UK Drug Policy Commission (UKDPC)

  On 10/15/2012 at 4:57 PM, Hoodie said:

decriminalization is so silly. all it does is perpetuate a dangerous blackmarket. legalization with strict regulation and several safety nets is the only solution imo.

decriminalization in NY state means essentially what hoodie said. if you plead guilty to weed possession, (not a felony, but on the same legal level as a parking ticket), you can indeed be denied financial aid for school (and i assume other gov't benefits if you're poor). it will also show up on background checks as a drug offense that most employers do these days before you are hired for any real job.

lol officer why are you arresting me dont you know drugs are practically legal

/taser /down the stairs

Legal/illegal

drugs are easy to get a hold of regardless

I'm happy that I can get a hold of good quality ganj when I want it

tis all good

  On 10/17/2012 at 8:52 PM, AJW said:

Legal/illegal

 

drugs are easy to get a hold of regardless

 

I'm happy that I can get a hold of good quality ganj when I want it

 

tis all good

 

as long as you got yours, right?

I live in Washington State, have a medical 'get out of jail free' card, and have grown cannabis since I was younger. I see the medical system (more like loophole) as an example of how essentially decriminalizing cannabis leads to nothing more than people being able to handle their lives the way they want. No drug cartels have popped up selling thru med-clubs, no wars wage in the streets. Being able to grow or have a community gardner grow their cannabis eliminates the cartel, annoying taxes and bullshit red tape. Just look at Portugal. I won't vote for the prop 74 or whatever, because what we have now works, and the next step should be decriminalization, not taxation and bullshit pot DUI's...

I cannot speak for drug cartel related crap as mostly that seems centered around hard drugs, but this horseshit about psychedelics, cannabis and entactogens being scheduled with narcotics is what causes problems with overflowing prisons and wasted time. Hard drugs are a different story... don't quite know what to do there, but I favor mass decriminalization.

You want decriminalization but not legalization? What we have now (in WA state) might work for you, as a medical patient, but what about those of us who don't have one of the few conditions that a card is granted for? We should get fined and go to jail?

  On 10/18/2012 at 12:33 AM, luke viia said:

You want decriminalization but not legalization? What we have now (in WA state) might work for you, as a medical patient, but what about those of us who don't have one of the few conditions that a card is granted for? We should get fined and go to jail?

Anyone with a brain and some cash can get one. Do you think I have cancer?

My point is, slabbing taxes, DUI regulations, growing and distribution regulations is a step backwards for those of us crafty enough to bullshit a med card (like 95% of 'med patients') and decriminalization should be the next step, then sensible talk about legalizations without the bull-plop of a state and country taxing flys on the wall to save its fiscal rear-end. The wishy washy med system, while flawed, shows that cannabis can exist, with some tax payout to the state and not destroy the fabric of society... in fact, it seems to have changed nothing other than giving the state millions and having responcible adults do what they want with their bodies...

lol you shouldn't have to bullshit a med card, and neither should I. I am indeed crafty enough, but having it delivered to me by a friend is easier and not quite so overtly dishonest. There are parts of the new legislation I like, and a few parts I don't, but I certainly think it's a better system than having a large percentage of - as you say yourself - phony medical patients, buying semi-legal weed that's advertised about as conspicuously as possible. Suit yourself though. IMO the argument that "it's easy enough to get now" is not a convincing case against legalizing the drug. Yeah, 502 doesn't let individuals grow weed. Neither does the current system. Yeah, 502 passing could mean that you can get a DUID for being high while you're driving. You can get in trouble for that now, too. The new initiative doesn't change any part of the current WA State Medical Use of Cannabis Act.

It's definitely not perfect, but it's a step forward imo.

if the taxes that come with legalization are used to 'bail out" the states, count me in. I seriously doubt that this is what will happen, but im all for taxing legal drugs to fix state deficits.

Id be happy to pay extra to smoke joints in order to get decent socialized healthcare for the cancer from smoking it, but thats just me.

  On 10/18/2012 at 1:42 AM, luke viia said:

lol you shouldn't have to bullshit a med card, and neither should I. I am indeed crafty enough, but having it delivered to me by a friend is easier and not quite so overtly dishonest. There are parts of the new legislation I like, and a few parts I don't, but I certainly think it's a better system than having a large percentage of - as you say yourself - phony medical patients, buying semi-legal weed that's advertised about as conspicuously as possible. Suit yourself though. IMO the argument that "it's easy enough to get now" is not a convincing case against legalizing the drug. Yeah, 502 doesn't let individuals grow weed. Neither does the current system. Yeah, 502 passing could mean that you can get a DUID for being high while you're driving. You can get in trouble for that now, too. The new initiative doesn't change any part of the current WA State Medical Use of Cannabis Act.

 

It's definitely not perfect, but it's a step forward imo.

I don't see it as perfect, but I can see your point for sure. We are both doing something illegal man. Your method is just easier to be caught/charged with doing, and brings your friend into risk for doing so too IMO. Sooo... Potato Potaaaato.

You cannot get a DUID in the current med system and even without a card, you'd have to admit to smoking, have cannabis on you, or submit to a blood test to get charged with one... even then plausible deniability kicks in because of THC's lipid loving nature, plus, the lack of processing when it comes to cannabis possession in king county at least... With the current dishonest system you can grow up to 15 plants, going up to 30 if need be or you are a caretaker... I'd know, as I've walked police through a community garden and they shook my hand at the end for handling the situation so well and abiding by structural/electricity zoning laws.

