Reading list recommendations for Eugene on the corruption of politics

Actually eugene - theyrule.net was a pretty good source for showing political and corporate connections. The name is a bit dramatic, but it was reliable information. It's kind of been ignored for some time by its creators though, and the interface is not very intuitive.

A better site is Open Secrets

prince hashman - out of the 44 presidents - 4 have been assassinated, 2 have been injured in assassination attempts, and there have been more than 20 attempted assassinations. These do not have to be by shadowy figures - they are most likely done by people who are mentally unstable.

wow.

eugene, you are a saint compared to this guy.

but yeah, i think at this point you would have to tell me what sources you would find believable and ill find said sources talking about corporate influence over American politics.

A great place to start would be a documentary simply called "The Corporation". It obviously has a liberal bias, but IIRC they have a corresponding (or used to) website with links to all the hard information about the topics talked about.

Also plenty of evidence=Eisenhower's resignation speech. If one of the greatest presidents of the 20th Century doesn't count, I don't really know what does.

also Manufacturing Consent, yes its Chomsky the self-hating Jew, but its oneo f the most throughly researched books I have ever read.

Also, Schlesinger and Kinzer's Bitter Fruit, which has tons of evidence proving the connection between the CIA coup in Guatemala and U.S. owned United Fruit Company. This evidence is cited in over 50 pgs of bibliographic information, including (but not limited to) declassified CIA, NSA, military documents and presidential correspondence. If this isn't to be believed by you, nothing can convince you.

Smetty - go back to 1892 and see Jay Gould's (railroad baron) telegraph to president cleveland - "I feel...that the vast business interests of the country will be safe in your hands."

Eugene - here's a great book: Corporation Nation

Another good book (more recent, but the issue is not a new one) is by Lawrence Lessig: Republic, Lost: How money corrupts congress

I'm not following any of this but I read that Ron Paul wants to end the war on drugs in the USA. My limited imagination just doesn't allow such a scenario or President to exist. I would be overjoyed if someone changed my perception though.

  On 12/22/2011 at 8:15 PM, Murveman said:

  On 12/22/2011 at 4:12 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

money does not=quality of life or a healthy democracy.

Disagree, especially now that corporations are people. The right to complain isn't the only factor of a healthy democracy.

You guys need to get that idea repealed. It's fucking idiocy. Not only that, it's based off a court reporter's inclusion of something a judge said in the passing remarks of a case, not any judicial ruling.

Here's why you guys are fucked (and thus we all are if things continue as they are).

"The responsibility for making sure that globalization works lies principally with two groups of people: politicians and business people. Neither group seems an ideal steward. Politicians make a profession of appeasing vested interests; businesspeople would rather think about making money than improving schools” That's a quote from two excellent historians and their book A Future Perfect.

Please note - this is not an argument against globalization, or against the idea of markets - it simply means we need to rethink how they work.

i've seen the corporation a while ago, i don't remember it going deep into the specific process of influence im more curious about, but it beats reading book so i'll check it again tonight. the speech by the pres. too.

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now.

that fruit book looks like the exact thing i'm looking for, so i'll check it some time soon, though you say it's a gov. owned company, it doesnt quite answer the criteria of an outside interest influence.

see, i wasn't trolling.

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:27 PM, chenGOD said:

 

Another good book (more recent, but the issue is not a new one) is by Lawrence Lessig: Republic, Lost: How money corrupts congress

by the amazon description this looks like a good one.

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:44 PM, eugene said:

i've seen the corporation a while ago, i don't remember it going deep into the specific process of influence im more curious about, but it beats reading book so i'll check it again tonight. the speech by the pres. too.

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now.

that fruit book looks like the exact thing i'm looking for, so i'll check it some time soon, though you say it's a gov. owned company, it doesnt quite answer the criteria of an outside interest influence.

 

see, i wasn't trolling.

its not a govt. owned company. it just so happens that the CEOs of that company had very influential positions in government.

