tr-808 sales!!!

hello there

i have noticed that the tr-808 has gone up way in price as much as the tb-303

why the fuck is this?

i mean i remeber they were like $150 a year ago

have wankers caught on that they can make a grand off something that should be shared

i was looking to a buy a tr-808 and i go on ebay and they $1000 more than i thought i could buy one for.

disscuss this outrage

  Mr. Magoo said:

i mean i remeber they were like $150 a year ago

i'd heavily dispute this.

a good/reasonable condition 808 hasn't been £100/$150 in all the time I've ever paid attention. If ever.

Exactly I totally agree with Barrichello. I read that and thought wtf! To me its now £500 down the drain. :laughing:

there was a 909 that went for 30 bucks on craigslist 2/3 weeks ago

Tr-808 Are probally the best "expensive" drum machine ever made.

i think an 808 is worth every penny.

just as a Tb-303 is... :ermm:

buy a tr-606 before they go for crazy prices, they have the 808 Snare and the hi hats are nealry the same as is the kick... and there battry powered!

  chris moss acid said:

Tr-808 Are probally the best "expensive" drum machine ever made.

It was only 1000 bucks and that's quite cheap when you compare it to like, a LM-1 (those went for 5000 bucks).

  man with no name said:

  chris moss acid said:

Tr-808 Are probally the best "expensive" drum machine ever made.

It was only 1000 bucks and that's quite cheap when you compare it to like, a LM-1 (those went for 5000 bucks).

yeah safe,

but its the Drum machine which i think will cost me the most..

considering i got my 303 for a pretty sweet £600 playing 500 - 800 for a 808/909 is gonna be tough but oh so beautiful.

right now im trying to get hold hold of a 101.

To me I couldn't really care less what equipment people have these days as long as they make fat tunes. That said I do like checking out people's studios. I'd buy an 808 or 909 for possibly £30 although that's never likely to happen unless someone is a total idiot. At £30 it'd be cool to have in a studio but for any other price to me its money pissed down the drain. Mind u I might just buy it and then sell it on for a stonking great profit! :laughing:

A good example is I'm listening to Cybotron's 'Enter' right now and sure if I wanted the totally authetic analogue sound to create some oldskool shit like this then I could spent £2k+ old the old synths and drum machines but then equally I just have to have an up to date pc and controller for £300/400. Its not hard to figure out what to do. Hell if I pushed my self I could probably do it on my old piece of junk pc i got now.

  Promo said:

I'd buy an 808 or 909 for possibly £30 although that's never likely to happen unless someone is a total idiot.

we can only hope that there are more idiots like this

  Yggdrasil said:

i agree with promo. recently sold all of my old drum machines, since they just aren't necessary anymore. a good soft drum machine can mimic 808's, 909's, 303's and so on without an easily noticable* difference.

 

808's and big chunks of hardware are mostly for collectors these days, and people like chris who want to put on a good old school acid show.

 

nothing but respect for those guys, but i'd say, unless you belong to the collector's or performer's category, just grab a good virtual drum machine and save money, studio space and precious power outlets.

 

* there are some people who can tell the difference, but it's so miniscule as to be virtually rendered a moot point, especially when it's just one component of a complete mix with lots of other elements.

Ouch!

I can only speak from personal experience, as someone who's owned a 303 and an 808, but not a day goes by that I don't kick myself (hard) for doing what you just suggested

s/h prices are not just fashion statements - it's because there are no (even half) decent alternatives available to producers and these tools have never stopped being relevant

Just this week, I was co-engineering a dnb album for this (prty well known) Japanese producer - again, I've just realised how much I shouldn't have got rid of the 808... The 808's probably the most used studio tool in hiphop & dnb to add weight and definition to drum sounds... You don't hear it because of the way it's mixed in and it disguises the sound

...the problem is things like Waldorf Attack, Drummatic and u-Tonic sound like shit - there's no other word to describe them - no tone, no definition, awkward to work with - VA's and things like Reaktor sound way too weedy and thin, and don't have the uppermid range presense or bite you need - and samples are way too inflexible

