Composing Small, for release on 3 1/4 floppy

I still don´t get why you don´t just focus on making music. Isn´t that what it´s all about?

  On 7/15/2012 at 5:11 PM, JJSee said:

I would love to do the cDak thing, but unless there's a simple way to do this other than figuring out how to program a sound engine (maybe if they released a source I could noodle around) then I'd rather go the easy route. If that changes to be something other than .mid files, I'd love to know how... of course with the caviat that it's easy and intuitive.

See... this is the problem I have with this. I think you should put a lot more work into it than it's going to take to listen to it. You're probably under a deadline but I think you can still come up with something cool and somewhat novel.

Maybe a MIDI file is the best you'll be able to do given the time constraints. But if you go that route make the coolest MIDI file you can.

I would use a healthy amount of pitchbend to mess up the multisampled general MIDI timbres, just a quick minimum or maximum value message to make things sound grainy or tinny, or just throw a slew of random values to make it warbly like chewed tape. Maybe 2 channels with the same program and then slowly, subtly detune one using pitch bend to get frequency beats or flanging. Also you can do tremolo (maybe even AM?) with abrupt CC7 volume messages. Wacky panning (CC10) could be fun too. Maybe brightness or chorus/reverb depth, although those probably aren't widely implemented. Hmm, now I wanna try this :)

Also yelling OMG what a hipster! is the new hipster.

  On 7/15/2012 at 5:50 PM, th555 said:

I still dont get why you dont just focus on making music. Isnt that what its all about?

Then get off the internet and play your guitar.

Very funny, but messing around with old data containers just seems really pointless to me.

Btw, Jjsee, have you already got the stuff necessary for releasing music on floppy disks?

  On 7/15/2012 at 6:14 PM, th555 said:

Very funny, but messing around with old data containers just seems really pointless to me.

As stated previously, it's just a fun challenge. You could argue pointlessness of any endeavor that isn't profitable.

  On 7/15/2012 at 5:37 PM, th555 said:

Well you were addressing that incorrectly. Afx was being "nostalgic" for reasons of aural superiority (and maybe money :P), and you're being nostalgic for reasons I still don't understand. I'm sure though that it's not because floppy's are better or cheaper or more practical.

And you were comparing analog synths with floppy disks, by saying that they're both equally non-hipster, but I think there are quite a few good reasons to use analog synths.

I also think you're the one who should read carefully, especially your own posts. The sentence I quoted isn't even a proper sentence.

 

Anyway, if it still seems like a good idea to you, go ahead and have some fun with it. If there's good music on that floppy I'd like to hear it. If you enable me to haha.

Honestly, even if you don't understand, I've stated this plenty of times. Please refer to the bullet points, I hate restating things I've already said.

I was saying that if using old, dated tech, or old fashions automatically disqualifies me from recieving any sort of respect from some members of this forum, they should look to who they idolize here and ask of them the same things. For whatever reasons AFX, Squarepusher, BoC, or even oneohtrix chose their old tech, they did. By that definition alone, they are just as 'hipster' as I am, regardless of the now-widely-acceptable superiority of their tools. Noone has addressed the idolized here yet extemely 'hipster' Ceephax, with his 80s jumpers and C64 loops. Or addressed that everyone here is just as obsessed with old tech, like 808 kick drums, horribly sampled through DAWs, or fake 303s.

I want to make the music well, which is my main concern, above all. Even .mid can sound strange I'm finding.

  On 7/15/2012 at 5:38 PM, Bewarethefriendlyfoil said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 4:44 PM, JJSee said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 4:18 PM, Bewarethefriendlyfoil said:

Then I misunderstood his post. Still, what he said was retarded and the idea of releasing music on floppy disc is a load of shit. bye.

 

See the bullet list, as this falls into the "I don't care" bullet near the bottom. I should add another bullet, for clarity, I suppose:

• "Format? AAAAAAAAAGH! You're a Shit somehow!" - Get over it, I'm not making it for you.
  

<butthurt rant>

 

"Bye", dude. I disrespect you, completely.

I disrespect you and your silly ideas very much too. throwing a hissy fit because people doesn't appreciate the genius of your amazing idea, like you did on the first page, is pathetic.

 

bye again.

