Another school shooting

How do the armed guards operate? Is their a metal detector at the school entrance? How would they prevent a gun attack?

  On 4/13/2013 at 12:40 AM, ghOsty said:

 

  On 4/12/2013 at 11:17 PM, rixxx said:

 

  On 4/12/2013 at 11:11 PM, Fred McGriff said:

I wasn't here for the school shooting in ct discussion, but that destroyed my soul and still does when I think about. I really believe that it's a mental health issue, not a gun issue. I have no solutions to offer other than zero media coverage anymore, so the promise of infamy is no longer a motivator.

 

 

Yeah media really doesn't help- it's going to be a difficult change that has to come 'from the people' rather than government.

 

Maybe it's a symptom of a culture that is so heavily about individualism?

 

 

Well said, it's definitely more of a healthcare issue than a gun issue. The guns aren't the issue, the issue is these individuals need mental help, they probably couldn't afford or didn't have access to. The infamy they get from the coverage is also a huge motivator. Although it's terrible that it happened, if the media would stop covering these events there wouldn't be so many copycats.

 

 

I think it is partially healthcare. I also think it is an overall problem with our society. Healthcare, education, media, personal freedom. There are tons of things that contribute to unhappiness. The country needs to be fixed.

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:23 AM, Nebraska said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:03 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Arming teachers is like the least appropriate way of handling this problem, but it would at least be a solution. I think the possibility of teachers going crazy and shooting people is less of a threat than potential shooters. I don't really like this solution at all though. Teachers are supposed to be focused on teaching. They didn't become teachers to be armed guards.

 

why not just have armed guards be the teachers- and have the teachers teach the armed guards how to teach the kids? or how about

 

 

I didn't propose arming teachers. I was responding to Rixx's comments about arming teachers. I don't think arming teachers is a good idea.

 

I don't get why you are being sarcastic. I realize that you don't like guns and you don't like armed people at school.

 

Do you like dead children?

 

Why do people on WATMM try to bait out ugly arguments all the time?

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:25 AM, Pennywise said:

How do the armed guards operate? Is their a metal detector at the school entrance? How would they prevent a gun attack?

 

The same way they operate at any other place where there is a metal detector guarded entrance with security. If you want to see it go your local courthouse, airport, post office, or wherever there is a necessity for guards.

 

Also, did this happen, because I didn't see it on the news?

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:19 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:11 AM, Adjective said:

I would worry more what daily exposure to armed guards would do to a kid's head than fears of the shooting spree lottery. Also I can't imagine it would improve our situation with the school-to-prison pipeline.

While it is admirable to worry about the psychology of a child, I think that safety is a much bigger concern. I remember more so being in awe and curious about people like police officers, firemen, and other public servants. As a child I felt like they were all heroes, or completely trustworthy authorities. I also think that there are much harder things to get used to than seeing a guard where you go to school. At least more peace of mind might exist. I don't think that it would create less peace of mind, and maybe after a few decades security presence might be able to be diminished. Once we figure out all this other shit.

 

What do you mean school to prison pipeline?

 

I would also note there is a security presence, both armed and unarmed, at a lot of schools.

 

the school to prison pipeline, as i understand it, is where kids are funnelled out of schools for minor infractions and into alternative schools or juvenile detention. So instead of at risk kids getting some much needed guidance, they are left behind by the school system, and placed with more troubled kids and a less supportive environment. I mention because i imagine with the presence of a security force, altercations are more likely to end in cuffs, than with any sort of counselling.

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:33 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:25 AM, Pennywise said:

How do the armed guards operate? Is their a metal detector at the school entrance? How would they prevent a gun attack?

 

The same way they operate at any other place where there is a metal detector guarded entrance with security. If you want to see it go your local courthouse, airport, post office, or wherever there is a necessity for guards.

 

Also, did this happen, because I didn't see it on the news?

 

 

So you want a system where about 2000 students go in and out of a metal detector everyday, with keys, belts and other metallic objects in their pockets. I think if I had to do that everyday I'd shoot someone

Edited April 13, 2013 by Pennywise

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:37 AM, Adjective said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:19 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:11 AM, Adjective said:

I would worry more what daily exposure to armed guards would do to a kid's head than fears of the shooting spree lottery. Also I can't imagine it would improve our situation with the school-to-prison pipeline.