What I'm having to do is get a ruler up to the screen to measure pitch curves in the original bassdrums - then go into soundforge and run repeated pitch envelopes on 808 samples so i can add weight to the breaks without unwanted phasing

With an 808 I could just adjust the decay and pitch, and nail it in a half a minute - last night I spent about 3 hours trying to get the right pitch curve on a single sample

Sure, most ppl aren't knowledgable enough to tell you whether it's a real 808 or a sample or a VA - but anyone can notice the cumulative effects of a mix done with the right tools, vs, done with the wrong tools... I could've just used fairly decent sounding Reaktor or Moog Modular bassdrums on this mix (actually, Soundforge is better for bassdrums than either of them), but then I would end up with something which sounds more akin to something on mp3.com - the kind of sound most ppl with a copy of floops and a few plug-ins can achieve... but who wants to pay for that?

When you think about how simple and effective the 808 and 909 are, it beggars belief that there's not a single good quality device out there which can supply decent sinewaves bass drums and noise snares effectively

You can get a TR-606 modded so it's virtually an 808

But still, we're talking about pocket money here - in the UK, £500 can be a month's rent down the toilet - that's before electricity bills, gas, phone, food, etc... A half-decent EQ or compressor will set you back £2k... PC's are ridiculously expensive when you consider how often you need to upgrade and how they've got no resale value

When you emulate a computer game on a pc, theres not much difference, but when you emulate analogue synths on a PC, theres a big difference. u can say o music is subjective, but no daddy, because there is a big difference which is real.

drum machines are just toys for having a laugh and making music, theyre not a great instrument of all time like a nice electric guitar.

303 and 808 are not really a waste of money, because they keep their value, u have to remember that. u can always sell them on again for nearly the same price. u just need to have spare money that you dont need to spend. u can buy a 303 and 808 make all your fat tunes, then sell them again, it wont cost u much different if u are careful.

unlike softsynths and digital synths which are the real waste of money. even if a 808 emulator costs 100 dollars, it wont sound nearly the same, it wont come close, you are joking if you say it is the same. you are a little clown joker in the circus. you area little non expert and you never used it before and your face has a tattoo saying joker on it. and guess what daddy? whoever uses softsynthesizer, will you sell that in 5 years for 100 dollars? no you cant even give it away. "oh how do u know that!!1 u got a crystal ball u fucker???" yes i have u joker, my crystal ball says softsynths are a huge waste of money and they dont sound like what they are copying, i hope if u are that stupid that vintagesynth.com rapes your face and steals all your money from stupid adverts if you are that foolish to belive marketing bullcrap

303 and 808 can make a BEEFY sound, but remember that they are not easy to program like some software. u ever tried programmign a track on an 808? there is no step track programming. u have to push the button of the bar u want while the song is playing

if u fuck up one bar in a 200 bar song, u have to start over again FUCK THAT JACK!!!!!!! thats why i use midi. fuck u purist, fuck u, my 808 is MIDIied. fucking purist, go fuck off to softsynthland.

303 the buttons are mank!!! it is also awkward to program. mainly because u type 1 note in, then it goes in twice for no reason because the switches are mank. dont bother the hype of listening to analord, when u use a 303 it is mank programming. that is why ceephax fanboyism happens. who else can program bach on a 303? make it sound good? 303 programming is mank!! but unlike the 808, midi on a 303 is lame, listen to the purists here. listen to grant. if u cant prograqm your 303 after 5 years, sell it. it is just not the machine for you.

10p to you if you actually read all that

The 606 snare is nothing like the 808 snare.

Tr 606,

DONT LISTEN TO THE HYPE. THIS IS A PUNY DRUM MACHINE. IT IS PUNY.

This is a little weasel of a drum machine. The sounds are small, tiny, HONEY I SHRUNK THE DRUM MACHINE SOUND!

