being poor in america

it'd be nice to be a union boss though, and roll around like a mafia don

just sittin back collectin dues

doin crooked deals with this or that shadey character

  On 3/20/2013 at 4:53 PM, MisterE said:

just sittin back collectin dudes

PS

I agree with delet

It seems like the only "normal" people living comfortably are those who don't mind living a transient, freewheeling, crusty lifestyle, or those who's upper middle-class parents took care off all their debt. What's frustrating is that the latter has no idea what people all around them are struggling to do. You can always tell when you meet them. Their eyes barely conceal their weakness, softness, and naivety.

I'm amazed how many people seem to have decent paid jobs but are still struggling to get by in America. To this day, my family household has never exceeded £9,000 a year and even though things were tough, magically I'm the only one who's ended up in debt (student loans are a bit different though, admittedly. I thought inequality, both socially and economically, was bad enough here (on that note, I don't want to derail the thread but I'll remind all you UK WATMMers how nice it is of Barclays to announce they gave £38.5m in bonuses on the same day everyone's already bricking themselves about the budget). Now of course I'm just looking at a glossy view of things over the pond, but would I be right in saying that healthcare has a massive effect on how many people are in poverty? I remember trying to read an explanation of the system over there and it just seemed alien and downright messed up to me.

  On 3/20/2013 at 4:43 PM, theSun said:

re:education - one problem is that a college degree only means something if you know what to do with it. everyone knows the liberal arts major who is 50K in debt because they got a BS/BA from a big name 4-year school and never found a job in their field.

 

the biggest problem among my peers in middle class suburban america are overexcited high school counselors and teachers. they convince joe smith that even though he doesn't have a clue what he wants to do for the next 20+ years (who does at 17/18?), he should fork over the 5-30k tuition per semester to figure things out based on the reputation of the institution. it's an extension of the philosophy of throwing money at a problem. you can't just spend yourself up the income ladder, which is something a lot of people believe, if only subconsciously.

I'm actually considering going into training for secondary and college music teaching but this is something that has been troubling me for a while. I want to get involved in teaching because lets face it, we live in an incredibly fucked up society for a child to be bought up in and kinda feel that every child should have the chance to express themselves within a cultural setting. Rather than spend my life sitting around complaining about it, I'd actually want to put those words into action. But at the same time, the whole system a lot of the time seems to be nothing more than teaching that the world is a competition and that throwing money for a degree will somehow make you better than everyone else and "win", which is ironically the exact opposite of what I want to teach. Here the education system still very obviously favours the elite (you only have to look at how the twat Michael Gove is fucking up things here) and until that changes, I think it'll be very difficult to sort out a lot of problems when it comes to poverty.

for everyone who wants to judge people who don't know how someone else has it, point your finger back at yourself

nobody knows how other people have it

and being poor at some point in your life doesn't instantly make you an expert on anything. it might give you a taste of something but it doesn't make your opinion automatically count any more than anyone else's. the same way a rich person might be biased because of their wealth, you are biased because of your poverty, or middle classness, etc

I'm offended that you came in this thread and told the poor they are the problem with this country Joyrex. This country is ill. The only people to blame are the people at the top. When a business crumbles do you blame the workers or do you blame the management?

There is opportunity here, but this country far from encourages everyone to achieve.

  On 3/20/2013 at 5:31 PM, MisterE said:

for everyone who wants to judge people who don't know how someone else has it, point your finger back at yourself

 

nobody knows how other people have it

 

and being poor at some point in your life doesn't instantly make you an expert on anything. it might give you a taste of something but it doesn't make your opinion automatically count any more than anyone else's. the same way a rich person might be biased because of their wealth, you are biased because of your poverty, or middle classness, etc

I majorly disagree. Being responsible when poor will likely make you a more responsible, appreciative person with money. Most people go through this at some point in their lives. Your relationship with money/success/drive/ambition, whatever it may be, plays a huge role in shaping your world view.

wait, someone here thinks 30 grand a year is poor?

from where i'm sitting the problem is not lazy crooked poor people

the problem is that an inbuilt feature of capitalism is merciless exploitation and indifference to human well-being

so you have a minimum wave that would be laughable in any other first world country (because corporations own the politicians)

you have corporations awarding tens of millions in bonuses while laying off workers in the same breath

you have media (namely TV and talk radio) that convinces people that the poor folks on welfare are the problem

or that medicare needs to go

instead of the countless trillions that go towards defense

etc

  On 3/20/2013 at 4:44 PM, RichieBees said:

is it true that americans are brainwashed to hate unions and workers rights etc etc and is this relevant to the discussion?

 

Around here (missouri) most people seem to like unions. A friend of mine was basically fired because his manager at delta airlines was in a bad mood and my friend misunderstood directions which werent clear in the first place, and two days later the union got him his job back.

  On 3/20/2013 at 5:57 PM, Sprigg said:

 

  On 3/20/2013 at 4:44 PM, RichieBees said:

is it true that americans are brainwashed to hate unions and workers rights etc etc and is this relevant to the discussion?

Around here (missouri) most people seem to like unions. A friend of mine was basically fired because his manager at delta airlines was in a bad mood and my friend misunderstood directions which werent clear in the first place, and two days later the union got him his job back.

Alot of non-rich people badmouth unions. My father, for instance. He listens to right-wing radio and watches Bill O'Reilly and stuff like that and he used to go on and on about how bad unions are. He has no knowledge of unions outside of right-wing media, so he hates them. He doesn't realize that unions raise the quality of life (e.g. wages) of the surrounding community, let alone the perks of actual being within the union, like workers' rights and higher wages.

