let's talk about compression

The Blue Line Compressor is probably my favorite compression VST for making individual sounds pop out or turning sharp things into a gluey sludge. When I want to warm something up or enhance the higher frequencies I often turn to the PSP Vintagewarmer. I wouldn't use either for mastering though, that's where T-Racks comes in.

My compression confession is I've been doing electronic music daily for like 5 years & I still don't know shit about compression

  On 11/10/2011 at 10:16 AM, kokeboka said:

Just last night I was discussing compression with someone that does live sound. He owns a huge setup and only has one Behringer compressor that he says he rarely uses - he feels using compression kills the dynamics and intensity of a performance, and he keeps the Behringer exclusively for dealing with inexperienced singers. Aside working on my own music I record garage bands every now and then, and I love using compression on virtually everything - bass, vocals, keyboards, master bus and especially drum tracks. Doing live sound requires a different approach to compression, I suppose. Nevertheless, overdoing it in any ocasion can really muddy up a mix.

that's really not the standard for Live sound work unless the guy is doing classical, acoustic performances or jazz. Compression is an absolute necessity not only on individual channels for mixing the live sound for a rock band but also on the main mix itself, sometimes even after one pass through an amplifier right before a graphic EQ. Even for purely electronic stuff, i find that adding a compressor on the master bus just a little bit of it makes a big difference

wanna try out a FMR RNC [Real Nice Compressor]... heard so much good stuff about them, and they're not that expensive either.

  On 11/10/2011 at 10:41 PM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

Again, I will say that yes, an analog EQ unit or an incredibly well crafted emulation of said delicious EQ compared to a sterile scientifically generated default equalization in a DAW can yes sound dramatically different. If you do a 6 decibel boost at 10k on your default Ableton Live EQ and compare that to the same boost on a Massive Passive and can not hear a big difference? Your ears have not yet come to ripen, you to need get more experience in listening in for the real details in what makes each specific frequency range sweet or sour.

Allright dude you've asked for this. I did a test. I don't have a Massive Passive but I compared waves API 550 eq which costs 160$ with FL studio's bult in eq doing the same 6 decibel boost at 10k. ok this is not a Massive Passive but still a high end software emulation of a high end eq. Do you think it's a big difference? Can you even tell which is which, or even which is better? Dramatically???? Can you actually tell if there's any audible difference at all? Keep in mind that this is only one drum track. Even if you hear a slighest difference now, would you hear it if there were like 7 tracks mixed into one and after that compressed and eq'd and limited again? DRAMATICAL DIFFERENCE???

EQ test.wavFetching info...

And don't say that I need more experience in listening to the 'real' details without having no idea what are you talking about.

I'm not a huge fan of compression... I try to use it sparingly and subtly.

  On 11/11/2011 at 4:14 PM, Adam Beker said:

  On 11/10/2011 at 10:41 PM, Blanket Fort Collapse said:

Again, I will say that yes, an analog EQ unit or an incredibly well crafted emulation of said delicious EQ compared to a sterile scientifically generated default equalization in a DAW can yes sound dramatically different. If you do a 6 decibel boost at 10k on your default Ableton Live EQ and compare that to the same boost on a Massive Passive and can not hear a big difference? Your ears have not yet come to ripen, you to need get more experience in listening in for the real details in what makes each specific frequency range sweet or sour.

 

Allright dude you've asked for this. I did a test. I don't have a Massive Passive but I compared waves API 550 eq which costs 160$ with FL studio's bult in eq doing the same 6 decibel boost at 10k. ok this is not a Massive Passive but still a high end software emulation of a high end eq. Do you think it's a big difference? Can you even tell which is which, or even which is better? Dramatically???? Can you actually tell if there's any audible difference at all? Keep in mind that this is only one drum track. Even if you hear a slighest difference now, would you hear it if there were like 7 tracks mixed into one and after that compressed and eq'd and limited again? DRAMATICAL DIFFERENCE???

EQ test.wavFetching info...

 

And don't say that I need more experience in listening to the 'real' details without having no idea what are you talking about.

Your ears obviously haven't "come of age". Keep at it. You'll get there eventually.

haha

  On 11/11/2011 at 2:19 AM, a missing sense said:

wanna try out a FMR RNC [Real Nice Compressor]... heard so much good stuff about them, and they're not that expensive either.

only budget hardware comp worth bothering with imho

very useful and very portable

-

I do like the way the compressors work on digital yamaha desks, you select a preset close to your needs and dail in the process with one knob as it calibrates all the levels and ratio settings at once so you can hear the effect instantly with little faff.

