The Difference Between Right & Wrong

  On 12/14/2012 at 8:35 PM, luke viia said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 7:22 PM, Redruth said:

the whole objective / subjective debate is a distraction, don't fall for it limpy

 

This is the real trap. There was never a right and wrong.

 

*plants feet firmly in relativism*

 

sad it took 25 posts to get to that.

human beings are often reluctant to admit the absolute exists, we like to keep things conveniently vague. we want to do what we want to do

e.g. I am a vegan. I believe in/adhere to animal rights quite stringently.

But still, what I believe is 'wrong' is still just an extrapolation of my personal values and does not refer to an absolute.

I wish, though.

  On 12/14/2012 at 9:23 PM, LimpyLoo said:

what I believe is 'wrong' is still just an extrapolation of my personal values and does not refer to an absolute.

 

how can you say this with such certainty? it sounds as if you are more certain of your own belief being an extrapolation then you are of it not? who would know better how you feel and where the feeling is coming from then you, yourself? could it not be possible that in your heart you are referencing the absolute and it is the universe, the world that has gone out on its own? with the universes black hole appetite and natures death and destruction always being excused because of the life that also exists. life is good but the eating of light, suffering and premature death is just part of the process? how can we, given our perspective, definitively say that death is necessary, that all these things are truly necessary? we are forced to except it no? the world forces us to accept it based on what we learn by example. not an example i would like to follow. are we then slaves to death or do we have the choice to support only life? whether it be purely in what we believe or also in what we do.

we are not slaves to the ways of the world, we are here to help heal the world. we need only remember past what we have been conditioned (brainwashed) into thinking. the truth is there, waiting

There is no evidence to support that morality (or any type of value, for that matter) exists outside of the mind.

The evidence that I see is that people who hold value X (e.g. human life is sacred) think that Y (e.g. murder) is morally wrong, where Y is anything that threatens or harms X.

Law of Cardamom (Norwegian: Kardemommeloven) is the only law in Cardamom Town. The law is simple and liberal:

One shall not bother others, one shall be nice and kind, otherwise one may do as one pleases.

Perfectly stated.

Its all a matter of conditioning and how one was taught. If a man is raised by a wolf and sees it as a way to model its behavior he will have the right and wrong of that world of thought.

Death by slaughtering of people and war is not necessary... but, 'death' is necessary. IMO the way we view death is short sighted. A body still feeds life even when dead and decomposing and the memories of that being still carry with the ones that knew it in life, so it is the death of the physical being but aides the life of the world around it. The cosmos are another reflection of this on a grander scale IMO.

We need no wars, no money and no government, like all beings. These things are shackles disguised as freedom.

This thread is confusing.

  On 12/14/2012 at 7:33 PM, Redruth said:

yea, it's all about how something makes you feel limpy, in your heart parts. if we feel sad then it's bad. then there are some people who have less of a capacity to 'feel' in their hearts parts and those of us

with more of an advanced capacity need to help them love more. sounds simple right? not so simple. the concept is simple but the task of love is complex in its application. love is very contingent

on wrong and right

alright ill bite.

You are fucking retarded (and i mean that in a wholly different class-no offense to mentally retarded people). "Feeling" something with your heart other than its mechanical functions is physically impossible. For starters.

Second, there is no way to measure the "rightness" of emotion.

How the fuck can you say its an absolute and that some people have less of a capacit-

You know what, I'm just going to stop before my mind explodes from all the DUH.

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop.

  On 12/14/2012 at 10:24 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

The evidence that I see is that people who hold value X (e.g. human life is sacred) think that Y (e.g. murder) is morally wrong, where Y is anything that threatens or harms X.

i like this

  On 12/14/2012 at 10:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 7:33 PM, Redruth said:

yea, it's all about how something makes you feel limpy, in your heart parts. if we feel sad then it's bad. then there are some people who have less of a capacity to 'feel' in their hearts parts and those of us

with more of an advanced capacity need to help them love more. sounds simple right? not so simple. the concept is simple but the task of love is complex in its application. love is very contingent

on wrong and right

 

alright ill bite.

 

You are fucking retarded (and i mean that in a wholly different class-no offense to mentally retarded people). "Feeling" something with your heart other than its mechanical functions is physically impossible. For starters.

 

Second, there is no way to measure the "rightness" of emotion.

 

How the fuck can you say its an absolute and that some people have less of a capacit-

 

You know what, I'm just going to stop before my mind explodes from all the DUH.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop.