While it is admirable to worry about the psychology of a child, I think that safety is a much bigger concern. I remember more so being in awe and curious about people like police officers, firemen, and other public servants. As a child I felt like they were all heroes, or completely trustworthy authorities. I also think that there are much harder things to get used to than seeing a guard where you go to school. At least more peace of mind might exist. I don't think that it would create less peace of mind, and maybe after a few decades security presence might be able to be diminished. Once we figure out all this other shit.

 

What do you mean school to prison pipeline?

 

I would also note there is a security presence, both armed and unarmed, at a lot of schools.

 

the school to prison pipeline, as i understand it, is where kids are funnelled out of schools for minor infractions and into alternative schools or juvenile detention. So instead of at risk kids getting some much needed guidance, they are left behind by the school system, and placed with more troubled kids and a less supportive environment. I mention because i imagine with the presence of a security force, altercations are more likely to end in cuffs, than with any sort of counselling.

 

 

 

Well, I do think that this is a problem for a lot of reason including the things you said. I ended up in an alternative school for something I did outside of school, which is complete bullshit in my opinion. I don't really think that it would have any effect on how these incidents are handled. All teachers handle things differently, and part of being a teacher is knowing how to discipline children. Some teachers won't send kids to the principal for a fight (experienced this myself), and other teachers will. I don't think there will be some huge shift in philosophy for something like this, especially considering a lot of schools have security and police officers on campus already.

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:41 AM, Pennywise said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:33 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:25 AM, Pennywise said:

How do the armed guards operate? Is their a metal detector at the school entrance? How would they prevent a gun attack?

 

The same way they operate at any other place where there is a metal detector guarded entrance with security. If you want to see it go your local courthouse, airport, post office, or wherever there is a necessity for guards.

 

Also, did this happen, because I didn't see it on the news?

 

 

So you want a system where about 2000 students go in and out of a metal detector everyday, with keys, belts and other metallic objects in their pockets.

 

 

No, I want a system where people are mentally healthy and don't resort to violence in such a heinous manner. I think when something necessitates a change that it is our obligation to attempt a solution.

 

A) They already do this at alternative schools

B) We do this at the airport and other places

C) Is it better to adapt to having to go through a metal detector everyday and be safe or do nothing?

 

I don't have all the answers, but I think that this is a doable solution.

 

The basic premise of this is to send the message that if you go to a school with a weapon:

 

A) You will fail at killing people

B) You will die or be arrested

Edited April 13, 2013 by AdieuErsatzEnnui

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:41 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:37 AM, Adjective said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:19 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:11 AM, Adjective said:

I would worry more what daily exposure to armed guards would do to a kid's head than fears of the shooting spree lottery. Also I can't imagine it would improve our situation with the school-to-prison pipeline.

While it is admirable to worry about the psychology of a child, I think that safety is a much bigger concern. I remember more so being in awe and curious about people like police officers, firemen, and other public servants. As a child I felt like they were all heroes, or completely trustworthy authorities. I also think that there are much harder things to get used to than seeing a guard where you go to school. At least more peace of mind might exist. I don't think that it would create less peace of mind, and maybe after a few decades security presence might be able to be diminished. Once we figure out all this other shit.

 

What do you mean school to prison pipeline?

 

I would also note there is a security presence, both armed and unarmed, at a lot of schools.

 

the school to prison pipeline, as i understand it, is where kids are funnelled out of schools for minor infractions and into alternative schools or juvenile detention. So instead of at risk kids getting some much needed guidance, they are left behind by the school system, and placed with more troubled kids and a less supportive environment. I mention because i imagine with the presence of a security force, altercations are more likely to end in cuffs, than with any sort of counselling.

 

 

Well, I do think that this is a problem for a lot of reason including the things you said. I ended up in an alternative school for something I did outside of school, which is complete bullshit in my opinion. I don't really think that it would have any effect on how these incidents are handled. All teachers handle things differently, and part of being a teacher is knowing how to discipline children. Some teachers won't send kids to the principal for a fight (experienced this myself), and other teachers will. I don't think there will be some huge shift in philosophy for something like this, especially considering a lot of schools have security and police officers on campus already.

 

that current presence of security / police in schools is often cited as a contributor to that pipeline. Something to do with teachers and admins yielding monitoring responsibilities to security, who often aren't well trained at interaction with kids. i'll admit this isn't something i've studied in depth, more a recent interest i've been too apathetic to delve into. i may be talking out of my ass, take this view with a grain of salt

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:33 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

I didn't propose arming teachers. I was responding to Rixx's comments about arming teachers. I don't think arming teachers is a good idea.

