thoughts on reel to reel recordings

so idea:

hardware---->reel to reel----->computer

would music sound better with the second step or should i just record to computer

i had a reel to reel once, and though it was a pain in the ass a bit it was enjoyable playing with tape

OR hardware ---> tape cassette ---> computer.

i don't see the benefits of doing it in that order. wouldn't recording from the computer to tape produce the same results?

well hardware has a nicer sound quality than computers...

yeah i was taking the hardware into account there.

hardware ---> computer --> tape

  On 1/2/2013 at 9:09 AM, Mcdergbit said:

yeah i was taking the hardware into account there.

 

hardware ---> computer --> tape

but then to archive onto computer i'd have to , hardware--->computer---->tape---->computer

The cliche about computers sounding bad and (large-format) tape sounding good is (imho) largely correct.

BUT

Not for the commonly-cited reasons.

Most people leave alot of vibe and mixing decisions up to their DAW/hardware/tape/sampler/etc.

(e.g. music made in DAW's tends to have way too much high-end)

If you have the chance to hit R2R before your computer, do it!

yeah.. what about cassette tape ??

  On 1/2/2013 at 9:19 AM, yek said:

yeah.. what about cassette tape ??

Cassette has hella vibe. However, it loves to sound like shit, so you have to convince it not to.

It helps if you're just DI-ing shit.

If you're mic'ing shit then it'd be nice to have good mics, good mic technique, good preamps, etc.

word, all have a play with my cassette recorder. thanks all

as far as using tape to color the sound of hardware instruments, imo the whole point would be to get anywhere from slight to extreme distortion straight to tape. If you go into the computer first you'd almost be defeating the purpose of coloring the sound in this way. Also multi-track recording onto reel to reel tape is going to sound 'warmer' than recording digitally into the computer using multitrack.

Just remember that your workflow can be every bit as important as the sound itself. Personally, I'd feel too constrained if I had a finite amount of tracks to play with, and tape synchronisation (with or without a DAW in the equation too) would be too much hassle for me, but it's a personal preference. Do what feels right, but don't sacrifice your style for a tradeoff.

seems a bit superficial and masturbatory or fetishistic, not that those are bad qualities but i would put recording to tape for "phat warm color" like getting some small wrinkles from around your eyes removed, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:39 AM, RadarJammer said:

, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

but when making music the only thing that should matter is that you care about what it's sounding like, and not giving a fuck what it would sound like to anyone else...

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:55 AM, oscillik said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:39 AM, RadarJammer said:

, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

but when making music the only thing that should matter is that you care about what it's sounding like, and not giving a fuck what it would sound like to anyone else...

if reel to reel was free gear i wouldn't have said anything but it is a real investment so it could be nice to have a critical second thought about it

It'll make your music 31% more lush and 68& more analogue sounding. Which is very important.

atr magnetics

do want

  On 1/2/2013 at 11:07 AM, RadarJammer said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:55 AM, oscillik said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:39 AM, RadarJammer said:

, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

but when making music the only thing that should matter is that you care about what it's sounding like, and not giving a fuck what it would sound like to anyone else...

 

if reel to reel was free gear i wouldn't have said anything but it is a real investment so it could be nice to have a critical second thought about it

I don't understand your point.

A synthesizer is a real investment as opposed to using softsynths. There is still merit to using a synthesizer you can touch and interact with physically, over using a softsynth (and thats if both the softsynth and the actual synth both sound exactly the same and have exactly the same features).

The difference in sound between a tape recording and a digital recording is not subjective. it is objective. if you can't tell the difference, then that's your issue.

  On 1/2/2013 at 12:01 PM, oscillik said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 11:07 AM, RadarJammer said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:55 AM, oscillik said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:39 AM, RadarJammer said:

, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

but when making music the only thing that should matter is that you care about what it's sounding like, and not giving a fuck what it would sound like to anyone else...

 

if reel to reel was free gear i wouldn't have said anything but it is a real investment so it could be nice to have a critical second thought about it

I don't understand your point.

 

A synthesizer is a real investment as opposed to using softsynths. There is still merit to using a synthesizer you can touch and interact with physically, over using a softsynth (and thats if both the softsynth and the actual synth both sound exactly the same and have exactly the same features).

 

The difference in sound between a tape recording and a digital recording is not subjective. it is objective. if you can't tell the difference, then that's your issue.

a synth is a thing you can gig with or noodle with and be an integral part of the workflow in different ways so i wouldn't compare to something that is only really for adding a bit of fairy dust at the end of the line

i could probably tell the difference but i don't think it would ever give me a boner

i think notions of "phat" and "warm" are kind of bogus so the point was that i think reel to reel freshening is like snake oil for the confused musician trying to find some ritual to get obsessed with

  On 1/2/2013 at 12:16 PM, RadarJammer said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 12:01 PM, oscillik said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 11:07 AM, RadarJammer said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:55 AM, oscillik said:

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:39 AM, RadarJammer said:

, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

but when making music the only thing that should matter is that you care about what it's sounding like, and not giving a fuck what it would sound like to anyone else...

 

if reel to reel was free gear i wouldn't have said anything but it is a real investment so it could be nice to have a critical second thought about it

I don't understand your point.

 

A synthesizer is a real investment as opposed to using softsynths. There is still merit to using a synthesizer you can touch and interact with physically, over using a softsynth (and thats if both the softsynth and the actual synth both sound exactly the same and have exactly the same features).