While I agree that it being easy to fake a medical card is not really the most moral thing ever, it is the system that works best at the moment IMO, and I even think that all people interested should be able to do so, the way it is now, just drop the medical aspect. You may argue that is what they are doing, but its not. It takes the power away from the people. What the fuck good is legalizing if you cannot grow it yourself or for others and it has to be delved out by the state and state growers? Fuck that.

I am not against legalizing the stuff, just against the current measure to do so. It's a plant. Let me grow it for myself and my friends without bureaucratic bullshit is all I ask. I-502 is a step backwards for me as an individual, and as an individual, I don't support it and will wait for an initiative that doesn't do so. Our money/deficit problems should be solved at the root, not this game of Hercules and the Hydra that we have going on currently. I'd prefer to cut our bloated military budget by over half, tax the shit out of our rich and high-earning companies to pay off these things, like a sensible person who doesn't mind having not having the biggest swinging money/war-cock in the world.

(sorry for derailing the thread)

You've got valid concerns for sure, but I will still be voting yes on Initiative 502 and will encourage everyone else to do the same.

I don't see the ability to grow 15-30 "personal" pot plants (that's at least a few pounds if you don't totally botch it) as necessary in any way, and the lack of the right to grow those plants personally doesn't really concern me. Medical patients will still have those rights, they just won't be extended to all adults in the state. So nothing would really change for you on that front.

You asked what good it is to legalize marijuana if you can't grow it yourself -- I ask what good it is to keep it illegal. If 502 is passed, the number of people who can currently grow marijuana legally will go up, not down. Private farmers in Washington state will become registered to sell their new cash crop, and it will be sold in private businesses. According to newapproachwa.org, "I-502 establishes a system for licensing and regulating Washington businesses to grow, process, and distribute marijuana that has met state quality and safety standards. Under I-502, only marijuana grown in Washington can be sold in Washington, and only through designated, marijuana-only stores." At the moment I don't fully see how that is considered 'taking power from the people.'

Basically, you will still be able to grow it for yourself if 502 passes, since you got yourself a med card. Others will still be free to do the same. Those of us that don't pretend to have, or exaggerate, medical conditions (not trying to be an ass, but I don't know how else to put that) will also be able to enjoy a puff without fear.

I should admit that I don't drive, and that I certainly don't condone driving stoned enough to be pulled over for it. Nonetheless, you won't be in trouble for lingering levels of THC-COOH in your blood. Wait a few hours after smoking and you should be fine.

As for where the taxed income on marijuana would go (mostly @ smetty and others interested), here's some info/graphs. "According to the state Office of Financial Management, I-502’s new 25% marijuana excise tax, combined with retail sales and B&O tax, would generate more than a half-billion dollars in new tax revenue annually. Approximately $182 million would go to the state general fund, $34 million to local budgets, and $366 million to health care, education, and prevention."

√ on I-502 plz

and yeah...sorry for the threadjack

If any state legalizes MJ, that will be huge progress even if said bill isn't entirely desirable. On the surface and in the mainstream it will bring awareness to those that may think such a concept is impossible/undesirable. It's a sign of a cultural shift and will give confidence to other states/voters, that change can happen.

The DUI thing is still flawed, it doesn't account for frequent users who have a high tolerance and high output of cannabinoids, how would they judge what baseline is when they have no knowledge of your 'sober' tolerance and cannabinoid output. The growing thing is a big deal to anyone who wants to be self sufficient IMO. I get that state approved places will grow, but taking the ability for normies to grow their own crop is just plain stupid to me as it's the same as now, only you can possess, buy, and smoke as long as you pay the state and go to a store with 'state approved quality' buds... It takes the power away from the people to grow the plant is what I meant.

I just have a bias, me thinks. I have had medical privileges for 4 years, I work part time at a dispensary, grow my own and friends, and enjoy freedom already through my legal loophole... But I agree, that a step forward is a step forward. I have grown illegally before med status and never had problems so I guess this doesn't effect me even if I let it expire. I am just being selfish

I am probably going to vote yes now, for all you people who are honest. But I wont be happy about it... Thanks for the good discussion Luke!

thanks for bringing up concerns that hadn't even crossed my mind!

You're right about the DUI thing, it won't be easy (or possible...?) for them to judge your actual tolerance, which is true of alcohol too (most drugs it seems). And again you're right, it's a bummer that people won't have the ability to grow their own with this particular legislation. But like compson pointed out, it's a step closer, and tbh it's hard for me to imagine the state ever granting people the right to grow / produce their own drugs... There's so much money and (in their eyes) potential danger involved that they will almost certainly always step in and try to regulate things.

  On 10/18/2012 at 5:29 AM, luke viia said:

 

thanks for bringing up concerns that hadn't even crossed my mind!

 

 

You're right about the DUI thing, it won't be easy (or possible...?) for them to judge your actual tolerance, which is true of alcohol too (most drugs it seems). And again you're right, it's a bummer that people won't have the ability to grow their own with this particular legislation. But like compson pointed out, it's a step closer, and tbh it's hard for me to imagine the state ever granting people the right to grow / produce their own drugs... There's so much money and (in their eyes) potential danger involved that they will almost certainly always step in and try to regulate things.

About the DUI thing, on paper it looks bad but IRL I doubt it will be a problem. If they wanted the bill to have any sort of chance they HAD to shove a bunch of tasteless shit in there. Judges do take things case by case and it shouldn't take long for that stuff to work itself out naturally.