 

I don't get why you are being sarcastic. I realize that you don't like guns and you don't like armed people at school.

 

Do you like dead children?

 

Why do people on WATMM try to bait out ugly arguments all the time?

i'm not trying to bait arguments. i'm just trying to understand people's statement (at least the ones who claim this is a gun problem). i appologize if you felt attacked by me. that's not my intention.

 

also: what does everyone think of this school's decision to allow it's student to carry guns?

wow, didn't know about this. It's a school for christ's sake. Ugh

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576120/Metal-detectors-in-schools-to-stop-knife-crime.html

 

it's 2008 hah

Edited April 13, 2013 by Pennywise

fuck. this. shit.

my beautiful 2nd cousin goes to school there, my great aunt in christiansburg is dying of ALS, my great uncle, senior professor of chemistry at vtech was present during the vtech shooting, they don't need this. fuck this

Sorry man. I hope they are all ok. ( as much as they can be)

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:19 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

While it is admirable to worry about the psychology of a child, I think that safety is a much bigger concern. I remember more so being in awe and curious about people like police officers, firemen, and other public servants. As a child I felt like they were all heroes, or completely trustworthy authorities. I also think that there are much harder things to get used to than seeing a guard where you go to school. At least more peace of mind might exist. I don't think that it would create less peace of mind, and maybe after a few decades security presence might be able to be diminished. Once we figure out all this other shit.

 

 

 

Prime example of how the fish doesn't know it's swimming in water.

  On 4/13/2013 at 9:53 PM, drukqs said:

 

  On 4/13/2013 at 1:19 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

While it is admirable to worry about the psychology of a child, I think that safety is a much bigger concern. I remember more so being in awe and curious about people like police officers, firemen, and other public servants. As a child I felt like they were all heroes, or completely trustworthy authorities. I also think that there are much harder things to get used to than seeing a guard where you go to school. At least more peace of mind might exist. I don't think that it would create less peace of mind, and maybe after a few decades security presence might be able to be diminished. Once we figure out all this other shit.

 

 

 

Prime example of how the fish doesn't know it's swimming in water.

 

 

Honestly I think guards at school is fine. At least its a better solution than anything anyone else came up with.

 

Control the national news to not share information about the killer.

Put Guards in schools with guns (gasp)

 

All you would need at most schools is one guard, maybe 2. And they would essentially serve as the police in a mini society (school). So people getting pissy about a guard at their school should be equally pissed off at cops driving around their towns all day. But their not, because the police keep us safe from these psychopathic lunatics.

Edited April 13, 2013 by compson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuDjGv2A6OY

 

 

The John Stewart clip on this is hilarious... don't have it here unfortunately... startling numbers of criminals (assaults, sex crimes, bank robbery) joining these groups lol.

why does steven seagal look like he's about to blow up a cafe in tel aviv?

i grew up in Littleton, CO and was at a middle school a couple miles from Columbine in 1999 (ultimately i attended the next high school over due to where i lived, catchment areas, etc.). this metal detector idea was floated then for a short while, but there was no real support for it owing to how difficult and expensive it would be to implement. the 'guard' idea is bemusing - at least in Jefferson County, every school has an armed officer present. there was one at Columbine on the day who returned fire with the shooters, and there was one at my school every day. is this not the case across the country?

 

i think US gun laws should generally be brought in line with those of Western Europe, but the aforementioned issues of media coverage and teenager gun mentality need addressing. in my opinion, the way these incidents are treated by the US media also contributes to a slightly inaccurate perception that such shootings are in some respects an American phenomenon. school shootings are just as common in Europe - look at such deadly incidents as Dunblane (1996), Erfurt (2002), Norway (2011), to cite but a few examples off the top of my head (OK, the last wasn't a school, but a huge number of teenagers were murdered).

Could America be cursed? American Indian cursed?

if you had school guards you would have people shooting up food courts at the mall. Its about soft targets. I figure the odds are lottery numbers that you''ll be in a situation with a crazed shooter. blaming the media is pointless as we live in an information age. might have been relevant in the 80's pre ubiquitous internet access.

It is all priorities man. The US has huge resources. It is all about the people in charge deciding how our money is spent.