'Global Warming's Terrifying New Math'

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:03 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

The evidence is so overwhelming it is now widely accepted at this point.

like i said, not debating it. i agree too that its the trigger to Ice ages. but there are other factors too, its not the sole reason we have ice ages. it along with other factors are why Ice Ages occur. thats what i was saying.

  On 10/24/2012 at 1:33 AM, Salvatorin said:

Godwin I'm not really understanding you, are you saying that the warming feedback cycles such as glacial melting, permafrost, deforestation, ocean acidification, etc. are signs of a coming ice age, or that it will get hot and then cold?

Jesus, Salv, you really got this from what I wrote, or are you trolling?

I'm saying that local water problems have much to do with human 'development'. That includes deforestation, regulating rivers (building concrete banks, re-routing streams, etc..), building dams and so on. It causes water cycles to change and become irregular, sometimes they even disappear. Therefore the drought/water failures... scenario you pointed out earlier. The effect is of course emphasized and influenced also by the coming ice age. The water cycles I mean, not the deforestation stuff.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:17 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:03 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

The evidence is so overwhelming it is now widely accepted at this point.

like i said, not debating it. i agree too that its the trigger to Ice ages. but there are other factors too, its not the sole reason we have ice ages. it along with other factors are why Ice Ages occur. thats what i was saying.

 

Oh yeah its the combination of things, that being a factor in it as well. Mainly but not limited tothe orbital conditions such as the Earth's eccentricity around the sun and tilt.

  On 10/24/2012 at 1:00 AM, Salvatorin said:

I'm a little confused, since when is the idea of human-originated climate change false?

 

i don't think anyone with any common sense would say that, but i do think at least for the "non-scientific" part of the community, there seem to be tons of different conflicting messages regarding the seriousness, intensity, and immediacy of the effects. and yeah, part of that is the "global warming is false and a liberal conspiracy" ...but a lot of it is conflicting reports within the scientific community....so i mean, im in the position taht any regulation against fossil fuels/releasing chemicals into the air is just a safe bet all around, but at the same time I don't know whether to lend creedence to a more moderate "global warming is bad over a protracted period of time" or the "NEW YORK CITY AND MOST OF THE EAST COAST WILL BE UNDER 5 FEET OF WATER IN A DECADE".

Would you all care to read my class powerpoints? I can upload them.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:27 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

Would you all care to read my class powerpoints? I can upload them.

 

I would be interested. =)

This thread is just confusing me. I've read like a dozen books on climate change, many legit scientific articles, every single IPCC report...and I get a handful of 90's looking html websites from the early 2000's to try and tell me....what exactly?

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:43 AM, StephenG said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:27 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

Would you all care to read my class powerpoints? I can upload them.

 

I would be interested. =)

 

Yeah, seconded! I would like to be educated on what's what in the community actually doing this research.

I just don't understand people. The nature is our cradle. We've been learning from it and working along her side for thousands of years. And now, in the name of 'development' we will ditch all that wisdom, observations and symbiosis and make piles of trash our civilization would like to drown in. Everything in nature is re-usable. Everything. Nothing goes to waste. And then a fat capitalist fuck comes around and thinks he knows better than a millions of years of evolution.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:44 AM, Salvatorin said:

This thread is just confusing me. I've read like a dozen books on climate change, many legit scientific articles, every single IPCC report...and I get a handful of 90's looking html websites from the early 2000's to try and tell me....what exactly?

 

I would expect you, as the person who has read all that, to be capable of summarizing important points.

 

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:44 AM, Godwin Austen said:

I just don't understand people. The nature is our cradle. We've been learning from it and working along her side for thousands of years. And now, in the name of 'development' we will ditch all that wisdom, observations and symbiosis and make piles of trash our civilization would like to drown in. Everything in nature is re-usable. Everything. Nothing goes to waste. And then a fat capitalist fuck comes around and thinks he knows better than a millions of years of evolution.

 

ok, im gonna have to be the contrarian here and say waste of natural resources amongst the human race has happened since its inception.

 

there is overwhelming evidence that native american tribes, which for so long have been used as this cornerstone of anarcho-primitivist conservation.

 

there isn't an easy answer to the humanity+nature=happiness equation

if your age is correct zigg then that means that your powerpoints are from a college class. i would seriously get permission before posting that. unless you made them. trust me, they will find out. even here. but i too would like to see em.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:47 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

if your age is correct zigg then that means that your powerpoints are from a college class. i would seriously get permission before posting that. unless you made them. trust me, they will find out. even here. but i too would like to see em.

 

Should be legal to share educational stuff. Heck in the Class page someone uploaded the PDF version of the book lol.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:49 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:47 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

if your age is correct zigg then that means that your powerpoints are from a college class. i would seriously get permission before posting that. unless you made them. trust me, they will find out. even here. but i too would like to see em.

 

Should be legal to share educational stuff. Heck in the Class page someone uploaded the PDF version of the book lol.

well, i just say cause many colleges actively search for students posting class material on the internet. they get really serious about that shit.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:54 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:49 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:47 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

if your age is correct zigg then that means that your powerpoints are from a college class. i would seriously get permission before posting that. unless you made them. trust me, they will find out. even here. but i too would like to see em.

 

Should be legal to share educational stuff. Heck in the Class page someone uploaded the PDF version of the book lol.

well, i just say cause many colleges actively search for students posting class material on the internet. they get really serious about that shit.