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:43 PM, RadarJammer said:

I'm not following any of this but I read that Ron Paul wants to end the war on drugs in the USA. My limited imagination just doesn't allow such a scenario or President to exist. I would be overjoyed if someone changed my perception though.

my thoughts are that if people want to do stupid drugs then they'll find a way to do it whether it is prohibited or not. If the war on drugs ended we would be able to control those substances and maybe even the circumstances people use them in. If heroine was legal tomorrow how many people would do it? Not many.. but I couldn't say the same for psychedelics

yeah the United Fruit Company played a huge role in a bunch of issues down in latin america.

rstark - what you say is all true - I think what the radar jammer was saying though is that while you and I know the war on drugs is a huge drain on taxpayers, presidents and congress will not change this any time soon.

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:44 PM, eugene said:

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now..

How the hell...?

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:53 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:44 PM, eugene said:

i've seen the corporation a while ago, i don't remember it going deep into the specific process of influence im more curious about, but it beats reading book so i'll check it again tonight. the speech by the pres. too.

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now.

that fruit book looks like the exact thing i'm looking for, so i'll check it some time soon, though you say it's a gov. owned company, it doesnt quite answer the criteria of an outside interest influence.

 

see, i wasn't trolling.

 

its not a govt. owned company. it just so happens that the CEOs of that company had very influential positions in government.

i only see your posts when people reply to them now, but you were clearly trolling .In fact you did a dipshit pussy passive aggressive form of trolling where you named all of the people on the forum who butt heads with you and launched child like attacks at them in a small font. Stop being a pussy first off, and stop fucking up my thread. thanks

  On 12/22/2011 at 8:46 PM, prince hashim said:

  On 12/21/2011 at 2:28 AM, Kcinsu said:

I'm fairly sure that if Ron Paul became president, he'd be assassinated.

 

For those of you who actually believe this nonsense, it's time to grow up. You live in a confused, hippie extremist bubble. I don't doubt there would be a possibility of an attempt on his life (as there have been for most presidents), but to make a statement like this puts you in the same lazy-thinking category as free republic neo-con tea partiers who actively pray to the Lord for Obama's death.

paraphrase 'arg you're just as bad as the other side, arg' the false equivalency is quite popular these days.

  On 12/22/2011 at 11:34 PM, Joseph said:

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:44 PM, eugene said:

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now..

 

How the hell...?

can we please just start treating in the same way the forum treats the other trolls (dont feed), thanks

im giving him the benefit of the doubt....but if he can't take Bitter Fruit as a scholastically solid piece of work...I can't take him seriously.

i mean i could see wanting to do that in the same way you would if you were a Dad and your kid asked you the same question, but i just don't think Eugene is every going to listen to reason. And id prefer that he actually had something to say about Ron Paul instead of a blanket (small font, puss out) attack on a cross section of members on this foruum

how can you seriously consider my "disclaimer" as an attack that may somehow actually hurt people..and wtf is with the ignoring ? can't you just scroll down the shit you don't like to read ? this is skytree levels of childishness and lack of sense of humor you're indulging in here.

i won't read the bitter fruit any time soon, but i already downloaded that book chengod mentioned, seems more like what i'm looking for.

what i always hated about watmm is its tendency to circle-jerking, people having unrealistically similar view on things just pisses me off. you can proceed with your thread now.

  On 12/22/2011 at 11:34 PM, Joseph said:

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:44 PM, eugene said:

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now..

 

How the hell...?

how the hell what ? pulling up a PR stunt where he wholeheartedly supports a terrorist, anti-semitic organization that launched rockets at my hometown is not what serious researches do.

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:21 AM, eugene said:

how can you seriously consider my "disclaimer" as an attack that may somehow actually hurt people..and wtf is with the ignoring ? can't you just scroll down the shit you don't like to read ? this is skytree levels of childishness and lack of sense of humor you're indulging in here.