You're throwing a "hissy fit" because someone wants to release something on a floppy disk. Get over your own douchebaggery, please. Or get banned or something, I dunno. At least that would be a positive contribution to this forum.

"Bye" again, please... Please bye. Badbye. Bye.

  On 7/15/2012 at 5:50 PM, th555 said:

I still don´t get why you don´t just focus on making music. Isn´t that what it´s all about?

I am. I just choose to try and find new ways to make my music. Plus I need something to create that's not synth-based, as I'm away from home this summer, so...

  On 7/15/2012 at 6:14 PM, th555 said:

Very funny, but messing around with old data containers just seems really pointless to me.

Btw, Jjsee, have you already got the stuff necessary for releasing music on floppy disks?

I do! I could use more floppies, but yeah, I had bought a USB floppy drive because my MC-500 didn't come with an OS disk so I had to make one.

Also, it could seem pointless to you, but I think I've gone over this more than a few times here. Making small music is challenging and fun, so I wanna do it. Working with limitations spurns my creativity. Putting small music on the internet is dumb. It will get lost, like many other peoples' music does. Releasing an audio CD of 'small music' is dumb because it misses the point. Tape misses the point, too. So does flash media. etc.

  On 7/15/2012 at 7:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

As stated previously, it's just a fun challenge. You could argue pointlessness of any endeavor that isn't profitable.

I think the problem here is not that people think I believe that I'm going to make a billion dollars, I think they're just hatin' to be hatin'. I don't know how one could mis-read my bullet list, but somehow people failed to read it, or what not, and still can't "see why I would want to do this". It seems pretty effin' clear.

  On 7/15/2012 at 4:18 PM, Bewarethefriendlyfoil said:

Then I misunderstood his post. Still, what he said was retarded and the idea of releasing music on floppy disc is a load of shit. bye.

How can I just mass "Report" all of the posts from one user? I can't seem to do it. I keep clicking on Bewarethefriendlytroll's posts but I have to go through EACH one that I think is against the Forum rules on "Flaming" and "Flame Baiting"? Man...

Should I go through the WHOLE forum? Or...

Sorry about the triple-posts, but I can't edit posts for more than like a minute and I have to address this, so....

  On 7/15/2012 at 6:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

See... this is the problem I have with this. I think you should put a lot more work into it than it's going to take to listen to it. You're probably under a deadline but I think you can still come up with something cool and somewhat novel.

 

Maybe a MIDI file is the best you'll be able to do given the time constraints. But if you go that route make the coolest MIDI file you can.

 

I would use a healthy amount of pitchbend to mess up the multisampled general MIDI timbres, just a quick minimum or maximum value message to make things sound grainy or tinny, or just throw a slew of random values to make it warbly like chewed tape. Maybe 2 channels with the same program and then slowly, subtly detune one using pitch bend to get frequency beats or flanging. Also you can do tremolo (maybe even AM?) with abrupt CC7 volume messages. Wacky panning (CC10) could be fun too. Maybe brightness or chorus/reverb depth, although those probably aren't widely implemented. Hmm, now I wanna try this :)

I was thinking along these lines, definitely. I would love a program that can help program all this, the one I have isn't taking any of the CC messages I'm sending, or if it is, it's just not showing me the results of them. I haven't sat down and downloaded the suggested stuff here, trackers and such. Or if even this sort of thing is possible with general MIDI sounds, even. Also, there are no time constraints, I just want to work on it while I have the desire to and while I can't be near my synths.

Also, I planned on making a lot more tracks than one, so I will be working harder ;) And hopefully I can at least somewhat make the music I wanna make, so it'll be good to me, anyway. Haha.

This reminds me of the demo scene. I would totally do this with a tracker and 5-7 very short samples.

  On 7/15/2012 at 5:50 PM, th555 said:

I still don´t get why you don´t just focus on making music. Isn´t that what it´s all about?

this is essentially how i feel. the idea of setting a constraint of some sort on your outlet/means of production is kind of interesting, but...

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:48 AM, YO303 said:

I haven't seen a computer with a floppy disk compartment in years.

this is why i can't understand the release format. at least tapes work as a more ubiquitous and intuitive listening format—you can pick up an old stereo with a tape deck at a charity/thrift shop, but floppy disks approach "purposefully difficult to listen to" status for me. but more power to you.

