writing melodies

@Kcinsu

Agreed - that's kinda why I put the disclaimer "this isn't directed at anyone in particular"... you dropped a lot of great advice. Just seems like there's a good number of watmmers that want to get good at the knob twiddling but don't want to read for ten minutes and find out what a major triad is...

I recently had to explain what an octave was to a watmmer who claimed to have been making "idm" for something like five years ... so it seemed worth mentioning

You can also try the reverse of starting with chords and progressions. Piece together some notes and rhythms that do not sound connected, then make it a game of adding parts that connect the dots.

  On 12/1/2011 at 2:58 AM, luke viia said:

@Kcinsu

 

Agreed - that's kinda why I put the disclaimer "this isn't directed at anyone in particular"... you dropped a lot of great advice. Just seems like there's a good number of watmmers that want to get good at the knob twiddling but don't want to read for ten minutes and find out what a major triad is...

 

I recently had to explain what an octave was to a watmmer who claimed to have been making "idm" for something like five years ... so it seemed worth mentioning

oh, I'm quite aware... I've had this debate many times. It's just funny that I might have appeared to be on the other side of the argument! Just in this case, I didn't think it was helpful to say "go learn theory".

just keep adding notes til it sounds good then put them back wards (sdraw kcab) (WTF??) then re arrange them and then put them in the blender and then the freeze them over night and put popsicle sticks in them and then eat them and then pee them out and then pour it on your keyboard the end

thanks for reading my post have a nice day

From Maximus Mischife.

  On 11/30/2011 at 11:42 PM, LUDD said:

even the simplest of melodies can sound amazing when layered over the rest of the constituent parts of a song.

I'd go as far as saying that especially the simplest melodies sound good when layered over the other parts of a song. It took me far too long to work out that a good, catchy song is not made up of a few complex parts, but lots of simple parts working together.

to the guys playing guitar as well as they like it: why not jamming with the guitar and creating midi patterns afterwards with Melodyne DNA?

yeah I think that's a fantastic idea, but for me personally it defeats the purpose, I'm really trying to just escape the my guitar crutch all together

I often sing my melodies right into the mic and convert them to midi afterwards with Melodyne + correcting the wrong notes. This makes synth lines sound much more natural then just random jamming. I also play back chords I like on the headphones while singing so I get the right scale.

I also convert complete songs with Melodyne DNA to look up how they are arranged. What also helps is just hitting one key to a melody while listening to it to get into the melodic rhythm of a song. Then if you got the scale its not really important to hit the exact keys just keep the same scale. If you are lazy you can just look up the scale in melodyne too

  On 12/1/2011 at 4:43 AM, Kcinsu said:

  On 12/1/2011 at 2:58 AM, luke viia said:

@Kcinsu

 

Agreed - that's kinda why I put the disclaimer "this isn't directed at anyone in particular"... you dropped a lot of great advice. Just seems like there's a good number of watmmers that want to get good at the knob twiddling but don't want to read for ten minutes and find out what a major triad is...

 

I recently had to explain what an octave was to a watmmer who claimed to have been making "idm" for something like five years ... so it seemed worth mentioning

 

oh, I'm quite aware... I've had this debate many times. It's just funny that I might have appeared to be on the other side of the argument! Just in this case, I didn't think it was helpful to say "go learn theory".

Ah, ok fair enough! I just got the impression that you thought theory was totally pointless.

You guys need to stop being so civil and start mud slinging.

There's no substitute for practice.

Learning the piano roll properly after mostly playing via keyboard was a tough but rewearding journey. Nowadays I'm pretty confident with it, thing is one you get a good sense of the grid, that will make your rhythm easier to program as well.

Live playing usually comes out more natural and it's easier to make things up on the fly. But I made this with the piano roll and it sounds good to me. I'm not trying to show of my melody skills, the tune is mostly about establishing a mood.

http://soundcloud.com/derelic7/piano

Anyway, my tips are, learn scales & chords and then try to think beyond them. chords and scales are not so important as getting a feel for the intervals and what they do to your harmony/sound. Take any note. An additional note anywhere else on the keyboard/roll will add a whole world of color. Sometimes it's complementary, sometimes a way of leading into something else, sometimes it will sound jarring. But there are good kinds of jarring and bad kinds, and being able to tell the difference brings a lot of freedom. And rhythm, where you put that one note in time, is also a big factor.