The bass drum is the most puny little poo poo plotch of a bass drum. U cant turn it down. if i remember right, its mainly about 100hz, which is too high for a bass drum, on the 808 it is much lower frequency normally, u can reach 50hz sub bass, which is BEEF. the 606 is not beef.

if you listen to ceephax, he uses a 606, but theres a secret method passed down from burma and mongolian munks. It is called distortion. u put distortion on the 606 signal, and tune it to your taste, and the frequencies spread out and fill so u get more beef, and it actually sounds good. listen to this sound on chris moss acid tunes also. but really if u make songs like this, u may get stuck in a "ceephax clone" rut so be careful there.

the 606 only gets beefy when distorted, not all distortion makes it sound good, if u rely on that way of a 606 u may get "ceephax clone"-itis

as for the programming, the track programming is actually quite good, HOW COME THIS WASNT IN TEH 808 ROLAND YOU FUCKING MASTERS you broken plaster bleedin g finger japanese mootherfoogs sentinel 5000 master jones 27 jones jones joens

the bar programming is ok because u can turn notes on and off.

606 = puny sound unless you copy ceephax, okish programming for machines of the day, even better programming that a 808!!!, better than 707 digital i think, not sure

ALL 606 ENTHUSIASTS, 606 sound will never be a 808, if you want an 808, buy the fucking 808, no pretend 606 is 808, that is a jokey joke

one more thing, the 606 hi hats are pretty good actually, the open and closedd i mean

they are worth the 606 money

And the 606 is nice for sequencing other drums.

you add tuning, snap, decay, etc... to a 606 (analogue solutions used to do it) and it's pretty much an 808

i've not heard a modded 606 myself, so i'd like to know how close they really do sound, but ppl say they're practically indistinguishable

303's and 808's are piss easy to program - no one programmes pattern changes, you step program it then select patterns manually when you mix down

there's no rule saying you have to mix down sat back in an armchair looking smug - most of those old mu-ziq & aphex twin (etc) tunes were sequenced in cubase in two or three columns - you'd manually select which bit you want looping at which time... mute and unmute parts, adjust channel faders, play in string lines...

you can bet analord was all mixed down and performed live

  The Moon said:

you add tuning, snap, decay, etc... to a 606 (analogue solutions used to do it) and it's pretty much an 808

 

i've not heard a modded 606 myself, so i'd like to know how close they really do sound, but ppl say they're practically indistinguishable

Who is saying that? He is a joker. It just ain't true, Dad. You haven't even heard it yourself, yet you are spreading rumours about it. Roland's are not transformers in disguise. One can not convert a 606 to an 808 and make the difference indistinguishable. That's bullshit!

  The Moon said:

303's and 808's are piss easy to program - no one programmes pattern changes, you step program it then select patterns manually when you mix down

I program pattern changes. I think a lot of people are used to programming pattern changes here. The 808 is a bitch to program. If you want to change patterns live, there is no problem, you are right. But the 808 is a bitch to program.

The 303's buttons don't respond to the way you touch them properly. Sometimes you push a button and the note won't enter. Sometimes you push a button and the note goes in two or three times. That is an annoying part of the programming interface. You and others may enjoy that faulty programming method, but it is not piss easy. You want to change patterns on a 303 and an 808 live while playing a couple of synthesizers? Ok, but don't say that it is piss easy

  The Moon said:

there's no rule saying you have to mix down sat back in an armchair looking smug

Really?

  The Moon said:

- most of those old mu-ziq & aphex twin (etc) tunes were sequenced in cubase in two or three columns - you'd manually select which bit you want looping at which time... mute and unmute parts, adjust channel faders, play in string lines...

When did they use 303's and 808's on public released music back then? Hardly ever, if at all. That's pretty simple too, if you want to program anything more complicated than a loop, the 303 and 808 are often a pain in the jacksy. Track programming on an 808 is still A PAIN IN THE ARSE.

THE LESS YOU PROGRAM, THE EASIER IT IS TO PROGRAM A 303 AND 808. NO SHIT SHERLOCK!!!

  The Moon said:

you can bet analord was all mixed down and performed live

No shit sherlock!!! Except for the complex 808 programming on some tracks and complex mc4 programming lol, yes we have all heard of drexciya thanks lol

i really doubt analords were mixed down live...