Richie, yeah the propaganda is crazy and the worse part is it's very effective.

  On 3/20/2013 at 6:12 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Richie, yeah the propaganda is crazy and the worse part is it's very effective.

ye dont think i thionk the uk is a perfect place where there arnt rich bastards turning everyone on eachother instead of themselves btw :)

  On 3/20/2013 at 5:39 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

I'm offended that you came in this thread and told the poor they are the problem with this country Joyrex. This country is ill. The only people to blame are the people at the top. When a business crumbles do you blame the workers or do you blame the management?

 

There is opportunity here, but this country far from encourages everyone to achieve.

this is a perfect example of something i was going to say. people automatically assuming that the rich are to blame in all cases, all of the times. if a business crumbled i wouldn't go blaming ANYONE until i looked at the facts to see what happened. in a smaller business it very well could be the result of some kind of fault of the workers. you can't just go around automatically assuming who is to blame and this is part of the problem.

  On 3/20/2013 at 4:19 PM, delet... said:

 

  On 3/20/2013 at 3:52 PM, Joyrex said:

Delet: The margin of error would not be that slim if people realized they just can't afford things like other people around them (America seems to be afflicted with this "keeping up with the Joneses attitude" where everyone thinks they can afford what they see their neighbors possessing and/or doing

 

This is a cliché that becons to the just aboves. The idea of mcmansions sits well with those just above that. Reality puts paid to this foul disease of the mind. Over the past 35 years, economic growth has only benifited the top 10%. Lately the top 1%. Wages have remained stagnent. Jobs available have transitioned from Full time with benefits, to casual with none. And whenever you hear about job growth, it's usually a casual employee taking on a second (or third) job. Or it's after the christmas quarter (i love it when they drag out this lie).

 

Most people are the same as they have ever been, and live within their means. But unfortunately life intercedes and they have medical bills and kids, and rent. ! Hence credit card bills etc. Have some sympathy or join the devil.

good ol delete spewing delusional bullshit all around:

and also this: http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/USA.html

inequality is on the rise as well and it's a tricky beast, but it doesn't mean that the quality/standard of life of the low classes is decreasing or stagnant.

my tory friend says that about the free market

hes like yeah so the rich will get richer but the poor get richer aswell

lol mre sticking up for the very rich, they are pretty unfortunate no one understands them id hate to be rich everyone automatically hates u :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( poors/minorities/women get it so easy nowadays white men are discriminated against

wtf does race have to do with anything discussed?

by the looks of that graph black ppl are poor in america?

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:15 PM, RichieBees said:

by the looks of that graph black ppl are poor in america?

I wish they would ban you just so I don't have to scroll through the bullshit you type to read a thread.

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:10 PM, theSun said:

wtf does race have to do with anything discussed?

alot unfortunately

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:25 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:15 PM, RichieBees said:

by the looks of that graph black ppl are poor in america?

 

I wish they would ban you just so I don't have to scroll through the bullshit you type to read a thread.

Wait, I can just put you on ignore. Nevermind.

i have personal experience with unions not giving a shit about people who actually worked hard at their jobs, while some people 'inexplicably' got to fuck off all day and had total immunity from trouble. but hey maybe unions are good because it's like a lottery where if you get in with them, then you are IN

and so you can always have that hope that you can be elevated from just another person who actually has to work to get their check, to being in with the union

its that hope that keeps us going, right?

lol

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:36 PM, MisterE said:

i have personal experience with unions not giving a shit about people who actually worked hard at their jobs, while some people 'inexplicably' got to fuck off all day and had total immunity from trouble. but hey maybe unions are good because it's like a lottery where if you get in with them, then you are IN

 

and so you can always have that hope that you can be elevated from just another person who actually has to work to get their check, to being in with the union

 

its that hope that keeps us going, right?

My girlfriend's in a union and she (and all her coworkers) are paid well and not exploited. If not for the union they would be paid half as much and overworked.

There is always the possibility for corruption in any organization, and it is certainly not unique to unions. By this logic we should dismantle the police and every other institution on the planet.

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:25 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:15 PM, RichieBees said:

by the looks of that graph black ppl are poor in america?

 

I wish they would ban you just so I don't have to scroll through the bullshit you type to read a thread.

C'mon now, fellas.

I have no expert knowledge on economics, but from a practical standpoint I think the best way to save money and get by is to avoid buying shit we don't need. The "American Dream" and the whole "keeping up with the Jones" cliches are outdated myths IMO. We must do what works best for ourselves. I agree that it also helps to cut down on restaurant dining.

I know I bitch sometimes about not making enough money after having to pay rent, cell phone bills, car and health insurance, and internet each month, as well as being in the same job I started nearly seven years ago. But on the bright side, as a college graduate I don't have any student loan or credit card debt.

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:44 PM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:25 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 3/20/2013 at 7:15 PM, RichieBees said:

by the looks of that graph black ppl are poor in america?

 

I wish they would ban you just so I don't have to scroll through the bullshit you type to read a thread.

 

C'mon now, fellas.

 

I have no expert knowledge on economics, but from a practical standpoint I think the best way to save money and get by is to avoid buying shit we don't need. The "American Dream" and the whole "keeping up with the Jones" cliches are outdated myths IMO. We must do what works best for ourselves. I agree that it also helps to cut down on restaurant dining.

 

I know I bitch sometimes about not making enough money after having to pay rent, cell phone bills, car and health insurance, and internet each month, as well as being in the same job I started nearly seven years ago. But on the bright side, as a college graduate I don't have any student loan or credit card debt.

The issue is the people having trouble paying rent, not dining out.