 

how would they even know who he is, fo real

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:46 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:44 AM, Godwin Austen said:

I just don't understand people. The nature is our cradle. We've been learning from it and working along her side for thousands of years. And now, in the name of 'development' we will ditch all that wisdom, observations and symbiosis and make piles of trash our civilization would like to drown in. Everything in nature is re-usable. Everything. Nothing goes to waste. And then a fat capitalist fuck comes around and thinks he knows better than a millions of years of evolution.

 

ok, im gonna have to be the contrarian here and say waste of natural resources amongst the human race has happened since its inception.

 

there is overwhelming evidence that native american tribes, which for so long have been used as this cornerstone of anarcho-primitivist conservation.

 

there isn't an easy answer to the humanity+nature=happiness equation

First, it was a minor rage-burst of mine, not entirely relevant to the topic, therefore I appologize for it.

But lemme say if you use the word 'waste', you wont find a supporting example in our far history. First, there weren't that many of us to make such an impact. Secondly, they knew of their inferiority against the nature. And that they are dependant on it. Their whole sense of being was built around fertility and natural cycles. They had respect. They knew that whatever you take, you must also give something back. And that was the sole doctrine. But then, the trade came around, with it, the desire of accumulating more than you need, and eventually fucked everything up.

 

I believe the equation you talk about is most possible. It was present in our history. But there is so much to be done to bring it back, no wonder it seems impossible. Not with an iPhone in your pocket being more important than eating healthy food (not saying you have an iPhone though)

10 minutes till upload finishes.

Actually PM Me if you want it. How about that ;)

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:56 AM, Hoodie said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:54 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:49 AM, ZiggomaticV17 said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:47 AM, Frankie5fingers said:

if your age is correct zigg then that means that your powerpoints are from a college class. i would seriously get permission before posting that. unless you made them. trust me, they will find out. even here. but i too would like to see em.

 

Should be legal to share educational stuff. Heck in the Class page someone uploaded the PDF version of the book lol.

well, i just say cause many colleges actively search for students posting class material on the internet. they get really serious about that shit.

 

how would they even know who he is, fo real

they can find you, its not that hard. but the point is, if his college wants to they could destroy his life over it.

I am glad this sparked a debate with cited materials. I will openly admit to scientific ignorance of a lot of it, coupled with a looming dread fueled by the idea that we could all be underwater or covered in skin cancer in 20 years.

I'm too tired to try and do this right now. but anyhow

Well I just looked at this recent doc by the IPCC http://www.ipcc-wg2.gov/SREX/images/uploads/SREX-All_FINAL.pdf

and I'm not entirely accurate in bringing up floods and droughts as 'symptoms' of global warming really. In some places those things are predicted to decrease actually. but extreme weather patterns are predicted to increase, and godwin you are right in talking about resource management, because many of the ways various populations have chosen to use and depend on water are very vulnerable. And various infrastructures are poised to fail, or something, sooo tired

It's not that there are "various populations that have chosen to use and depend on water". The whole life on Earth is water-based. You mess with water, you mess with your own existence.

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:56 AM, Godwin Austen said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:46 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 10/24/2012 at 2:44 AM, Godwin Austen said:

I just don't understand people. The nature is our cradle. We've been learning from it and working along her side for thousands of years. And now, in the name of 'development' we will ditch all that wisdom, observations and symbiosis and make piles of trash our civilization would like to drown in. Everything in nature is re-usable. Everything. Nothing goes to waste. And then a fat capitalist fuck comes around and thinks he knows better than a millions of years of evolution.

 

ok, im gonna have to be the contrarian here and say waste of natural resources amongst the human race has happened since its inception.

 

there is overwhelming evidence that native american tribes, which for so long have been used as this cornerstone of anarcho-primitivist conservation.

 

there isn't an easy answer to the humanity+nature=happiness equation

First, it was a minor rage-burst of mine, not entirely relevant to the topic, therefore I appologize for it.

But lemme say if you use the word 'waste', you wont find a supporting example in our far history. First, there weren't that many of us to make such an impact. Secondly, they knew of their inferiority against the nature. And that they are dependant on it. Their whole sense of being was built around fertility and natural cycles. They had respect. They knew that whatever you take, you must also give something back. And that was the sole doctrine. But then, the trade came around, with it, the desire of accumulating more than you need, and eventually fucked everything up.

 

I believe the equation you talk about is most possible. It was present in our history. But there is so much to be done to bring it back, no wonder it seems impossible. Not with an iPhone in your pocket being more important than eating healthy food (not saying you have an iPhone though)

 

fair enough, but the question is then how to solve that, as we obviously cannot go back to the pre-Neolithic ages of man.

we might end up doing so not of our own choosing.

"The fourth world war will be fought with sticks...etc"

  On 10/24/2012 at 3:45 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

fair enough, but the question is then how to solve that, as we obviously cannot go back to the pre-Neolithic ages of man.

I don't believe we have made any major progress besides our technology. Mentally and emotionally we're pretty infantile, even declining if you think about it! How about we work on that for a start. I absolutely love the Kubrick's Odyssey. What happens when human's own tools (developing from a simple sticks and stones to overwhelming abilities to go beyond our physical strenght) surpass their creators (humans)? From the (sentient) tools' point of view we've become a underdeveloped entities with no place left to claim our own. Hence, HAL tries to kill Bowman. But that is our creation's point of view. And that point of view will exist as long as we push just one curve of development.