 

i won't read the bitter fruit any time soon, but i already downloaded that book chengod mentioned, seems more like what i'm looking for.

 

what i always hated about watmm is its tendency to circle-jerking, people having unrealistically similar view on things just pisses me off. you can proceed with your thread now.

even if we are to assume awe tends to dabble in overwrought conspiracy theories, he still does so based on evidence from reputable sources. so far I have seen none from you, only criticism.

let's shift the burden of proof....can you find me any sources that state there is no evidence of big-business influencing American policy?

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:25 AM, eugene said:

  On 12/22/2011 at 11:34 PM, Joseph said:

  On 12/22/2011 at 9:44 PM, eugene said:

chomsky is a big no-no of course, he's a been a career anti-zionist, not a true researcher for a while now..

 

How the hell...?

how the hell what ? pulling up a PR stunt where he wholeheartedly supports a terrorist, anti-semitic organization that launched rockets at my hometown is not what serious researches do.

be that as it may, I dare you to find one, ONE relevant critique on Manufacturing Consent from a respected journalist/academic.

you probably won't, but at least we can conveniently say that's due to all of academia being anti-Semite communists.

maybe criticism of Chomsky's political views nowadays is warranted, but Manufacturing Consent is a solid piece of research and analysis.

I don't follow US politics that much. Is Ron Paul like the second coming of Jesus or something? please explain.

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:32 AM, YO303 said:

I don't follow US politics that much. Is Ron Paul like the second coming of Jesus or something? please explain.

no...its just that Americans have been clobbered over the head with caricature figureheads of what our two-party system supposedly stands for, and Ron Paul presents a libertarian caricature which is incredibly refreshing amidst rampant political corruption.

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:27 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:21 AM, eugene said:

how can you seriously consider my "disclaimer" as an attack that may somehow actually hurt people..and wtf is with the ignoring ? can't you just scroll down the shit you don't like to read ? this is skytree levels of childishness and lack of sense of humor you're indulging in here.

 

i won't read the bitter fruit any time soon, but i already downloaded that book chengod mentioned, seems more like what i'm looking for.

 

what i always hated about watmm is its tendency to circle-jerking, people having unrealistically similar view on things just pisses me off. you can proceed with your thread now.

 

 

even if we are to assume awe tends to dabble in overwrought conspiracy theories, he still does so based on evidence from reputable sources. so far I have seen none from you, only criticism.

 

let's shift the burden of proof....can you find me any sources that state there is no evidence of big-business influencing American policy?

 

i have a long history with awepittance, i remember an instance where he brought a review of a film he haven't seen as some kind of proof of israeli crimes, it was a film about israel's use of radiation (rather careless as film shows) treatment of ringworm that he presented as israeli attempt at eugenics. i don't have an energy to check each and every one of his sources in recent topics but he doesn't have a clean record, i assure you.

when i said i want to do some reading i meant it, it was a genuine request as i said. i don't have anything to show that there's no influence.

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:21 AM, eugene said:

 

what i always hated about watmm is its tendency to circle-jerking, people having unrealistically similar view on things just pisses me off. you can proceed with your thread now.

not going to win many friends calling it circle-jerking, lol, but yeah the lack of tolerance for true diversity of opinion comes from the top down. But chill out eugene, I for one disagree with some of your positions but enjoy your arguments and posts...

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:37 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 12/23/2011 at 1:32 AM, YO303 said:

I don't follow US politics that much. Is Ron Paul like the second coming of Jesus or something? please explain.

 

no...its just that Americans have been clobbered over the head with caricature figureheads of what our two-party system supposedly stands for, and Ron Paul presents a libertarian caricature which is incredibly refreshing amidst rampant political corruption.

I have seen some of his videos, i agree with most of his points. But there is NO WAY he will be allow to rule, if he for some miracle gets the presidency he will get assassinated right away, he is too dangerous for everybody on the top (including corporations and drug cartels)