We are the Foundation

  On 10/11/2011 at 1:26 AM, eugene said:

the protest movement (which currently looks like a total weak-sauce) might pave way for some social-leaning reforms and a discourse shift at most.

They'll have to occupy for a few years longer before they get anything.

/* moves to israel, where all the world's balls are stored.

which reminds me, what the fuck happened to the French? They were putting us all to shame, revolution every twenty goddamn years or so at one point.

They still do it. Maybe they watered down that spirit by letting in all that cheap labour that weren't steeped in the rebellious spirit of previous eras. Then again, that element did go round burning cars a couple of years ago.

they have to occupy proper media attention and for this more numbers and noise is needed.

i don't see why does it have be so difficult to market this idea of "the current system favors the rich way too much" to both poles, i mainly draw from the recent protests in israel that focused on similar issues like high costs of living and the disproportionate power and wealth of tycoons, those were started by a bunch of anarcho-socialist hipsters from tel aviv but gradually sucked the middle/low class right wingers and all kinds of different populations including settlers into it because the issues are very obvious and easy to explain, i don't think it's all that different from u.s...

the reason for it never going violent is simply because 99% of those 99% sport iphones

sometimes Rhommy, I'm so darn proud of you, sometimes.

Quite a kerfluffle on Twitter and the #occupyboston website at the moment as the police are on their way to break up the protest. Allegedly. It's gonna be a pretty interesting evening for those of us in New England, if you're curious to follow…

  On 10/11/2011 at 2:06 AM, eugene said:

they have to occupy proper media attention and for this more numbers and noise is needed.

 

i don't see why does it have be so difficult to market this idea of "the current system favors the rich way too much" to both poles, i mainly draw from the recent protests in israel that focused on similar issues like high costs of living and the disproportionate power and wealth of tycoons, those were started by a bunch of anarcho-socialist hipsters from tel aviv but gradually sucked the middle/low class right wingers and all kinds of different populations including settlers into it because the issues are very obvious and easy to explain, i don't think it's all that different from u.s...

 

the reason for it never going violent is simply because 99% of those 99% sport iphones

It's basically the same thing over here and I'm like one or two light years away from Wall Street / Israel.

  On 10/5/2011 at 11:58 PM, chassis said:

I think its pretty fucking ignorant to lump yourself in the 99%.

 

Some people dont eat food everyday, and you put yourself in that category?

this is pretty naive. i eat everyday and pay my rent and have a job. does that mean I cannot protest what is going on? maybe you want to break out the 33% that are so poor they can't eat, we'll have separate occupations.

  On 10/11/2011 at 7:41 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

  On 10/5/2011 at 11:58 PM, chassis said:

I think its pretty fucking ignorant to lump yourself in the 99%.

 

Some people dont eat food everyday, and you put yourself in that category?

 

this is pretty naive. i eat everyday and pay my rent and have a job. does that mean I cannot protest what is going on? maybe you want to break out the 33% that are so poor they can't eat, we'll have separate occupations.

I didn't realise the "99%" thing was just 99% of America.

Carry on. You should definitely protest, I would if there was one organized here.

  On 10/11/2011 at 12:32 AM, Braintree said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWyrk10_S84&feature=player_embedded

Wow, this got me fired up.

My roommate and I camped out in front of the Federal Reserve building in SF last night. There's a great energy down there right now.

  On 10/11/2011 at 10:16 PM, Braintree said:

My roommate and I camped out in front of the Federal Reserve building in SF last night. There's a great energy down there right now.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I just wish the movement in this city wasn't mostly dirty hippy Haight St. kids.

 

they weren't when they first camped out but after 30 days outdoors...

did you actually stay overnight?

  On 10/11/2011 at 10:31 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 10:16 PM, Braintree said:

My roommate and I camped out in front of the Federal Reserve building in SF last night. There's a great energy down there right now.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I just wish the movement in this city wasn't mostly dirty hippy Haight St. kids.

 

 

they weren't when they first camped out but after 30 days outdoors...

 

did you actually stay overnight?

Yeah. We left there at around 8am this morning. There are like 100 or something down there at night, but definitely more during the day. We were trying to go at night so the numbers wouldn't get too low.

And the Haight St hippies have been outside way longer than 30 days. The patchouli smell has worn off.

  On 10/11/2011 at 1:32 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 1:29 AM, verticalhold said:

there's an OccupyBrisbane thing on Saturday, ugh. Checked the Facebook page, and the question of the minute is "should we unite with a common cause?". fucking hell

 

this is ridiculous too. they are uniting for a common cause. the mere fact they are donating time and wasting man hours means they are there in a common cause.

I disagree with you here, but that's ok.

there's a loss of potency when people jump on board, screaming, without a collective agenda. I don't know how many times the "mission" statement of OccupyBrisbane has changed; look at some of the dick swinging at the website to get an idea of how much of a free-for-all it is. I plan on poking my nose in on Saturday, but it pisses me off that I can't feel like I'm actually in solidarity with others, just co-opting their dumb roar

#OccupyDeezNutz!

