Natural Madness / Spiritual Madness

  On 10/26/2011 at 12:59 PM, Babar said:

What if that madness gives you insights that allow you to conceive a revolutionary theory. What if you hear angelic voices like cantor that help you constituting it ?

Where does the madness come from ? From the inside or from the outside ?

What if the theory you build is a theory about meaning and interpretation, a theory that integrates, describes and explains the very madness that is its inspiration source ?

If so, can you reasonably think, because you know you're interpreting, because you know you're getting mad, that this madness, since you made it an object of study, is of external origin ?

Does that mean the voices you hear truly are angelic voices ?

 

 

*steps ashore Shutter Island*

 

 

and yes, madness is madness, be it of spiritual origin or "natural", it feels the same. (at the scale of the delirium burst).

I don't think any of you are mad, and I mean that. I think you have a unique perception. Where this perception comes from is beyond me. The angelic voices sound like a goofy way of explaining it to me, but it's probably the best explanation (I've never heard angelic voices). Actually, no. I think I do understand.

In my experience, everything I think of comes from within my mind. Perhaps if one hears angelic voices, it is actually a deep corner of their mind, giving them another perception. Similar to the way that one creates different characters on the fly within a dream. The angelic voices wouldn't mean one is mad, but that they have manifested a way to communicate with the different perceptions they perceive.

  On 10/27/2011 at 9:09 PM, Babar said:

You know sometimes, you go in your garden to have a piss, feel a breeze and you feel like you are in the Caribbean.

truth

sup

im gonna read 1 post in the thread. the 1 after mine. so pls tell me, is this thread nonsese or should i read the rest

I feel like there's a tree growing out of my head.

Unless everyone but me is taking the piss, and I've somehow mistranslated what the entire thread is about, I'd say read the thread.

Didn't make sense to me until "The Echo" was defined though.

  On 10/28/2011 at 12:31 AM, Salvatorin said:

I feel like there's a tree growing out of my head.

ok this threads now a SUP FREE ZONE

Babar, I ignore 'half' of what you say but then you insert bits of data that 'echo' in places that honestly I find quite scary and intrusive. Don't believe for a second that I don't understand 'wtf is going on' because after all I willingly provided all the information you are using didn't Eye? I have detected wrong answers a number of times, which makes me think you are real but then you post a certain X and I want to say ´____´. It is an exceedingly fun and beautiful game but fair play French Head. I don't think I want to use / meet / fuck you ? because a section of the universe would probably explode and you obviously understand why.

: D

* crosses spiritual fingers and gets some sleep.

  On 10/28/2011 at 12:31 AM, Salvatorin said:

I feel like there's a tree growing out of my head.

  Quote

 

Clearly twin forces, though not alone, are eating away at the world: planetization and disintegration, unifying love and corrosive death-wishes, bonding kindness and disjointing cruelty, on a colossal scale. And the bastard, schizophrenic, seizure-prone son sees the world as if through shattered glass, moving his head slowly back and forth while waiting for coherent images to form, wondering what it all means.

 

As the Picasso-like fragments assemble themselves into something of postmodern art, flowing images start to congeal: perhaps there are indeed integrating, bonding, unifying forces at work in the world, a God or Goddess's love of gentle persu- asion, slowly but inexorably increasing human understand- ing, care, and compassion. And perhaps there are likewise currents viciously dedicated to disrupting any such integral embrace. And perhaps they are indeed at war, a war that will not cease until one of them is dead—a world united, or a world torn apart: love on the one hand, or blood all over the brand-new carpet.

 

What immediately tore at my attention, all that year, was the three-decade mark of Armageddon doom rushing at me from tomorrow: in 30 years (30 years!), machines will reach human-level intelligence, and beyond. And then human be- ings will almost certainly be replaced by machines—they will outsmart us, after all. Or, more likely, we—human beings, our minds or our consciousness or some such—would down- load into computers, we would transfer our souls into the new machines—and what kind of future was that for a kid?

 

That was the year the event occurred, altering my fate ir- revocably, a year in the life of a human machine that miracu- lously came to life. It was a year of ideas that hurt my head, made my brain sore and swollen, it seemed literally to expand and push against my skull, bulging out my eyes, throbbing at my temples, tearing into the world. Of that year, I recall al- most no geographical locations at all. I remember little sce- nery, few actual places, hardly an exterior, just a stream of conversations and blistering visions that ruined my life as I had known it, replaced it with something humanity would never recognize, left me immortal, stains all over my flesh, smiling at the sky.

