let's talk about compression

Knowing the quality of your compressors, using the right ones for the right instances is practically more important than understanding how to use them I've found. Really good mixes, or really good source material in general that is properly produced is soo much harder to make sound bad with really great sounding compressors. Pretty much have to know how much you can get away with before it goes from transparent, to gushy, to poopy.

That's my simple opinion but yeah if you wanna learn about gain, attack, release, soft knee, output settings and all that I would just do some googling.

Favorite compressors? UAD Precision Compression and Limiter, PSP Vintage Warmer, Waves C4 Multiband Comp on vocals.

Holy shit, that's great.

If you guys wanna hear about big-shot compression schemes check out Michael Brauer's explanations of his setup: http://www.mbrauer.com/qna2.asp. There's a lot to read, so set some time aside.

  On 11/10/2011 at 6:41 AM, Wall Bird said:

If you guys wanna hear about big-shot compression schemes check out Michael Brauer's explanations of his setup: http://www.mbrauer.com/qna2.asp. There's a lot to read, so set some time aside.

WoW this looks great. I will definitely read all of this sometime tomorrow. Good post.

  On 11/10/2011 at 5:09 AM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

Knowing the quality of your compressors, using the right ones for the right instances is practically more important than understanding how to use them I've found.

lol

Just last night I was discussing compression with someone that does live sound. He owns a huge setup and only has one Behringer compressor that he says he rarely uses - he feels using compression kills the dynamics and intensity of a performance, and he keeps the Behringer exclusively for dealing with inexperienced singers. Aside working on my own music I record garage bands every now and then, and I love using compression on virtually everything - bass, vocals, keyboards, master bus and especially drum tracks. Doing live sound requires a different approach to compression, I suppose. Nevertheless, overdoing it in any ocasion can really muddy up a mix.

My personal favourites include the SSL G-Series Bus compressor and the API 2500 - sweet stuff. Would love to have all the UAD's.

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:57 AM, schlucharski said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 5:09 AM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

Knowing the quality of your compressors, using the right ones for the right instances is practically more important than understanding how to use them I've found.

lol

I know that is a ridiculous statement, it's kind of a hyperbole, I have got more used to compression and production in general over the last 10 years but if you take in account what I'm saying before hand it isn't quite that far off. Compressing great sounds with even sub mediocre units is ten thousand times less frustrating. In order to work magic turning weak, inconsistent production into solid gold sometimes you really need the most perfect set of tools to color the canvas into a really musical and dreamy orchestra. I used to spend so long tweaking the attack & release on Reason mastering compressors trying get sounds warm and fatten up the sound of a weak bass drum or snare for instance. It wasn't going to make any magic happen with that limited digital sounding compressor. These days with all my experience in how my different compressors sound(transparent/heavily colored/able to really go into heavy crushing musically etc.) I could much much more easily dial in a dramatically fatter, punchier, more consistent sound light years more musically than with the Reason comp. The ability to tune in the most scientifically correct settings comes secondary to the right tools in my opinion.

Compressors all act and sound quite differently when you have to push the envelope.

I love sidechaining - but please, do it right (look at Mr. Oizo or Clark)

Also, more people should understand the difference of the use of compression as a mastering tool and a stylistic, musical effect or tool.

  On 11/10/2011 at 11:08 AM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:57 AM, schlucharski said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 5:09 AM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

Knowing the quality of your compressors, using the right ones for the right instances is practically more important than understanding how to use them I've found.

lol

 

I know that is a ridiculous statement, it's kind of a hyperbole, I have got more used to compression and production in general over the last 10 years but if you take in account what I'm saying before hand it isn't quite that far off. Compressing great sounds with even sub mediocre units is ten thousand times less frustrating. In order to work magic turning weak, inconsistent production into solid gold sometimes you really need the most perfect set of tools to color the canvas into a really musical and dreamy orchestra. I used to spend so long tweaking the attack & release on Reason mastering compressors trying get sounds warm and fatten up the sound of a weak bass drum or snare for instance. It wasn't going to make any magic happen with that limited digital sounding compressor. These days with all my experience in how my different compressors sound(transparent/heavily colored/able to really go into heavy crushing musically etc.) I could much much more easily dial in a dramatically fatter, punchier, more consistent sound light years more musically than with the Reason comp. The ability to tune in the most scientifically correct settings comes secondary to the right tools in my opinion.