 

i've a fairly good idea what i'm talking about actually, thank you very much. a better idea then you seem to have anyway.

no offense (strange saying that since you have shown little or no tact in your posting with me for months now), but i do not expect everyone to understand these types of subtle, esoteric, (more spiritual then physical) types of concepts, although, never-the-less, some people do. just as you and others ridicule me for not adhering to your code of physical reality, proofs and sciences, i also feel strongly regarding what i know to be true and just as you lot have the freedom to express your empirical facts on this board, so do i.

you can look at it as a bit of leveling the playing field on watmm, or whatever if you'd like. remember, just because one dose not see something does not mean it does not exist. if we are so puffed up to think our current human made perspectives and abilities (technology or otherwise) are so advanced, then we should jump back some thousands of years and we might better understand what is seen by us and what is hidden. we might understand that we felt we were as advanced as we do now but instead were just as naive and opaque. there are many things that will continue to elude us because they do not appear or bleep on our physical screen, but they are there. have you heard of the cloaking device? oh' that is just science-fiction right? some of the most important things are directly in front of us, right now, yet we do not see or don't want to see them or they are purposely hidden because of the human lust for earthly power and money. this thread is actually revealing a collection of them. they are not glitzy and shiny like jewels or the ring from tolkien, they are small and seemingly worthless. discarded and disgraced. they are often seemingly without value. still others are misinturprited, like the stars and the moon and the planets and the sun

we are in dimensional reality (physical reality) right now, so unless we 'squint' or gain a proper vantage point then that is all we will see. it is no different then standing with ones nose pressed up against the dirt on the side of a mountain and expecting to see the entire mountain. you will never see it in its entirety until you back away and gain proper perspective

I am becoming more in tune with my heart.....I feel a strong resonating hate for something...

well, there you go then

i'm coming to a conclusion there are certain extreme levels of idiocy that should be deemed immoral

  On 12/15/2012 at 12:36 AM, Redruth said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 10:24 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

The evidence that I see is that people who hold value X (e.g. human life is sacred) think that Y (e.g. murder) is morally wrong, where Y is anything that threatens or harms X.

 

i like this

 

 

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 10:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 7:33 PM, Redruth said:

yea, it's all about how something makes you feel limpy, in your heart parts. if we feel sad then it's bad. then there are some people who have less of a capacity to 'feel' in their hearts parts and those of us

with more of an advanced capacity need to help them love more. sounds simple right? not so simple. the concept is simple but the task of love is complex in its application. love is very contingent

on wrong and right

 

alright ill bite.

 

You are fucking retarded (and i mean that in a wholly different class-no offense to mentally retarded people). "Feeling" something with your heart other than its mechanical functions is physically impossible. For starters.

 

Second, there is no way to measure the "rightness" of emotion.

 

How the fuck can you say its an absolute and that some people have less of a capacit-

 

You know what, I'm just going to stop before my mind explodes from all the DUH.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop.

 

 

i've a fairly good idea what i'm talking about actually, thank you very much. a better idea then you seem to have anyway.

 

no offense (strange saying that since you have shown little or no tact in your posting with me for months now), but i do not expect everyone to understand these types of subtle, esoteric, (more spiritual then physical) types of concepts, although, never-the-less, some people do. just as you and others ridicule me for not adhering to your code of physical reality, proofs and sciences, i also feel strongly regarding what i know to be true and just as you lot have the freedom to express your empirical facts on this board, so do i.

 

you can look at it as a bit of leveling the playing field on watmm, or whatever if you'd like. remember, just because one dose not see something does not mean it does not exist. if we are so puffed up to think our current human made perspectives and abilities (technology or otherwise) are so advanced, then we should jump back some thousands of years and we might better understand what is seen by us and what is hidden. we might understand that we felt we were as advanced as we do now but instead were just as naive and opaque. there are many things that will continue to elude us because they do not appear or bleep on our physical screen, but they are there. have you heard of the cloaking device? oh' that is just science-fiction right? some of the most important things are directly in front of us, right now, yet we do not see or don't want to see them or they are purposely hidden because of the human lust for earthly power and money. this thread is actually revealing a collection of them. they are not glitzy and shiny like jewels or the ring from tolkien, they are small and seemingly worthless. discarded and disgraced. they are often seemingly without value. still others are misinturprited, like the stars and the moon and the planets and the sun

 

we are in dimensional reality (physical reality) right now, so unless we 'squint' or gain a proper vantage point then that is all we will see. it is no different then standing with ones nose pressed up against the dirt on the side of a mountain and expecting to see the entire mountain. you will never see it in its entirety until you back away and gain proper perspective