Ken Wilber, Boomeritis

  Quote

Differential diagnosis between non-pathological psychotic and spiritual experiences and mental disorders: a contribution from Latin American studies to the ICD-11

 

Abstract Objective: To review research articles in psychiatry and psychology involving Latin American populations and/or produced by Latin American scholars to investigate the differential diagnosis between spiritual/anomalous experiences and mental disorders in order to contribute to the validity of the International Classification of Diseases towards its 11th edition in this area. Method: We searched electronic databases (PubMed, PsycINFO, Scopus, and SciELO) using relevant keywords (possession, trance, religious experience, spiritual experience, latin*, Brazil) for articles with original psychiatric and psychological data on spiritual experiences. We also analyzed the references of the articles found and contacted authors for additional references and data. Results: There is strong evidence that psychotic and anomalous experiences are frequent in the general population and that most of them are not related to psychotic disorders. Often, spiritual experiences involve non-pathological dissociative and psychotic experiences. Although spiritual experiences are not usually related to mental disorders, they may cause transient distress and are commonly reported by psychotic patients. Conclusion: We propose some features that suggest the non-pathological nature of a spiritual experience: lack of suffering, lack of social or functional impairment, compatibility with the patient’s cultural background and recognition by others, absence of psychiatric comorbidities, control over the experience, and personal growth over time.

  Quote

 

Spiritual Experience and Psychopathology

Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology - Volume 4, Number 1, March 1997, pp. 41-65

 

The Johns Hopkins University Press

 

Mike Jackson and K. W. M. Fulford - Spiritual Experience and Psychopathology - Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology 4:1 Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology 4.1 (1997) 41-65 Spiritual Experience and Psychopathology Mike Jackson & K. W. M. Fulford

Abstract:

A recent study of the relationship between spiritual experience and psychopathology (reported in detail elsewhere) suggested that psychotic phenomena could occur in the context of spiritual experiences rather than mental illness. In the present paper, this finding is illustrated with three detailed case histories. Its implications are then explored for psychopathology, for psychiatric classification, and for our understanding of the concept of mental illness. It is argued that pathological and spiritual psychotic phenomena cannot be distinguished by

1) form and content alone (as in traditional psychopathology),

2) by their relationship either with other symptoms or with pathological causes (as in psychiatric classification), or

3) by reference to the descriptive criteria of mental illness implied by the "medical" model.

The distinction is shown to depend, rather, on the way in which psychotic phenomena themselves are embedded in the values and beliefs of the person concerned. This in turn is shown to have implications for diagnosis (it shows the need for clinicians to attend to the values and beliefs of individual patients), for treatment (it points to a cognitive problem-solving model), and for...

aww im touched.

m u st co n t r ol t h o 4, on 27 October 2011 - 09:40 PM, said:

Babar, on 27 October 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

You know sometimes, you go in your garden to have a piss, feel a breeze and you feel like you are in the Caribbean.

truth

Quote

A fixed point is a point of a function that does not change under some transformation. If we regard the evolution of a dynamical system as a series of transformations, then there may or may not be a point which remains fixed under the whole series of transformation. In general there would not be such a point, but there may be one. The final state that a dynamical system evolves towards, such as the final states of a falling pebble, a damped pendulum, or the water in a glass corresponds to a fixed point of the evolution function, and will occur at the attractor, but the two concepts are not equivalent. A marble rolling around in a basin may have a fixed point in phase space even if it doesn't in physical space. Once it has lost momentum and settled into the bottom of the bowl it then has a fixed point in physical space, phase space, and is located at the attractor for that system.

sounds good to me.

I don't even know where this thread has gone now. All I know is that mechanical physics are not very interesting.

when I was a kid I used to be average good at math but then life happened / I lost my neurons so I understand your point but you have to look at it in the way that Babar does and maybe something will click with you I don't know.

  On 10/28/2011 at 5:52 PM, m u st co n t r ol t h o 4 said:

when I was a kid I used to be average good at math but then life happened / I lost my neurons so I understand your point but you have to look at it in the way that Babar does and maybe something will click with you I don't know.