I'm not a fan of flat radio/car stereo friendly pop mixes and the sidechain electro thing is a little stale now.

my favorite compressor is the archive utility on my mac. also i think compressors make things louder? that's what i use them for. and i say "them," what i really mean is the compressor in ableton, and the compressor in reason, and the compressor in renoise.

  On 11/11/2011 at 4:14 PM, Adam Beker said:

Allright dude you've asked for this. I did a test. I don't have a Massive Passive but I compared waves API 550 eq which costs 160$ with FL studio's bult in eq doing the same 6 decibel boost at 10k. ok this is not a Massive Passive but still a high end software emulation of a high end eq. Do you think it's a big difference? Can you even tell which is which, or even which is better? Dramatically???? Can you actually tell if there's any audible difference at all? Keep in mind that this is only one drum track. Even if you hear a slighest difference now, would you hear it if there were like 7 tracks mixed into one and after that compressed and eq'd and limited again? DRAMATICAL DIFFERENCE???

EQ test.wavFetching info...

 

And don't say that I need more experience in listening to the 'real' details without having no idea what are you talking about.

what really bother's me about this is that it's 5 bars or a 4/4 drum loop.

LOL, super cool static drum loop with no real transient sustain dude...... You're missing a few of my main points.

It can be hard to tell the difference between 256k and 128k mp3 compression when the music is completely electronic with no humanistic elements. Now you throw some real shit like a real drummer hitting cymbals in there and it's not hard to tell that there's big difference at all.

How did you not understand that I've been saying that EQing post mastered samples is at least a dozen times less sensitive than EQing thin vocals, bright guitars, real drums with hot cymbals and all these organic elements with delicate frequency ranges. You don't test an EQ or compressor on how it makes a post mastered shitty drum loop with no transient decays sound.

AGAIN you barely need to EQ or Compress before mastering when your working with fucking post mastered samples and straight up synthesis in a lot of cases.

I didn't get any sleep last night and I can't get to my studio today and I'm sure as hell not going to try to judge that with any speakers but the studio monitors I know very well let alone not these shitty laptop speakers.

compression in abstract digital stuff can make things very autechre

@BFC

Oh cmon. Whatever. What about this? I just recorded myself doing something to guitar specially for this so there was no other procesing except those two same eqs. Do you hear a dramatical difference now? Or any difference?

FUCKING EQ TEST.wavFetching info...

Also, you do need to use eq a lot even if the samples are mastered because the people who mastered it had no idea in what context are you going to use it. You don't need every track in a mix to sound good on it's own, you need a whole thing to sound good.

  On 11/11/2011 at 9:42 PM, Adam Beker said:

@BFC

 

Oh cmon. Whatever. What about this? I just recorded myself doing something to guitar specially for this so there was no other procesing except those two same eqs. Do you hear a dramatical difference now? Or any difference?

 

FUCKING EQ TEST.wavFetching info...

 

Also, you do need to use eq a lot even if the samples are mastered because the people who mastered it had no idea in what context are you going to use it. You don't need every track in a mix to sound good on it's own, you need a whole thing to sound good.

So you admit you need high-end EQ and compression on the overall mix, then.

But actually, mastering is a whole other story. I can't say anything about that because I don't know much about it.

Do you the difference in that last test acidphakist? Just curious...

Make your own EQs in Max/MSP you lazy sods.

  On 11/11/2011 at 10:03 PM, Adam Beker said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But actually, mastering is a whole other story. I can't say anything about that because I don't know much about it.

 

Do you the difference in that last test acidphakist? Just curious...

I love the Fry picture lol

No, I didn't listen. You know I'm taking the piss <3

  On 11/10/2011 at 11:20 PM, Cryptowen said:

My compression confession is I've been doing electronic music daily for like 5 years & I still don't know shit about compression

Yeah, this exactly. Anything on the mastering end is a complete mystery to me. If something doesn't work at all in the mix, I just throw different shit at it until it works well enough for me to hear what's going on. I also do not use monitors.

