thoughts on reel to reel recordings

Haha, that makes sense, thanks!

  Quote

I've uttered this before, likely will again. At the sub $1k level the best you can do is get a two track tape machine and an alignment tape. Learn to align the different frequencies and how bias affects the frequency response. And then listen. How does the master tape sound? Can you make it better by manipulating the way the signal is hitting the tape? Can you make it better by altering the output gain of the multitrack mixed program? You can try. and ...iterate the listening step. Does it sound better and can you make it better still by pushing the tape further in that direction, or does it sound worse. Try backing off the master output level of the multitrack program, better? Go back to a previous alignment/output settings. It ain't easy or necessarily as intuitive as turning a knob on a compressor, but it ain't rocket science - hell, I learned it so can you. And, In terms of value for dollar - shoot gosh darn! what a difference between that and a $500 stereo single band circuit board full of DIP op amps!

Tape saturation and bias >= mastering compression using sub-mastering quality gear

 

++ tons more fun

http://analogue-heaven.1065350.n5.nabble.com/Affordable-master-bus-compressor-td97463.html

i imagine Thriller is what idm would sound like with a great studio recorded on mutlitrack edited tape

  On 1/4/2013 at 10:52 AM, ZoeB said:

  On 1/4/2013 at 10:18 AM, LimpyLoo said:

  On 1/4/2013 at 9:44 AM, kinski said:

not too long ago someone here made a good point on making masters on vhs (using a vcr) for extra saturation. i liked that. reel to reel or tape for any kind of electronic music is a bitch to synch from scratch. but then again, why go the easy way? if you master analog precision nothing's going to stop you, ever. if i had the resources i would do it.

 

I don't understand all this talk about sync problems.

 

Obviously it's not a concern with multitrack recorders, nor with dubbing down a mix to 2-track tape (e.g. stereo vhs).

 

So why are people bringing it up?

 

I haven't used a tape based multitrack recorder, but reading Multichannel Recording for Electronic Music, it sounds like in order to lay down more than one channel of music to be played by a sequencer rather than live, you first need to record the tape sync signal, so there goes your first channel right there. I also can't help but notice how the play and record heads have to physically be separate, in slightly different locations, so I can only imagine if or how that's compensated for in some way. (I guess if you don't listen to the already recorded music, it's OK; your synth listens to the clock pulses, and even if there's a slight delay, it should be consistent for everything you subsequently record, which is great until you physically run out of channels and have to mix down.) Analogue recording generally sounds like a big mess, trying to do something a bit more ambitious than it's well equipped for.

 

Unless we're talking about recording all the channels at once, but then again, if you can do that, I'm not entirely sure if you'd be multitracking in the first place.

 

As I say, I've never actually used a multitrack tape recorder, so I'm sure someone more experienced can put my mind at rest on some of these possible issues, but from what I've read in that book and several Wendy Carlos interviews, I'm glad I can go to work without having to bring my namesake razor blade! Sliding along visible waveforms in a DAW is much easier than I imagine splicing tape to be, especially as the different channels aren't physically stuck together.

i think reel to reels use a thing called sel-sync. so the record head can be used as play back heads so that new signals can be recorded on other tracks in perfect sync with the existing tracks. the quality of playback is shitty but its just to hear the track for recording live

i can't get this right because of this horrible hiss. it clears up if i totally crank the recording volume to ten but then everything is way too distorted.

  On 1/5/2013 at 4:53 AM, marf said:

i think reel to reels use a thing called sel-sync. so the record head can be used as play back heads so that new signals can be recorded on other tracks in perfect sync with the existing tracks. the quality of playback is shitty but its just to hear the track for recording live

Thank you! This answers the question I didn't know how to ask. :) Curiously, that's sort of almost comparable to how digital soundcards used to work, having a low-fi playback mode you could use when recording in high-fi.

Correct about sync. The sync "head" is actually the record head switched into a playback circuit. And yes it does sound crappy compared to the playback head because the record and play heads are engineered differently. I REALLY need to dig out my Audio Eng. notes so I can give details argh.

BTW anyone with a tape machine needs some IPA (isopropyl alcohol) and a ton of cotton buds to clean the heads. This is really important. That tape machine you thought sounded shit may just need a clean. Or it may need to be lined up properly (not too difficult if you've got a decent oscillator/function generator and an oscilloscope).

  On 1/5/2013 at 7:39 PM, futureimage said:

BTW anyone with a tape machine needs some IPA (isopropyl alcohol) and a ton of cotton buds to clean the heads. This is really important. That tape machine you thought sounded shit may just need a clean. Or it may need to be lined up properly (not too difficult if you've got a decent oscillator/function generator and an oscilloscope).

Q-tips are good too. With the IPA make sure it's 91% (easy to find), or 99% which I've seen at bigger electronic stores.

  On 1/5/2013 at 5:15 AM, yek said:

i can't get this right because of this horrible hiss. it clears up if i totally crank the recording volume to ten but then everything is way too distorted.

Try an external preamp.