 

Compressors all act and sound quite differently when you have to push the envelope.

Many of us are in the same boat, its an disadvantage of a daw imho, not being limited

We rush with everything, we are busy installing new plugins, we want to achive fatness wowness and boomness and when we're done

we drop it on the floor. quick results = worthless effort.

I don't want to blow this thread up but as we think of compression we thing of "mastering" and with mastering we think of

transforming a weak mix into a booming mix. we use mastering as an fx turning shit into gold. something that drasticly changes everything.

I wished I could have started with a strongly limited set, instead of just doing plugin hopping all the time.

Instead of thinking about compression I think about EQing twice. I find it more rewarding to know a limited set of tools than,

than just "nextbutting" a truckload of plugin presets you "know".

As you mention compressing good soundsources: a fucking iphone synth or any other crap daw running everywhere can produce firstclass sound.

not as good as using outproduced and already mastered sample sources, true that, but why compress them ? to make it sit in the mix ?

not very rewarding. maybe Im too old, too conservative to understand that new kiddie-mashup-producer-generation doing that boom thing, young brains

need to be penetrated by a hammer to still receive something,to get throu all that noise that surrounds us,into their ritalin sponge. lol and quite often

my own musical output sounds that way, so maybe I should stop preaching.

imho limitation and patience with a song that is worth not being fucked up by the above methods is more rewarding. also EQ > Compression

There was a diver who bought a surplus Algerian compressor to save on fill charges. Only thing was, the instructions were written in Sanskrit and he hooks it up backwards and accidentally removes 3000 pounds from his tank.

Unknowingly, he sticks the regulator in his mouth, takes a breath, and is immediately sucked into the tank, never to be heard from again. I understand his widow in Brooklyn has the tank mounted at the corner of the fireplace.

On second thoughts, let's not talk about compression.

  On 11/10/2011 at 12:26 PM, schlucharski said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 11:08 AM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

blah blaah

blaah blah blah

I agree that compression is not nearly as needed on synthesized elements, before mastering, with electronic music in general, compression is usually only necessary for breakbeats and other really dynamic samples in your mix.

When you bring in more extremely velocity dynamic humanistic elements into the fold, the scenarios in which you require compression are much more frequent.

Let me correct a few of the assumptions you have made in your lengthy response. I do not think of compression as mastering until I am mastering, I use it as your supposed to, only when elements really do need compression to make them work better. I do not rush my work, I am unable to call something even a rough draft unless I feel I have fully spent an embarrassing amount of time trying to maximize all angles. My primary musical outlets all entail IRL organically recorded vocals, guitar, bass and percussion with no more than 40% painstakingly layered sampled sounds or synthesized elements. If I ever use a plugin preset, I end up spending at the very least least 30 minutes changing it dramatically. I do not plug in hop for the sake of plug in hoping, for instance I've been using Waves C4 on most of my vocals for 2 years in some degree, when I find a unit that works great for something, I rarely put another plugin in it's place without completely confirming that it does the job better.

  On 11/10/2011 at 5:09 AM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

 

Compressors all act and sound quite differently when you have to push the envelope.

Do you honestly think so? I mean yeah, obviously they act a bit differently, but seriously, when you have 10 tracks do you really hear what compressor was used on each of them? Or do you even hear the overall difference? After all they all are designed to do the same. I honestly can't hear a difference between a waves compressor and a free 'classic compressor' on the same settings, or even if I can, it's a very small difference that I'm pretty sure no one else exept me will hear.

.... Let me blow your mind hear by saying EVEN EQUALIZATION can sound dramatically more or less MUSICAL from one device to the next. There is good reason why producers that have much better ears and brains for music production than you or I prefer to use things like 6 thousand dollar Manley Massive Passive units for just EQUALIZATION alone or an 8 thousand dollar Manley compressor. When you boost anything up above a few decibels, the musicality or lack there of in your device becomes very pronounced. Again there is certainly less need for envelope pushing sonic magic in your tools if your using completely electronic elements. BUT for instance in order to make even a great drum kit recorded with stellar micing technique in a superb room sound like the bees knees, the better your tape emulation or actual tape compression, analog mixing bus heat/emulation, fat, punchy and shimmering compression, beautifully sculpting EQ devices the more you can get those great drum sounds to hit the mix like woh boner is in the stratosphere AMAZING. Getting top shelf vocals that were recorded without a quality mic pre amp to sound just as tasty to the ears can be just as difficult.

