Skeuomorphism

  On 2/6/2013 at 12:54 AM, iep said:

 

  On 2/5/2013 at 11:53 PM, Djeroek said:

 

  Quote

Djeroek i'm building with binaural HRTFs now, and

have been playing with different kind of reverberation for some time

(gathered a big stash of algorithms), + yer everyday spectral

scrambling, perhaps :sup: i'm trying to put something together in VST

vorm,, cool would be to have a openGL interface with visual

representation of what the HRTFs and reverb do spatially.

 

Nice! Figured you'd dive in spatial matter, maybe start out with a simple slider gui before getting over ambitious on visual candy? The few hrtf based vst I've seen let you position speakers around a dummy head, what are you thinking about?

 

true.dat , i'm not using ANY gui for my dlls now (so it defaults to the VST host, like simple sliders in cubase, but that gets unmanagable fast), only trying out the different libraries/toolkits.

i'm doing this kinda phaser-type thing where each delay line is convolved with a different hrtf. the delay lines are modulated with sines like a regular phaser but i want to have different waveshapes for that, maybe user-specified/imported/drawn. i have no way to load different hrtfs while the plugin is running, they are hardcoded, but that should chnge too. having the hrtf change dynamically, realtime, thru some sort of 3D listener/source interface like you mention is probably not in the cards; i've seen software that does that, 3d-rendered virtual-space-interfaces are pretty skeumorph.

headassplodes , do you have some sound-clips on how this sounds right now?

Whatever you end up with, make sure you put the dry/wet controlls as one of the first parameters to be found in an automation list, also less is more when it comes to the amount of parameters imo. Throughout my plugin´ years :) , I´ve start to ditch the quadrillion options vst´s, something like ohmboys for delay has a huge list, for freebies like tal/dub with only a few parameters for better overview quick automating in Renoise.

  On 2/6/2013 at 12:24 PM, iep said:

 

  On 2/6/2013 at 3:06 AM, RadarJammer said:

you might wanna check this project out http://synthmaker.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11616 could be worth downloading the synthmaker demo to poke around. its quite effective

 

and here is a HRTF reverb project in reaktor http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=5320

 

"synthmaker" that's cool software, i think it is called "FlowStone" now. it's fast, like synthedit, and there's lot of gui options. not as powerful as max or supercollider but still a cool sketch-tool. not using any middleware now tho, i'm coding in c++, and also i've been writing in FAUST which is pretty fkin awesome for a higher-level language.

 

  On 2/6/2013 at 10:58 AM, Babar said:

>hey. here is an interesting article about gui in general. Thought it would be on-topic

http://www.nngroup.com/articles/anti-mac-interface/

 

 

 

kewl, dates from 1996 though

 

  On 2/6/2013 at 8:58 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Wouldn't it make sense for a musicians software to resemble their hardware?

 

Wouldn't it make sense for musicians hardware to resemble their software?

 

I didn't mean check out synthmaker, I mean't check out the synthmaker patch posted in that thread BTW

  On 2/7/2013 at 9:18 PM, Djeroek said:

 

  On 2/6/2013 at 12:54 AM, iep said:

 

  On 2/5/2013 at 11:53 PM, Djeroek said:

 

  Quote

Djeroek i'm building with binaural HRTFs now, and

have been playing with different kind of reverberation for some time

(gathered a big stash of algorithms), + yer everyday spectral

scrambling, perhaps :sup: i'm trying to put something together in VST

vorm,, cool would be to have a openGL interface with visual

representation of what the HRTFs and reverb do spatially.

 

Nice! Figured you'd dive in spatial matter, maybe start out with a simple slider gui before getting over ambitious on visual candy? The few hrtf based vst I've seen let you position speakers around a dummy head, what are you thinking about?

 

true.dat , i'm not using ANY gui for my dlls now (so it defaults to the VST host, like simple sliders in cubase, but that gets unmanagable fast), only trying out the different libraries/toolkits.

i'm doing this kinda phaser-type thing where each delay line is convolved with a different hrtf. the delay lines are modulated with sines like a regular phaser but i want to have different waveshapes for that, maybe user-specified/imported/drawn. i have no way to load different hrtfs while the plugin is running, they are hardcoded, but that should chnge too. having the hrtf change dynamically, realtime, thru some sort of 3D listener/source interface like you mention is probably not in the cards; i've seen software that does that, 3d-rendered virtual-space-interfaces are pretty skeumorph.

 

headassplodes , do you have some sound-clips on how this sounds right now?