I guess to me, concept is the most important thing, so I don't stress the rest. If I get to the point where I feel like I have music that could be sold or otherwise published, then I'll start worrying about it.

(sorry this isnt relevant to the thread)

  On 11/11/2011 at 2:19 AM, a missing sense said:

wanna try out a FMR RNC [Real Nice Compressor]... heard so much good stuff about them, and they're not that expensive either.

I had an RNC for a while and I loved it on guitar. Not recorded guitar, I mean actually as an effect before my guitar hit the amp. Other than that I couldn't fucking figure out a single way to use it well. That was a long time ago though.

Compression is pretty overrated, I think*. My experience is: don't bother trying to use compression to “sound pro”, especially if you're making electronic music. Just concentrate on using sounds that sound good from the very beginning. Stuff will always sound better that way.

If you're trying to fucking produce the new James Taylor record, then fine, maybe you need to know how to get sick-ass compression. Other than that, fuck it. Listen to Jeff Mills and turn your mixer up way too loud, then slap the 909 with your dick. Who cares.

* two other things related to compression: 1. What I mean above is, the actual act of compressing a signal is overrated. What is kinda cool if you can find it is (as has been mentioned in this thread) “color” or “character” devices that add a sweet, idiosyncratic aspect to the sound that you like. This can be an expensive compressor or EQ, or it can be a particular half-broken cassette deck that cost 1 dollar. The important thing is not that it compresses (this is boring), the important thing is the color (“color” in this case means whatever you want it to mean).

2. The one good thing I learned about compression from pro dudeguys is this: rarely do you actually want to use a compressor to FULLY COMPRESS a signal. This sounds crazy because most compressors in the digital domain have infinitely fast attacks, so the first thing you do is fire them up, make shit loud, and then go, meh, because it just sounds like soppy wet smushed your track.

Here's the thing: all the “good” compressor sounds in rock music history are of the compressor MOVING. So like, the Beatles? They got snappy drum sounds by cranking up their analog compressors a lot. But their equipment did not have a very fast attack, so the front part of the drum sound gets through WITHOUT being compressed, then the compressor clamps down on the track in a groovy valve-y way, then the next hit comes through, etc.

The point is, in this scenario, the compressor is actually INCREASING the dynamic range of the drums, not decreasing it. It's letting the front part of the drum hit through (probably with some groovy overdrive), then slurping down on the tail of the hit. If you want your drums to pop like Go Plastic you can also give this a try (increasing the attack time on your compressor—for luck I usually like using a prime number like 47 ms).

If you do this, you're still going to have to run a shaper or limiter after your compressor because, again, you are NOT smooshing your track at all. The peaks are just as loud as they were before you put the plugin on, because you are using a larger attack time.

Random opinions. Good luck,

I rather use parallel compression... you mix your dry signal, with a highly compressed version, and slowly slowly turn up the compressed version... it keeps more of the transients of the original. my general rule is turn it up until you notice it, and then turn it down. then use your judgement from there.

  On 11/13/2011 at 1:04 AM, Ascdi said:

I had an RNC for a while and I loved it on guitar. Not recorded guitar, I mean actually as an effect before my guitar hit the amp. Other than that I couldn't fucking figure out a single way to use it well. That was a long time ago though.

 

...

Sounds interesting.. compression as an effect is something I do a lot, even though it's not the pumping house kind of thing I'm after. I'm not much for coloring my sound with a particular piece of nostalgia, but "glueing" sounds together with some quality compression magic works really well..

There's a really nice trick with the REAPER compressor where you can set the look-ahead of the compressor to 100ms, and you can do some really cool stuff with the attack/release settings without overdriving the signal. Pretty interesting for finalizing mixes.

Transient designers are also nice in that regard, but they are a bit like crack: once you get on them you want to put them on every piece of percussion.

btw a cheap transient designer is to use the gate. make it so only a small bit of the hits come through, then blend in the original signal.. parallel gate? it sounds like a transient designer.

Any fans of multiband compression?

  On 11/13/2011 at 6:01 PM, Kcinsu said:

Any fans of multiband compression?

I like it, but the only one I use with regularity (because it did not cost extra dollars) is FL Multiband. Is there anything else out there good that is cheap? I'd love to pick up an affordable multiband compressor plugin that I don't have to be in FL to use.

Good call on the parallel gates on the previous page, bro. That's an excellent idea.