No shit Sherlock, lol, drexciya, gerald "god" donald, lol. LOL.

  kokoon said:

i really doubt analords were mixed down live...

why's that?

you won't find an arrange page on a Synthi 100

  Quote

The 303's buttons don't respond to the way you touch them properly. Sometimes you push a button and the note won't enter. Sometimes you push a button and the note goes in two or three times. That is an annoying part of the programming interface. You and others may enjoy that faulty programming method, but it is not piss easy. You want to change patterns on a 303 and an 808 live while playing a couple of synthesizers? Ok, but don't say that it is piss easy

sounds like you've had a go on a broken 303 or something - they're piss easy to program

808's piss easy too - dunno what you're on about

808's just sine waves and noise - same as a 606 - same parts - just less controls on it innit

  The Moon said:

  Yggdrasil said:

i agree with promo. recently sold all of my old drum machines, since they just aren't necessary anymore. a good soft drum machine can mimic 808's, 909's, 303's and so on without an easily noticable* difference.

 

808's and big chunks of hardware are mostly for collectors these days, and people like chris who want to put on a good old school acid show.

 

nothing but respect for those guys, but i'd say, unless you belong to the collector's or performer's category, just grab a good virtual drum machine and save money, studio space and precious power outlets.

 

* there are some people who can tell the difference, but it's so miniscule as to be virtually rendered a moot point, especially when it's just one component of a complete mix with lots of other elements.

 

Ouch!

 

I can only speak from personal experience, as someone who's owned a 303 and an 808, but not a day goes by that I don't kick myself (hard) for doing what you just suggested

 

s/h prices are not just fashion statements - it's because there are no (even half) decent alternatives available to producers and these tools have never stopped being relevant

 

Just this week, I was co-engineering a dnb album for this (prty well known) Japanese producer - again, I've just realised how much I shouldn't have got rid of the 808... The 808's probably the most used studio tool in hiphop & dnb to add weight and definition to drum sounds... You don't hear it because of the way it's mixed in and it disguises the sound

 

...the problem is things like Waldorf Attack, Drummatic and u-Tonic sound like shit - there's no other word to describe them - no tone, no definition, awkward to work with - VA's and things like Reaktor sound way too weedy and thin, and don't have the uppermid range presense or bite you need - and samples are way too inflexible

 

What I'm having to do is get a ruler up to the screen to measure pitch curves in the original bassdrums - then go into soundforge and run repeated pitch envelopes on 808 samples so i can add weight to the breaks without unwanted phasing

 

With an 808 I could just adjust the decay and pitch, and nail it in a half a minute - last night I spent about 3 hours trying to get the right pitch curve on a single sample

 

 

Sure, most ppl aren't knowledgable enough to tell you whether it's a real 808 or a sample or a VA - but anyone can notice the cumulative effects of a mix done with the right tools, vs, done with the wrong tools... I could've just used fairly decent sounding Reaktor or Moog Modular bassdrums on this mix (actually, Soundforge is better for bassdrums than either of them), but then I would end up with something which sounds more akin to something on mp3.com - the kind of sound most ppl with a copy of floops and a few plug-ins can achieve... but who wants to pay for that?

 

 

You can get a TR-606 modded so it's virtually an 808

 

But still, we're talking about pocket money here - in the UK, £500 can be a month's rent down the toilet - that's before electricity bills, gas, phone, food, etc... A half-decent EQ or compressor will set you back £2k... PC's are ridiculously expensive when you consider how often you need to upgrade and how they've got no resale value

No way, I can program 808 kicks with enough sub- and infrabass pressure to make you lose everything you ate in the previous >48 hours with a PII machine with 128mb RAM.. and do lots more with it.. ok, granted, it won't sound perfect (small shit like the discrete components of the 808 and it's AD/DA converters, etc, will sound different) but the sound can be used in the same way as you use the 808-BD (or the SD, CH et al, for that matter) right now, as a TOOL..

software like the waldorf attack and microtonic are pretty much 'all-in-one' drumsynths but there are LOTS of other ways to do a certain snare or kick, depending on how deep you want to tweak, and loads more to fine-tune after you start layering samples and processing them.. and once those 'all-in-one' drumsynths get more advanced, the emulations will get better, maybe simulating the 808's electronics 1:1... but yeah, granted.. few things work as easy as an 808...