Yea, I guess. I'm just unable to understand the relationship between mechanical physics and the echo/madness. I wouldn't think they have anything to do with eachother, and it's more about the brain.

Unless the subject of this thread changed. I was also hoping I'd get a reply to my posts.

Also, where'd The Pod go?

  On 10/28/2011 at 1:12 AM, Murveman said:

Didn't make sense to me until "The Echo" was defined though.

  On 10/28/2011 at 3:00 PM, Babar said:

 

  Quote

 

Differential diagnosis between non-pathological psychotic and spiritual experiences and mental disorders: a contribution from Latin American studies to the ICD-11

 

​Abstract Objective: To review research articles in psychiatry and psychology involving Latin American populations and/or produced by Latin American scholars to investigate the differential diagnosis between spiritual/anomalous experiences and mental disorders in order to contribute to the validity of the International Classification of Diseases towards its 11th edition in this area. Method: We searched electronic databases (PubMed, PsycINFO, Scopus, and SciELO) using relevant keywords (possession, trance, religious experience, spiritual experience, latin*, Brazil) for articles with original psychiatric and psychological data on spiritual experiences. We also analyzed the references of the articles found and contacted authors for additional references and data. Results: There is strong evidence that psychotic and anomalous experiences are frequent in the general population and that most of them are not related to psychotic disorders. Often, spiritual experiences involve non-pathological dissociative and psychotic experiences. Although spiritual experiences are not usually related to mental disorders, they may cause transient distress and are commonly reported by psychotic patients. Conclusion: We propose some features that suggest the non-pathological nature of a spiritual experience: lack of suffering, lack of social or functional impairment, compatibility with the patient’s cultural background and recognition by others, absence of psychiatric comorbidities, control over the experience, and personal growth over time.

 

  On 10/28/2011 at 5:52 PM, m u st co n t r ol t h o 4 said:

when I was a kid I used to be average good at math but then life happened / I lost my neurons so I understand your point but you have to look at it in the way that Babar does and maybe something will click with you I don't know.

  Quote

 

Differential diagnosis between non-pathological psychotic and spiritual experiences and mental disorders: a contribution from Latin American studies to the ICD-11

 

​Abstract Objective: To review research articles in psychiatry and psychology involving Latin American populations and/or produced by Latin American scholars to investigate the differential diagnosis between spiritual/anomalous experiences and mental disorders in order to contribute to the validity of the International Classification of Diseases towards its 11th edition in this area. Method: We searched electronic databases (PubMed, PsycINFO, Scopus, and SciELO) using relevant keywords (possession, trance, religious experience, spiritual experience, latin*, Brazil) for articles with original psychiatric and psychological data on spiritual experiences. We also analyzed the references of the articles found and contacted authors for additional references and data. Results: There is strong evidence that psychotic and anomalous experiences are frequent in the general population and that most of them are not related to psychotic disorders. Often, spiritual experiences involve non-pathological dissociative and psychotic experiences. Although spiritual experiences are not usually related to mental disorders, they may cause transient distress and are commonly reported by psychotic patients. Conclusion: We propose some features that suggest the non-pathological nature of a spiritual experience: lack of suffering, lack of social or functional impairment, compatibility with the patient’s cultural background and recognition by others, absence of psychiatric comorbidities, control over the experience, and personal growth over time.

  Quote

Also, where'd The Pod go?

The Pod is not coming back.

Oh wait, I get the relationship now. I feel silly.

Whether I agree or not with the comparison is still unknown to me though.

  On 10/28/2011 at 6:06 PM, m u st co n t r ol t h o 4 said:

  Quote

Also, where'd The Pod go?

 

The Pod is not coming back.

Lolwut? But I like him.

looks like he doesn't answer questions so fuck him.

i'll answer to these questions

at least as far as a french dickhead can

the pod has self inflicted aspergers

'he is just teasing I need him to throw me a bone' said Gordo.

btw do you know how much carles 'sucks'? it's 'hilarious' the time people spend trying to 'read' him.

yeah and I replied to Gordo with that link.

I believe he hasn't read this stuff, so i'll pin this text down to a couple pages and post it on here one day.

But i have homework to do, so it'll take some time (currently working on a program that deal with polynoms and Sturm's Theorem).

besides, Gordo's ghost is flying above this topic, so it's almost like he's posted in this thread.

GORDO

aaaaand. bye babar!

my thread is looking better and better.