  On 7/16/2012 at 2:27 AM, JJSee said:

I was thinking along these lines, definitely. I would love a program that can help program all this, the one I have isn't taking any of the CC messages I'm sending, or if it is, it's just not showing me the results of them. I haven't sat down and downloaded the suggested stuff here, trackers and such. Or if even this sort of thing is possible with general MIDI sounds, even. Also, there are no time constraints, I just want to work on it while I have the desire to and while I can't be near my synths.

What are you using to create these midi files? Something from 1991? As far as I know, even early versions of Cakewalk allowed you to do the things you say you're having such trouble with.

If you really want to do some wacky stuff with midi files, check out KeyKit. It's pretty weird, and I'm not sure if you can directly dump anything to .MID directly, but it's kinda cool for algorithmic/chance composition. It's got some nice little sequencer interfaces too. My favourite though is the module that takes two .MID files (works best with short drum patterns) and mutates one into the other over a specified number of repetitions.

  On 7/16/2012 at 2:55 AM, modey said:

What are you using to create these midi files? Something from 1991? As far as I know, even early versions of Cakewalk allowed you to do the things you say you're having such trouble with.

 

If you really want to do some wacky stuff with midi files, check out KeyKit. It's pretty weird, and I'm not sure if you can directly dump anything to .MID directly, but it's kinda cool for algorithmic/chance composition. It's got some nice little sequencer interfaces too. My favourite though is the module that takes two .MID files (works best with short drum patterns) and mutates one into the other over a specified number of repetitions.

This sounds amazing. Yeah, I am using something that's probably pretty old. That's initially why I started this thread, to find something good, intuitive, and does what I need it to, which is output .mid files. KeyKit is something I'm looking up after I type this, so is Cakewalk. I haven't used windows in a really long time, so I'm so used to just going to the software manager and installing stuff that looked good. Honestly, until I started this I had no idea that a .mid author WOULD be newer than 20 years old.

Check out Seq24 as well, you could probably fit that on a disk with all of the .mid loop files and have the listener make their own live mixes.

Checked out KeyKit, won't work on my computer, no 64 bit port has been done apparently. Checking out Seq24 and Cakewalk...

i think it's a cool idea if you do it right. like put several loops, 3, 5, 7 seconds long for example, to be played again eachother to create ever changing piece of ambient music. maybe add a little silly mixer/looper so you can adjust everything from the floppy. now that's fun.

btw, i inhibited like 200 floppys in 2006 or so. watch me go.

A friend of mine released a 10 second splatterpunk/chip song as a .WAV file on a floppy disk earlier this year, what a nutter.

you can pretty much use any daw to write midi file. Even logic will export midi.

Can you have note slides with .mid files?

I've seen the first generation of those before, but I had no idea that you were capable of what the bottom one does at 5:15 !

  On 7/16/2012 at 2:36 PM, gmanyo said:

Word, is that yours? I have an Ensoniq ESQ-1 she's a beauty

  On 7/16/2012 at 3:19 PM, mcbpete said:

I've seen the first generation of those before, but I had no idea that you were capable of what the bottom one does at 5:15 !

the visualisations in the third one confirmed what i suspected from the first time i encountered #1 - they're basically musical cellular automata. they developed a tool to make them but even with a decent bit of C programming, the UI in the tool is totally impenetrable so i haven't fucked around with it much.

(as well, look at the length of the rule in the one you mention - when it gets that long it's not really so much composing with simple programs as it is sequencing in an extremely painful manner :P)

  On 7/16/2012 at 3:33 PM, roasty said:

  On 7/16/2012 at 2:36 PM, gmanyo said:

 

Word, is that yours? I have an Ensoniq ESQ-1 she's a beauty

Nope, but my friend has one, as well as another Ensoniq sampler, and we mess with them all the time.

  On 7/15/2012 at 6:10 PM, sweepstakes said:

Also yelling OMG what a hipster! is the new hipster.

I think I am inclined to mostly agree with this, probably.

  On 7/16/2012 at 4:00 AM, modey said:

Check out Seq24 as well, you could probably fit that on a disk with all of the .mid loop files and have the listener make their own live mixes.

Brilliant idea. Seriously, now someone has to do this.