Psychedelics

dont think you got the quote,

its from Dennis McKenna and the ultimate hallucinogen warning, proper funny but will spare you the details as you'll scoff at whatevers articulated.

cheers for the heads up though n everything bwlad

  On 6/26/2015 at 12:47 AM, Schlitze said:

hashtag psilocybin

 

Soooooooooooo Hashtag

 

Let's drag out the vowels at age 45 & hashtag stuff.

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

P.S. The word "psychedelic" itself comes from psyche (mind) + delos (reveal, make clear).

Psychedelic substances are designated as such because they allow for exploration of the mind. There is no etymological suggestion of learning about "objective reality," except perhaps via learning about the nature of the mind and consciousness.

  On 6/28/2015 at 9:07 PM, wyvern said:

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

i think its the opposite

  On 6/28/2015 at 9:07 PM, wyvern said:

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

What?

Where'd you get that idea?

Have you ever done psychadelics?

  On 6/28/2015 at 10:22 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 9:07 PM, wyvern said:

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

 

What?

Where'd you get that idea?

Have you ever done psychadelics?

 

I kind of agree with him and I have done psychedelics but I think it's just that they aren't for everyone. Sometimes they can induce delusions but I think they can also enlighten you and see beyond your own perception of things.

can completely drug free people suffer from delusions, or do they mostly believe in the predominant consensus reality of their community?

there's no such thing as consensus reality

reality is that which is, there is no other

.

  On 6/28/2015 at 10:24 PM, sonnyskare said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 10:22 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 9:07 PM, wyvern said:

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

 

What?

Where'd you get that idea?

Have you ever done psychadelics?

 

I kind of agree with him and I have done psychedelics but I think it's just that they aren't for everyone. Sometimes they can induce delusions but I think they can also enlighten you and see beyond your own perception of things.

 

Both, you only get the latter in the first few trips. After that, it's all downhill. Nothing to gain from these drugs since you've already experienced them.

  On 6/28/2015 at 10:22 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 9:07 PM, wyvern said:

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

 

What?

Where'd you get that idea?

Have you ever done psychadelics?

 

I've done enough drugs to be considered a badass.

  On 6/29/2015 at 4:51 AM, wyvern said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 10:24 PM, sonnyskare said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 10:22 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 6/28/2015 at 9:07 PM, wyvern said:

Don't do psychedelics. It's bad. Does nothing good for your life. No, seriously. Look what good has come out of using these drugs. Only helps you move away from reality and get more delusional thoughts.

 

What?

Where'd you get that idea?

Have you ever done psychadelics?

 

I kind of agree with him and I have done psychedelics but I think it's just that they aren't for everyone. Sometimes they can induce delusions but I think they can also enlighten you and see beyond your own perception of things.

 

Both, you only get the latter in the first few trips. After that, it's all downhill. Nothing to gain from these drugs since you've already experienced them.

 

"Once you get the message, hang up the phone." -Alan Watts (I think)

I agree mostly

but I do think that

beyond what there is to learn from psychadelics

there still remains the sheer fun of it

  On 6/29/2015 at 2:39 AM, Hoodie said:

there is consensus reality. it's things like government, societal expectations and rules, etc. it's the subjective reality that each one of us has within our heads, and the intersection of all those realities. it might not be fair to call it a type of reality, but it's just semantics imo, so call it what you will.

you're right it's not really fair to call that stuff reality, or at least not the type of reality that we're currently talking about (I like the definition that it's that which exists when there's nothing around to perceive it's existence). If skibby was just referring to the kind of weak social constructionism put forward by John Searle say (money, government, etc.), then we're in agreement, but if he's arguing for the stronger form the continental philosophers, marxists, feminists, etc., tend to favour then we're not.

Take it with a grain of salt but interesting

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/scientists-psychedelic-drugs-safe-as-riding-a-bike-or-playing-soccer/

http://realitysandwich.com/168396/experiment_la_chorrera/

I suppose there is some objective reality that is the same for everybody. Or maybe not, whatever. But there are no objective observers. Everybody is just seeing the shadows on the cave walls and making their own interpretations. Most people see the same shadows, because we are really similar because we're all humans: similar senses, nervous systems, etc. "Consensus reality" for me is the set of commonly acknowledged interpretations for the commonly observed phenomena.

  On 6/29/2015 at 5:50 PM, mokz said:

I suppose there is some objective reality that is the same for everybody. Or maybe not, whatever. But there are no objective observers. Everybody is just seeing the shadows on the cave walls and making their own interpretations. Most people see the same shadows, because we are really similar because we're all humans: similar senses, nervous systems, etc. "Consensus reality" for me is the set of commonly acknowledged interpretations for the commonly observed phenomena.

Yeah, this is true, but this leads to the conclusion that some of these reality-interpretations will be closer to objective reality than others. It turns out we have a means for testing which ones are which, the scientific method. Taking shrooms is not a good means for testing which is which, or for developing novel intuitive interpretations based on the borked empiricism of psychedelic experience. Again, I'm not saying that a critical evaluation of psychedelic experience cannot be enlightening, just that any insight is unlikely to come from ideas generated directly from psychedelic experience itself. I'm also not ruling out the possibilities for creative problem solving from psychedelic trips (or even emotional problem solving, though in many cases emotional problem causing may be more likely), much like dreams often provide our waking world with solutions to problems (I often wake up with the solution to some weird programming issue I'd been dealing with the previous day for example).

Here's some interesting waffle re psychedelics from a philosophical point of view. Don't agree with much of it, but interesting nonetheless. http://www.philosopher.eu/texts/philosophy-and-psychedelic-phenomenology/

just try to imagine how science might work if there wasn't some objective reality to which our subjective experiences refer

(it wouldn't)

  On 6/29/2015 at 7:29 PM, LimpyLoo said:

just try to imagine how science might work if there wasn't some objective reality to which our subjective experiences refer

(it wouldn't)

Yes, I don't think there are personal realities. That seems pretty unlikely. But maybe something more akin to the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Not a single objective reality but constantly branching new parallel realities. Just a hypothetical thought.

  On 6/29/2015 at 12:20 AM, skibby said:

can completely drug free people suffer from delusions, or do they mostly believe in the predominant consensus reality of their community?

You mean religion?

  On 6/29/2015 at 12:53 AM, caze said:

there's no such thing as consensus reality

reality is that which is, there is no other

cool story bro

indeed it is, reality... the greatest story ever told.

Yes, but subjective experiences are real phenomena.

Say Ted Nugent misses breakfast and hallucinates a knife in his neighbor's hand as a result of low blood sugar. If Ted shoots his neighbor, then his unreal notion of the actual state of affairs has produced an entirely real result. And the nature of Ted's (again, unreal) hallucination will determine his real response (e.g., had he hallucinated an icecream cone instead, he and his neighbor could still go bear hunting together).

his perception of the unreal knife was actually a real configuration of neural connectivity and electro-chemical processes, his subjective experience isn't reality, it is a projection of a more fundamental interaction in the really real world. subjectively speaking, there may be no difference between a hallucination of a knife and the visual perception of an actual knife, but objectively only one scenario includes a chunk of metal atoms bound together in space, and neither subjective experience is reality, one merely contains a more readily determined relationship to reality.