

What's the cool place to go if you want to read serious economic analysis? Other than The Economist please, I visit the site almost daily but I won't give them money (they have enough).

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ (general economic news; lots of discussion of financial sector criminality & failures of mainstream economics)

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/ (author of "debunking economics")

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:07 PM, patternoverlap said:

*becomes bodybuilder survivalist*

Don't get too bluky.

For economic analysis:

Paul Krugman's Blog is a good read.

the world Bank blog on development is also very worthwhile.

I think it's already been well established that the future economy will be based on Minecraft

*checks account statements*

I like how everybody watches RT now. \nn/_ _\nn/

Im more of a fan of the Nigerian News Network we pick up near DC.

  On 9/22/2011 at 7:25 AM, delet... said:

I like how everybody watches RT now. \nn/_ _\nn/

State-funded media - what could be better.

beware the man who has nothing to lose

  On 9/22/2011 at 2:22 AM, chenGOD said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:07 PM, patternoverlap said:

*becomes bodybuilder survivalist*

 

Don't get too bluky.

I'm already too bluky. I'd probably just get my body down to a very efficient weight so I don't have to be consuming protein constantly to maintain it.

Bread: so you think everyone will go along with a resource-based, everyone gets the same amount of everything type society?

  On 9/22/2011 at 4:39 PM, patternoverlap said:

  On 9/22/2011 at 2:22 AM, chenGOD said:

  On 9/21/2011 at 3:07 PM, patternoverlap said:

*becomes bodybuilder survivalist*

 

Don't get too bluky.

 

I'm already too bluky. I'd probably just get my body down to a very efficient weight so I don't have to be consuming protein constantly to maintain it.

 

 

Bread: so you think everyone will go along with a resource-based, everyone gets the same amount of everything type society?

a protein based diet is the best way to maintain it though.

And yeah everyone will just get along - after some "re-education" that is.

For some reason I feel ashamed to admit that I read this daily as well... I can tell the articles are outrageous at least half the time but then I agree 100% with others. I have very limited knowledge of economy so would you please take a look at this piece and give your obviously superior insider opinion? http://wsws.org/arti.../euro-s23.shtml

What about this, from George Soros which is dated October 13, 2011

http://www.nybooks.c...ro-have-future/

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The Soros review describes a political problem.

The markets slump is worrisome if you're invested in the stock market. Is it even possible to have an insider opinion? Insider information sure, but an opinion?

this thread....