Yeah good advice in here. I usually start with a beat and a bassline, it's often a simple one. I love simple basslines. Then listen to the rhythm of the bassline and the beat, and mess around on a synth and find out what sounds right. Like other's have said, don't make it too noodly, it will sound like it's going nowhere, tell a story with a melody. I think a melody has to "rhyme" most of the times if you know what I mean - I like a "question and reply" thing going on.

The sound of the synth/instrument is of importance too, it can make the same notes sound a lot different.

And yes, don't be afraid of trying arps and stuff like that, it can really make you come up with something that you hadn't thought of.

I usually sing melodies before sequencing them, often times before I even choose what sound I want to play them with.

  On 12/1/2011 at 10:04 PM, Berk said:

Like other's have said, don't make it too noodly, it will sound like it's going nowhere, tell a story with a melody. I think a melody has to "rhyme" most of the times if you know what I mean - I like a "question and reply" thing going on.

 

And yes, don't be afraid of trying arps and stuff like that, it can really make you come up with something that you hadn't thought of.

Yeah, I use call and response all the time. Blah-blah-go-up-like-a-question, blah-blah-go-down-like-an-answer. It's amazing how effective such a simple trick can be.

Arps can be surprisingly useful too, just play broken chords, change the inversions to taste, and then change the rhythm, jazzing it up a bit. Remove some notes, or slide some along in the piano scroll. Again, don't be afraid to repeat a note twice in a row. This bit can end up being a very catchy rhythm section. I do this in quite a few songs in a forthcoming soundtrack, but alas, I can't share them yet for examples. Walking in the Rain has a jazzed up broken chord type rhythm thing going on though.

Broadening out the subject a bit, I think the best thing to do is find songs you like, analyse them (which takes more time and effort than simply listening to them) and work out what you like about them. Steal little ideas from everywhere, such as using call and response in your main melody, and playing jazzed up broken chords behind it. Just don't try to cram every idea into every song, work out which idea fits best where.

What helped me the most was a good book on jazz harmonics. Jazz is pretty similair to idm as it is also about drums and groove.

Currently I am very much into playing sheetmusic as its the same with drawing: once you have drawn a face well off a drawing by somebody else you can paint it yourself. Same with melodies. Once learned by imitation you can use it yourself in different context. You just get a feel for it by playing it over and over again until you can do it freely

Just pick stuff you like while aware that the most expressive scales / cords are the hardest to play. Like it has been said: if its awesome in a simple form it can easily become complicated while the core feeling is still intact. From complex to easy is much harder if you want some intense effect

  On 12/4/2011 at 12:03 PM, ZoeB said:

Broadening out the subject a bit, I think the best thing to do is find songs you like, analyse them (which takes more time and effort than simply listening to them) and work out what you like about them. Steal little ideas from everywhere, such as using call and response in your main melody, and playing jazzed up broken chords behind it. Just don't try to cram every idea into every song, work out which idea fits best where.

This. The amount of melodies I've stolen from other songs is frightening. Fortunately though, they are all such tiny little snippits that nobody will ever really notice.

  On 12/4/2011 at 8:29 PM, modey said:

This. The amount of melodies I've stolen from other songs is frightening. Fortunately though, they are all such tiny little snippits that nobody will ever really notice.

I don't even go as far as to steal snippets of melodies, so much as ideas like "use a four line vocal throughout the song" (which Moby and Fatboy Slim did an awful lot, and I've done in a few songs now too); "throw in an acid line for the more hectic parts" and "don't be afraid to combine an acoustic and electric piano" (from Praise You, to my remix of 2012); "alternate between two instruments, such as sampled and analogue drums" (PWSteal.Ldpinch.D); "hold the last piano chord, and reverse it" (from Hans Zimmer's Time to my Beginnings). Stuff like that, not actual notes or anything, just ideas of what works well.

i have no musical knowledge. i make everything by ear (i doubt I have perfect pitch, but maybe a lesser version of that?)

most of my shit happens by accident. i like accidents.

this post is probably not useful. sorry.

though i do find I LOVE to make a very, very simple melodic phrase and repeat it over and over until I think of something new to add/different direction to go.

immersion in something simple is a good start. id say.