I'm curious what people think of this counter-argument:

  Quote

Even if you tax away 50 percent of the income of those making between $1 million and $10 million, you only reduce the national debt by 1 percent, according to the Tax Foundation. If you confiscate all the income of those making more than $10 million, you reduce the debt by 2 percent. You would still be nibbling only meekly around the edges.

One problem with it is that it ignores the other tine of the fork, which is that banks and large corporations should be more heavily taxed as well (with the most radical protesters saying the banks ought to pay back victims of the housing crash from the money the government used to bail them (the banks) out). I wonder how much more that would reduce the debt?

  On 10/12/2011 at 6:45 PM, encey said:

I'm curious what people think of this counter-argument:

 

  Quote

Even if you tax away 50 percent of the income of those making between $1 million and $10 million, you only reduce the national debt by 1 percent, according to the Tax Foundation. If you confiscate all the income of those making more than $10 million, you reduce the debt by 2 percent. You would still be nibbling only meekly around the edges.

 

One problem with it is that it ignores the other tine of the fork, which is that banks and large corporations should be more heavily taxed as well (with the most radical protesters saying the banks ought to pay back victims of the housing crash from the money the government used to bail them (the banks) out). I wonder how much more that would reduce the debt?

Or at all. A lot of big banks and large corporations have tax shelters overseas and only pay a relatively small percentage of what they should be paying.

It's all virtual anyway. The debt is over twice the amount of actual money circulating in the entire world anyway.

That's crazy fucked! But what's not virtual is the effect this imaginary number has on our credit standing, trade relations and fiscal policy debates -- unfortunately!

As far as taxing goes, each class should at least be taxed the same. It doesn't make sense to tax the poor and middle class more than the wealthy. If a person has a lot of money, it makes more sense to require them put more back into the system instead of the people that are struggling to get by.

  On 10/12/2011 at 6:45 PM, encey said:

I'm curious what people think of this counter-argument

Reading through it, he seems personally offended and doesn't really understand what the Occupy movement is about. There is no central figurehead, no set of demands. It's a bunch of people [largely college graduates] that are pissed off and tired of being poor that want corporations to stop influencing policy. Not limited to one cause, they would also like our government to stop engaging in costly, pointless wars, and to provide for proper social healthcare. He talks about reducing the national debt, but I haven't heard any of the protestors mention that as a major factor. Personally, I think that issue can take a back seat for the moment, but I digress. He doesn't focus on the bigger issues, but rather picks at trivial matters.

The article comes off as more of a distraction than a counter-argument.

  On 10/12/2011 at 6:45 PM, encey said:

I'm curious what people think of this counter-argument:

  Quote

Even if you tax away 50 percent of the income of those making between $1 million and $10 million, you only reduce the national debt by 1 percent, according to the Tax Foundation. If you confiscate all the income of those making more than $10 million, you reduce the debt by 2 percent. You would still be nibbling only meekly around the edges.

"income" in this context means regular income which is almost irrelevant when talking about the richest Americans; When Buffet says he's paying a lower tax rate than his secretary he's obviously referring to the rate on capital gains.

This has been me since yesterday... There's no reasoning. I offer ways to change the system and they offer nothing. I offer data backing up my claims, and again they offer nothing to back up their ideas/claims. It blows my mind but I enjoy stirring up shit in my conservative friends circles lol. The original poster is a past professor of mine. She taught me American Government...

edit: also, after reading through all of this I realized that one of my first replies to this post has gone missing from Facebook?! My initial reply was to point out the the New York Post is owned by Newscorp which is owned by Rupert Murdoch who has a huge investment in the whole deal. I pointed out they had an obvious slant to the story. I definitely didn't delete my post so where the fuck could it have gone?!

  On 10/12/2011 at 9:34 PM, DeadlyTowers said:

  On 10/12/2011 at 6:45 PM, encey said:

I'm curious what people think of this counter-argument:

  Quote

Even if you tax away 50 percent of the income of those making between $1 million and $10 million, you only reduce the national debt by 1 percent, according to the Tax Foundation. If you confiscate all the income of those making more than $10 million, you reduce the debt by 2 percent. You would still be nibbling only meekly around the edges.

 

"income" in this context means regular income which is almost irrelevant when talking about the richest Americans; When Buffet says he's paying a lower tax rate than his secretary he's obviously referring to the rate on capital gains.

Oh for real? (I should have clicked through the link lol) -- what a shady argument, then. He should be ashamed for violating the principle of charity -- of course the protesters aren't calling for only regular income to be taxed!

my god hautlle, kudos for at least trying. not a single factual piece of evidence in response.

but see, this is what i mean when Im saying there will be violence before or if anything changes for the better. The "two sides" of America are largely media creations from the Reagan era onward, and are now so ingrained in the American populous that myths are realities for both sides. We are too entrenched in our own ignorance.

There's an occupy brisbane this weekend. I might pop along if i'm not visiting with modey.