Yup a nice preamp will probably be needed to warm up just a tad, it's all matter of preference but I tend to try and boost the signals until there is a bit of distortion coming through, but this won't work very well if you compress your tracks before.

So yeah, higher dynamic range is kinda key to be able to use this technique well...

  LimpyLoo said:

And if one wanted the full extent of pre-Geogaddi haziness, then you are all but legally required to dub down to either cassette or VHS (on "long-play," obv).

-LL

It gave it a real claustrophobic dark feel that I didn't foresee (in fact probably too much so, I rarely can sit though the album from start to end)

  On 1/7/2013 at 2:51 PM, mcbpete said:

  LimpyLoo said:

And if one wanted the full extent of pre-Geogaddi haziness, then you are all but legally required to dub down to either cassette or VHS (on "long-play," obv).

-LL

Yeah the latter is exactly what I did for this album: http://www.ilovecubus.co.uk/v2/downloads/small-mercies

It gave it a real claustrophobic dark feel that I didn't foresee (in fact probably too much so, I rarely can sit though the album from start to end)

It can help to render your tracks at a higher sample rate before doing that, unless of course you`re using hardware direct to tape. But yeah, with a higher sample rate you`ll keep more of the highs (the higher the sample rate, the more dynamic the highs can be, it`s really easy to see this by manually drawing a wave in different sample rates) which might get rid of what you`re talking about, though I`m not 100% sure what you mean...

  On 1/5/2013 at 1:48 PM, ZoeB said:

  On 1/5/2013 at 4:53 AM, marf said:

i think reel to reels use a thing called sel-sync. so the record head can be used as play back heads so that new signals can be recorded on other tracks in perfect sync with the existing tracks. the quality of playback is shitty but its just to hear the track for recording live

 

Thank you! This answers the question I didn't know how to ask. :) Curiously, that's sort of almost comparable to how digital soundcards used to work, having a low-fi playback mode you could use when recording in high-fi.

No problem Zoe. Its all in that book i sent you. took me a year but i read it cover to cover. its wonderful in that its very simple. I think information is often clouded by unclear thoughts or flowery language. Sound on sound has good tutorials, but he really gets complicated fast. I guess its the next step after the Allen Strange book.

  On 1/8/2013 at 8:42 PM, marf said:

No problem Zoe. Its all in that book i sent you. took me a year but i read it cover to cover. its wonderful in that its very simple. I think information is often clouded by unclear thoughts or flowery language. Sound on sound has good tutorials, but he really gets complicated fast. I guess its the next step after the Allen Strange book.

Did I ever show you those Roland books I got? :D

I've got something even more interesting on the go, all the back issues of Electronotes. I'm just working out the details with the owner of the newsletter and with someone who's nice enough to look after the tangible issues and scan them in. I refuse to let these historic guides be lost to future generations.

  On 1/8/2013 at 11:04 PM, ZoeB said:

  On 1/8/2013 at 8:42 PM, marf said:

No problem Zoe. Its all in that book i sent you. took me a year but i read it cover to cover. its wonderful in that its very simple. I think information is often clouded by unclear thoughts or flowery language. Sound on sound has good tutorials, but he really gets complicated fast. I guess its the next step after the Allen Strange book.

 

Did I ever show you those Roland books I got? :D

 

I've got something even more interesting on the go, all the back issues of Electronotes. I'm just working out the details with the owner of the newsletter and with someone who's nice enough to look after the tangible issues and scan them in. I refuse to let these historic guides be lost to future generations.

Oh damn those books are super sexy.

omg those look dope as fuck

roland used to be cool. /obvious

Hey guys. I haven an issue with my reel to reel. Everything works fine on it except that it won't play. It will do everything else though. When I hit play it clicks and then does nothing. I have a theory it just needs oil and maintenance, but I wasn't sure if maybe I am missing something. Help?

Probably needs a new belt - what model is it? You can find most replacement belts on eBay. I had to do this fix and, although it was very messy due to some horrible lubricant/grease that Teac used to use on their rollers, it was pretty easy.

  On 1/8/2013 at 11:04 PM, ZoeB said:

Did I ever show you those Roland books I got? :D

 

I've got something even more interesting on the go, all the back issues of Electronotes. I'm just working out the details with the owner of the newsletter and with someone who's nice enough to look after the tangible issues and scan them in. I refuse to let these historic guides be lost to future generations.

very nice :-)

This might be hella spammy, but I thought it would be a good example of a not-very-well-aligned and not-very-well-cared-for reel to reel machine:

http://futureimagerecords.bandcamp.com/track/skiptreturn

The chords are distorted before tape, but I believe the squeeze on the kick drum comes from either the tape saturation or the Teac machine's pre-tape circuitry.

EDIT: Also old as hell tape, probably used time and time again.

  On 1/11/2013 at 11:32 AM, futureimage said:

http://futureimagerecords.bandcamp.com/track/skiptreturn

Reminds me a bit of Micronaut's Resistor. Nice dubby take on techno or house or whatever you kids call it.

reel to reels are great for delay. i believe they have the best fidelity of any delay. bbd have problems replicating low end and digital sounds digital.