 

The difference in sound between a tape recording and a digital recording is not subjective. it is objective. if you can't tell the difference, then that's your issue.

 

a synth is a thing you can gig with or noodle with and be an integral part of the workflow in different ways so i wouldn't compare to something that is only really for adding a bit of fairy dust at the end of the line

 

i could probably tell the difference but i don't think it would ever give me a boner

i think notions of "phat" and "warm" are kind of bogus so the point was that i think reel to reel freshening is like snake oil for the confused musician trying to find some ritual to get obsessed with

then you misunderstand music, and the process that any musician gets involved in with creating their own art.

it is for the musician to decide whether the instruments and equipment used are of benefit or detriment to the end result.

the point I'm trying to get at is that music making isn't necessarily about the tangible sound that is garnered from using one piece of equipment other another. this is why a musician may use a certain Stratocaster guitar that was bought for them by an ex girlfriend who broke their heart, and playing with that particular guitar brings out a certain angst that comes across in his playing, where if he were to play with any off-the-shelf guitar (even the next Stratocaster off the line after his 'special' one) it wouldn't sound the same.

I can feel this is going to be fun.

*grabs chair*

  On 1/2/2013 at 9:46 AM, yek said:

word, all have a play with my cassette recorder. thanks all

Best tape decks are 3 heads - most are 2 heads, especially dual decks which are more common in general. 3 Head designs allow separate monitoring, recording, and playback so in general each tape head is better at it's job than a two-head, with uses the same heads for multiple tasks. Also, look into demagnetizing and cleaning your deck to maximize performance. You can buy a tape demagnitizer like this for $15 or so on amazon or ebay. I have some 2 heads though - one with pitch control to boot. You could probably have fun playing around with dubbing back and forth for changes in quality. Or doing this with a cassette adapter.

Tapeheads.net is a good forum to look up recommended decks for recording and you can look up vintage decks here too. Nakamichi is considered the cream of the crop BUT I would personally stick with a different brand for recording. Apparently Nakamichi recordings sound less impressive on other decks because that manufacturer has unique electronic parts. Onkyo, JVC, Denon, Sony, Akai, Teac, are some of the best, late 70s - early 90s is ideal. I don't know much about reel to reel though this is a good forum.

The cassette tape type you use matters as well, depending on what you want to do. Type I, which is the most common blank tape available new or old, is not going to capture high frequency audio as well. Likewise I've heard it's great for bass and what I gather if you're trying to record noticeable tape distortion or a more "lo-fi" sound go with Type I OR you can go to even more extremes by purposely damaging tape or using old reel-to-reel tape. Most independent labels press releases on Type I anyway. Tape wobble, wow and flutter, the "washed out" sound of tape, etc is all from degrading or low-quality tape reels and cassettes. Tape distortion - make sure it's recording in the red and maxed out (+5 db or more)

Type II, and Type IV are better for the quality recording, more akin to higher quality of a good reel-to-reel. You can buy Type II new as well, it's often marketed as "studio quality" or "CD quality." (Type IV is far rarer and more expensive, I'd say Type II is better overall. I've even see some tape fanatics say IV is overrated because it's ironically less "warm" and hissy. Also it's harder to erase and record over.)

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:22 AM, Awepittance said:

as far as using tape to color the sound of hardware instruments, imo the whole point would be to get anywhere from slight to extreme distortion straight to tape. If you go into the computer first you'd almost be defeating the purpose of coloring the sound in this way. Also multi-track recording onto reel to reel tape is going to sound 'warmer' than recording digitally into the computer using multitrack.

^Good point. I will say that you can record digitally and/or use digital samples then record them back onto tape and/or bounce between analog and digital in general with noticeable effects, especially over the top tape distortion. I know brainfeeder/leaving records producer Matthewdavid does that a lot. Really depends on what you're goals are.

To sum up:

For warmer sound overall, especially for hardware recording - hardware--->tape ---> (for digital copy back into DAW I'd go as lossless as possible 96hz/24bit)

For noticeable effects/distortion/fidelity - DAW--->tape--->DAW and overall with the tapes/tape recorder of your choice

most of my experiments with recording on cassette or tape in general have always been with using an analog mixer to mix my stuff together first. You can switch back and forth but i always feel like I get the most desirable results from just jamming or composing straight to tape in those situations

  On 1/2/2013 at 5:31 PM, Awepittance said:

most of my experiments with recording on cassette or tape in general have always been with using an analog mixer to mix my stuff together first. You can switch back and forth but i always feel like I get the most desirable results from just jamming or composing straight to tape in those situations

Considering that seems to be what Yek's after that's the best advice imo

I love recording to tape, not so much for recording-based reasons but creative reasons. I find that I can get pleasing results far more quickly when I'm working with tape and DON'T have the ability to play with the recordings so much in post-production than I do when recording to a DAW. I'm releasing an album with some examples of this soon...

  On 1/2/2013 at 10:39 AM, RadarJammer said:

seems a bit superficial and masturbatory or fetishistic, not that those are bad qualities but i would put recording to tape for "phat warm color" like getting some small wrinkles from around your eyes removed, nobody is really gonna notice or care but you.

Can You hear a difference between Music is Rotted One Note and Just a Souvenir?

Oh you can? Good, because that is the difference we're talking about.