  On 12/4/2011 at 8:29 PM, modey said:

  On 12/4/2011 at 12:03 PM, ZoeB said:

Broadening out the subject a bit, I think the best thing to do is find songs you like, analyse them (which takes more time and effort than simply listening to them) and work out what you like about them. Steal little ideas from everywhere, such as using call and response in your main melody, and playing jazzed up broken chords behind it. Just don't try to cram every idea into every song, work out which idea fits best where.

This. The amount of melodies I've stolen from other songs is frightening. Fortunately though, they are all such tiny little snippits that nobody will ever really notice.

see this drives me nuts. ITS NOT STEALING FUCKDAMMIT!!

  On 12/4/2011 at 9:58 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 12/4/2011 at 8:29 PM, modey said:

  On 12/4/2011 at 12:03 PM, ZoeB said:

Broadening out the subject a bit, I think the best thing to do is find songs you like, analyse them (which takes more time and effort than simply listening to them) and work out what you like about them. Steal little ideas from everywhere, such as using call and response in your main melody, and playing jazzed up broken chords behind it. Just don't try to cram every idea into every song, work out which idea fits best where.

This. The amount of melodies I've stolen from other songs is frightening. Fortunately though, they are all such tiny little snippits that nobody will ever really notice.

 

see this drives me nuts. ITS NOT STEALING FUCKDAMMIT!!

Zole, easy tiger. It was 7.30am and I hadn't had my coffee. Would 'lifted' or 'borrowed' be a better word?

Wait, is "Zole" me? I didn't mean to insinuate I was offended, sorry if it came off that way. I just wanted to clarify that when I said I steal ideas, I mean that in the "good artists copy, great artists steal" way, not in the "outright plagarise whole riffs" way. I steal ideas, not tunes. Although I don't mind what anyone calls it. I don't want to start arguing semantics. Technically it's not stealing, but it's certainly a catchy idea to call it such, so I'm happy to go along with that.

  On 12/5/2011 at 8:13 AM, ZoeB said:

Wait, is "Zole" me? I didn't mean to insinuate I was offended, sorry if it came off that way. I just wanted to clarify that when I said I steal ideas, I mean that in the "good artists copy, great artists steal" way, not in the "outright plagarise whole riffs" way. I steal ideas, not tunes. Although I don't mind what anyone calls it. I don't want to start arguing semantics. Technically it's not stealing, but it's certainly a catchy idea to call it such, so I'm happy to go along with that.

Haha no, zole is my version of lol. I was talking to smet!

  On 12/5/2011 at 8:38 AM, modey said:

Haha no, zole is my version of lol. I was talking to smet!

Ah, phew. Carry on then! :D

does anyone use a more algorithmic methods like programmable arpeggiators, tenori style apps, force to scale, modular sequencing ect?

  On 12/5/2011 at 12:38 PM, soundwave said:

does anyone use a more algorithmic methods like programmable arpeggiators, tenori style apps, force to scale, modular sequencing ect?

yeah, I mentioned that breifly in one of my posts. I especially like connecting control modules on my Nord, and scaling them to note values, and recording that MIDI output :)

  On 12/5/2011 at 6:07 PM, Kcinsu said:

  On 12/5/2011 at 12:38 PM, soundwave said:

does anyone use a more algorithmic methods like programmable arpeggiators, tenori style apps, force to scale, modular sequencing ect?

 

yeah, I mentioned that breifly in one of my posts. I especially like connecting control modules on my Nord, and scaling them to note values, and recording that MIDI output :)

this really makes me miss my G2. I also liked using the random trigger stuff when you could vary the amount of steps triggers in pre defined length

anyone interested should try the free G2 demo on Clavia's site althouth the external midi is disabled booo