 

Whatever you end up with, make sure you put the dry/wet controlls as one of the first parameters to be found in an automation list, also less is more when it comes to the amount of parameters imo. Throughout my plugin´ years :) , I´ve start to ditch the quadrillion options vst´s, something like ohmboys for delay has a huge list, for freebies like tal/dub with only a few parameters for better overview quick automating in Renoise.

here is a little bit of synth sent thru multi-hrtf-phasing

quadrillion option vsts are the best...the ones with the sensible menu lay-outs. tabbed/layered windows are key. some plugs have right-click-menus to have teh user change behavior of the control. the "JUCE" library has some interesting stuff like the option of setting a slider to 'velocity sensitive' to respond differently to mouse movements, some plugs (valhallaDSP) use this and it's neat. heat.

plugexpert. reveal me, what yer top-3 of plugin GUIs looks like! pls.

RadarJammer, thanks--i've used (the final version of) that plugin when i dl'ed it from this year's KVR comp, Space360 it's called now. i had no idea it was synthmaker, i'lll check out the source code, v. kewl. thx!

i get the criticisms levied at the sort of plugs that try to LOOK like old 'vintage' equipment, and it is obviously a psychology thing. but that brings us to the point/fact that should be mentioned, which is that this trend wouldn't be so prevalent if people didn't lap it up. if you are a software company, and you are doing a polymoog vsti, when it comes time to talk to your gui guy about what to do, lets narrow down all of your options to two possible routes:

a)tell him/her to make a gui that looks like a polymoog. make lots of money.

b)tell them to just make a bunch of sliders. make no money.

ok now- which of those options would you go with?

here's another point- i don't think it's really comprehensive to just look at the skeuomorphism with the GUI itself. in other words, i don't think you can separate the gui LOOKING like old hardware, from the vst/vsti SOUNDING like old hardware. the two things are melded together, at least they should be, when it comes to debating whether one or the other is a silly thing to do. some people would say that having plugs (and sweep's comment seemed to kind of touch on this) just trying to sound like the old hardware is or is getting to be kind of silly. i'm not saying where i stand in this, but i'm just saying that it seems odd to me to only focus on the gui itself, and say that it's bad or whatever for that to try to simulate an old thing, but the actual intent of the vst/vsti itself, which is to simulate the sound of an old thing, gets a free pass.

why would one be ok but the other not? they should both be talked about together, in my opinion, when being critical of either.

  On 2/7/2013 at 11:37 PM, iep said:

here is a little bit of synth sent thru multi-hrtf-phasing

--klik--- after 10-15 seconds i start to crank up the wet level and take out the dry.

nice subtle spatial shift, would like to hear a demo on short spiky transients! Bet this convolving business if cpu intensive?

  Quote

plugexpert. reveal me, what yer top-3 of plugin GUIs looks like! pls.

In Renoise I hardly open gui's as you can easier change, automate parameters through a dropdown list of sliders, right mouse click-drag a slider for immediate recording. You can't press record and twist a knob in the gui for the same effect. That said, I like these:

NSFW

  On 2/7/2013 at 11:37 PM, iep said:

plugexpert. reveal me, what yer top-3 of plugin GUIs looks like! pls.

this is a good mix between straight logical functionality and aesthetic, it kind of seems retro without looking like its trying to be, almost perfect IMO

this is like a hybrid, almost skeumorphic but tastefully trying not to go there

not too shabby

That blue thing is really flat. I would feel like I'm making music on a piece of paper.

  On 2/7/2013 at 11:37 PM, iep said:

reveal me, what yer top-3 of plugin GUIs looks like! pls.

No real favorites, generally I prefer smaller to huge, minimal sparse to visual candy gui's, but anything needs getting used to. While windows 95 looking, I like the anarchy effects, which are now free to dl. They give somewhat of a visual representation on whats happening, spiral animation in corkscrew for example:

Or the animated interpolation wobbling in spectral autopan:

Get the complete pack here:

http://anarchysoundsoftware.co.uk/anarchysoundsoftware/?page_id=7

  On 2/2/2013 at 4:07 PM, iep said:

i blame Reason's success:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Djeroek, i'm a big fan of those AnarchyEffects plugs, but like i was getting at earlier, they aren't emulating either a specific analog piece of equipment, or even a general type of typically analog effect. so for them to have that type of gui, it makes perfect sense. if they were emulations of a Pultec equalizer, then wouldn't it maybe be a little excusable if the controls, color scheme, and overall gui was a little like a pultec?