I know all that but still.

  Quote

EVEN EQUALIZATION can sound dramatically more or less MUSICAL from one device to the next

lol@dramatically

I think if used not for mastering all this ultra expensive stuff is mostly just for the producer himself, cause nobody else is going to hear that difference really. Hudson Mohawke's drums in his earlier stuff are recorded with iphone built in mic and they sound totally clear and tidy. Jackson and His Computer Band uses only laptop and his stuff sounds absolutely amazing. Amon Tobin doesn't use expensive outboard gear too. There are other producers much better than you or me who DON'T choose things like 6 thousand dollar Manley Massive Passive units for just EQUALIZATION alone or an 8 thousand dollar Manley compressor but instead choose built in daw compressor and freeware eq and still make awesome mixes.

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:35 PM, Adam Beker said:

There are other producers much better than you or me who DON'T choose things like 6 thousand dollar Manley Massive Passive units for just EQUALIZATION alone or an 8 thousand dollar Manley compressor but instead choose built in daw compressor and freeware eq and still make awesome mixes.

I'm not doubting you, but please list them :)

Ask Monolake about compression!

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:55 PM, psn said:

Ask Monolake about compression!

what's his phone number?

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:39 PM, acidphakist said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:35 PM, Adam Beker said:

There are other producers much better than you or me who DON'T choose things like 6 thousand dollar Manley Massive Passive units for just EQUALIZATION alone or an 8 thousand dollar Manley compressor but instead choose built in daw compressor and freeware eq and still make awesome mixes.

 

I'm not doubting you, but please list them :)

I've already listed three of them :) Tipper only uses Virus and software and his stuff is basically the best sounding stuff I've ever heard. Kelpe also makes awesome mixes only with software.

...Amon Tobin said he used the Manley Massive Passive for EQing almost everything on Foley Room(where he stopped using post mastered samples from records), it's one of very few EQs that still sounds musical when you do extreme sculpting, the analog gluey juicy warmth in the tubes and high quality circuitry are one of many things missing in even in the most high quality digital plugins. There is good reason why the majority of plugins designers are all trying to make their digital products nearly as warm and organic as analog units. One of the only things I've read that digital units inherently do better besides FX like pitch modulation is De-essing.

Again, it depends on the situation, but in my case (using a lot of real life recorded elements and dynamic percussion etc) high quality plugins that went through painstakingly tedious efforts to emulate the sound of analog units are dramatically more easy to use to keep my sound warm and MUSICAL, not like digitally sterile crunchy plastic.

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:58 PM, acidphakist said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 9:55 PM, psn said:

Ask Monolake about compression!

 

what's his phone number?

Monolake didn't use any real compression outside of getting some analog clipping going in a little hot on one of his recent albums. The album as far as I understand was completely electronic, no surprise, it's not irrational to do that with completely electronic music when you are not even coming close to wanting it to be anywhere near loud.

All infighting aside, I have had the pleasure of using a Massive Passive.

To my ears it added some magic to whatever source material you feed it.

Amon Tobin also carried around a heavy field recording device for Foley Room instead of a small convenient digital one why? Because, it records to TAPE, tape is another example of the analog musical warmth in compression amongst other things that sounds extremely different from digital tracking and compression.

Again, I will say that yes, an analog EQ unit or an incredibly well crafted emulation of said delicious EQ compared to a sterile scientifically generated default equalization in a DAW can yes sound dramatically different. If you do a 6 decibel boost at 10k on your default Ableton Live EQ and compare that to the same boost on a Massive Passive and can not hear a big difference? Your ears have not yet come to ripen, you to need get more experience in listening in for the real details in what makes each specific frequency range sweet or sour.

Is this going to be come another analogue vs digital argument?

It became that the moment it was posted.