 

hey troon do you think it's possible to be live a moral life with a strong ethical code as a human without having to believe in any of what you've just laid out for us? Do we need to have a spiritual connection to ANYTHING to have a fulfilling connection to other people and our planet?

to me it's actually highly disrespectful to humans to constantly thank a higher power of any kind for the gifts of art, music, beauty that others have bestowed upon us. "it's the lord that put his genius inside autechre or miles davis or anyone!" Doesn't seem more amazing and powerful when we don't reduce human works of incomprehensible genius to our easy way out excuse of a spiritual power. It's an invented catch-all for what we can't understand, and in the end reduces the impact that humans have on each other. I'm not sure if this is what you're touching on in that post almost reaching sini levels of inanity, but seems like it's something for you to think about.

"When people lose their sense of awe, they turn to religion." Lao-Tzu said that in FUCKING 300 BC. He understood way back then that something is lost when you go looking for "the answers" especially the spiritual ones. Can't you just live your life without having to describe the world in vague statements of things you can or can't see, things you can know and not know?

Good question OP

Is it moral to give free heroin to little kids that don't have heroin? (just cause i have heroin to give away)

I guess what i'm saying we should be able to teach kids to grow their own heroin so dont bother the grumpy drug dealer who may or may not pull a knife on them because the kid owns him money or something.

Do we really want kids to use lego as currency to buy drugs? 150 legos = half a brick of heroin .. thats a steal but legos are more valuable to kids than money.

  On 12/14/2012 at 10:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 7:33 PM, Redruth said:

 

yea, it's all about how something makes you feel limpy, in your heart parts. if we feel sad then it's bad. then there are some people who have less of a capacity to 'feel' in their hearts parts and those of us

with more of an advanced capacity need to help them love more. sounds simple right? not so simple. the concept is simple but the task of love is complex in its application. love is very contingent

on wrong and right

alright ill bite.

 

You are fucking retarded (and i mean that in a wholly different class-no offense to mentally retarded people). "Feeling" something with your heart other than its mechanical functions is physically impossible. For starters.

 

Second, there is no way to measure the "rightness" of emotion.

 

How the fuck can you say its an absolute and that some people have less of a capacit-

 

You know what, I'm just going to stop before my mind explodes from all the DUH.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop.

Why do you have to act like a 16 year old girl telling their parents off? It doesn't make you look any bit intelligent to call someone names and be too good to even give a decent responce to the thread. Fuck off and go to a different thread if you have a problem with the op. I'm surprised troon is respectful at all of your feelings as you sling shit his way any chance you get.

Discussion is discussion, you don't see him calling you a retard for your banterings and psycological bibble babbling so grow the fuck up. How old are you like 40? You sure don't act like it...

why is it okay to call redruth 'fucking retarded' when doing that to any other member would be grounds for at least some kind of moderator attention?

the mods are more than welcome to warn me.

Im not 40 either.

  On 12/15/2012 at 3:15 AM, Audioblysk said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 10:50 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

 

  On 12/14/2012 at 7:33 PM, Redruth said:

 

yea, it's all about how something makes you feel limpy, in your heart parts. if we feel sad then it's bad. then there are some people who have less of a capacity to 'feel' in their hearts parts and those of us

with more of an advanced capacity need to help them love more. sounds simple right? not so simple. the concept is simple but the task of love is complex in its application. love is very contingent

on wrong and right

alright ill bite.

 

You are fucking retarded (and i mean that in a wholly different class-no offense to mentally retarded people). "Feeling" something with your heart other than its mechanical functions is physically impossible. For starters.

 

Second, there is no way to measure the "rightness" of emotion.

 

How the fuck can you say its an absolute and that some people have less of a capacit-

 

You know what, I'm just going to stop before my mind explodes from all the DUH.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop.

Why do you have to act like a 16 year old girl telling their parents off? It doesn't make you look any bit intelligent to call someone names and be too good to even give a decent responce to the thread. Fuck off and go to a different thread if you have a problem with the op. I'm surprised troon is respectful at all of your feelings as you sling shit his way any chance you get.

 

Discussion is discussion, you don't see him calling you a retard for your banterings and psycological bibble babbling so grow the fuck up. How old are you like 40? You sure don't act like it...

 

that's the thing though, if you have listened to him preach like this time and time again, he isn't polite about it. he leaves passive-aggressive jabs into absolutely everything. anyone who disagrees with him is unenlightened and caught up in the maelstrom of the physical or whatever.

ive been politely trying to explain to him over and over, as have many other people here, why what he says doesn't make sense. after a while the need to be polite is pointless.