  The Moon said:

there's no rule saying you have to mix down sat back in an armchair looking smug - most of those old mu-ziq & aphex twin (etc) tunes were sequenced in cubase in two or three columns - you'd manually select which bit you want looping at which time... mute and unmute parts, adjust channel faders, play in string lines...

:grin:

I wouldn't call that mixing down though, that's just jamming. Yeah, ok, some jams are more 'pre-defined' than others.. stuff like pre-programmed patterns, loops, etc..

  The Moon said:

  kokoon said:

i really doubt analords were mixed down live...

 

why's that?

 

you won't find an arrange page on a Synthi 100

 

Ehh? You can just sequence a synthi100 with cv-signals.. or midi with a cv/midi converter...

if you wanna knwo how good a Tr-606 can sound

listen to Universal Indicator. it's the daddy of the 606 and 303.

the best way to distort a 606 is overdriving the mixer channel using stomp boxes will make it sound liek shit.

and best way not to get stuck in a ceephax rut is be more influenced by UI.

on the other hand the stomp boxe's work better on the 303

  Quote

Ehh? You can just sequence a synthi100 with cv-signals.. or midi with a cv/midi converter...

techno's all about performing electronic music

  Quote

No way, I can program 808 kicks with enough sub- and infrabass pressure to make you lose everything you ate in the previous >48 hours with a PII machine with 128mb RAM.. and do lots more with it.. ok, granted, it won't sound perfect (small shit like the discrete components of the 808 and it's AD/DA converters, etc, will sound different) but the sound can be used in the same way as you use the 808-BD

no you can't

it's like the bass you get off a 202

it's not just bassy, it's got this perfect tone which makes it really easy to work with - it works well on a PA, never wooley sounding, never muddy, it works well on a walkman, got all those upper harmonics making it sound bassy and deep even when the speakers can't reproduce those low frequencies... you'll never get that off anything else

just a filtered square wave off a 202 is almost impossible to match in s/w... you can make a square/sine wave look almost identical in soundforge with a little EQ, but you can never nail the tone (the exact curve) or the nonlinearities

it's why most top-end digital technology, copying something as simple as a 2-band EQ or a compressor, gets on better with dynamic convolution (testing the original unit under every frequency and wave amplitude) then building a giant database of responses, rather than actually trying to work out the maths behind it and model it

in theory, a DX7 modulated sine wave should be able to match an 808 perfectly... and you could look at both waves in an editor and they may look 90% identical

but the nature of the curve in the analog example is what gives it its tone, and although it looks like a smooth, even curve on each, it's not necessarily possible to turn it into an equation

you can make good subtractive drum sounds in sound forge - you can even run them through MPC60 or SH-5 impulse responses and use MC202 waves rather than digitally generated wave - but like i said, it's not exactly simple, effective drum sounds to hand - you can spend hours adjusting pitch curves and messing with the EQ, and still not get the tone and presense you're after

well i just feel that there's too much tweaking going on at once to be recorded in a single shot. i'm not saying all of the old synths were externally sequenced (i'm sure some were) - some may have been sequenced with inbuilt seqs, some just arpreggiated, ... but it's clear to me that many parts were recorded separately.

Im sure it depended on the song. There were lots of parts with obvious tape manipulation. Cant really remember if it was the whole track or not. But those reversals and such is what I mean.

Oh yeah: It would guess that these parts were then mixed-down in a "Jam" with mixers just fading in and out of a combination of live and pre-recorded parts for the final mix-down. Lots of teh songs were just loops with fading in and out of parts. Its a generally fun and easy and satifying way to make music without planning everything out. Im talking of Analord BTW.