I'd happily back out of this thread and pledge never to post in a troon thread again in exchange for him not sharing it in other threads.

this chick sums it all up methinks:

OP reminds me of

my pen is objectively likes being inside my girlfriend's vagine.

  On 12/15/2012 at 2:08 AM, dr lopez said:

 

"When people lose their sense of awe, they turn to religion." Lao-Tzu said that in FUCKING 300 BC. He understood way back then that something is lost when you go looking for "the answers" especially the spiritual ones. Can't you just live your life without having to describe the world in vague statements of things you can or can't see, things you can know and not know?

 

i am interpreting this to mean that when people see through the seduction of the world then they gain true perspective and find their way back to their true selves. true priorities. religion translates to: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. it is not the churchy church, the false church or all that hubbub, the true church is your human body. it is what we devote our lives to the most with this human body. what do we spend the most part of our time doing? how much does it help the world? how relevant is the way that it helps the world? these are good questions.

the majority of the world learns to make money, to survive any way that it can, architecture, engineer, police officer, movie maker, pianist at 5 years old, etc etc before they even know how their own body works or

how to properly feed themselves, what it takes to be healthy and happy and interact correctly with the community. then we wonder why we are unhappy and need to medicate ourselves all the time to remain enthused. we don't really know ourselves or each other or anything really, about the world around us. anything that really matters on a grand scale, or to each other, not really. you know how good that feels? when your doing things that help the world 100%, 100% of the time and your still having as much fun or more then you currently are while doing it. your full of eternal knowledge and understanding about yourself and everyone is aware

of self and other and how everything fits together. it is amazing. right now we are sold the lie that this is not possible, that we must just get what we can and join the hordes and shut the fuck up.

..and so it continues, the disease spreads. the microcosm is the macrocosm. just as cancers can spread in our bodies, so to dose it spread in the world. the world is acid and it must become alkaline or

it will surly die. that is why all this matters, what i am taking about. time management. we can't just dream our lives away doing what we please anymore, we must all join together and become part of

the revolution. even spouting off like i am right now is part of it. do what you can, but be truly honest with yourself.

look at the world around us, it is shite. dose anyone care for the repercussions of their actions anymore? its a fucking free-for-all and most people are looking to other humans who suffer

from the same disease for their solutions. i.e. politics

what you said about being a decent person without a spiritual sense is all well and good. i would say, obviously, that it is better then being destructive in ones life without spiritual perspective.

however, the point i touched on before is the convenience factor and the lack of an exact code to follow. all to often people conveniently invent their own way around the tuff spots when they

are faced with an advanced moral challenge and ride right over the little ones. i'm not saying that people don't do this even when they know the rules of the game but at least they are

processing through that code instead of writing their own. the code is there for a reason, it has a greater purpose and if we write our own it defeats that purpose and extends our suffering,

on a personal level and the masses.

there has alway been a conflict between the law and the wantings of human beings to express themselves any way they please. the law is to keep us safe from ourselves, to understand

ourselves without being the masters of ourselves (which is very dangerous) like a dictator who invents his own rules. if we indulge in the world only or for the most part then all we see is

the world, it blinds us and we lose sight of our spiritual law. before long we become sick or make someone else sick possibly through influencing them to do the same things we have done.

this happens all the time. some of us find a way back and learn the law (the code) again, many do not.

everything we do has an effect on something else. if we are constantly doing things that are beautiful but have no tangible end result to help steward the world around us and help it

stay healthy then these are meaningless, self-indulgent things. look at the world around us, we see it everywhere. ikea, banks, shite jobs that lead people to no where but provide

them with ample sums. this is why we need the code. no one should be able to do this. there should not be the haves that can dream their lives away buying in the shops and doing aimless

blah while others struggle to eat. now, i am not without flaw, i am in this the same as we all are, there are some thing i love to experience in the world but if i'm honest with myself then i admit the truth. i admit that my lust has a price. it costs me, it will effect the people around me and the world at large. this is already happening all around us.

it's simple time management. the people of the world are using x percentage of their collective time for themselves and x for the the greater good. we are doing it right now, right this second we are under a spell. the first step is to see it and then who knows what is possible from there.

i'm in know way passing judgment here on anyone, only passing on information and observation.

were you being serious when you said that stuff about 'heart parts'?

  On 12/15/2012 at 5:24 AM, MisterE said:

were you being serious when you said that stuff about 'heart parts'?

lol I think he totally was