Stephen Hawking boycotts conference in Israel

  On 5/10/2013 at 7:04 PM, goDel said:

I'll take a guess and assume they weren't present on the wedding. Did you even invite them, or just assumed they wouldn't come over and send them a card afterwards?

nah they weren't.. they are absolute Schnorrers. There's not a English word that cuts the same way.

  On 5/10/2013 at 7:26 PM, xox said:

> Zionism Is Not Judaism <

very true.

Although, I still find it funny when there was a pro Palestine march in Brighton some members of the crowd came into my parents deli and bought a latke and a salt beef bagel...

hay ho.

  On 5/10/2013 at 7:10 PM, Ceerial said:

"YOLO"

 

 

- Stephen Hawking

The thing is, its not such a clear cut thing and sadly it brings out a lot of anti semitism. I'm not sure whether it was the 'right decision' to not go to Israel. If he feels that his travelling there would be against his moral stance than it would be hypocritical of him to go, we are all free to have our views, even if the waters on the issue are muddy.

  On 5/10/2013 at 7:42 PM, Lane Visitor said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 7:15 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 6:04 PM, Lane Visitor said:

i'm not really concerned with what he thinks about israel.. the same way im not concerned what my doctor thinks about how i produce electronic music haha

you are concerned though, or you wouldn't have made several assertions such as he did this because he caved to pressure from palestinians or that he did it to be 'fashionable'. You can act as if you don't give a shit, but you clearly have a pretty strong opinion about it. You obviously seem to think that even this very mild form of 'protest' is 'misguided'. So for someone who isn't 'concerned what he thinks about Israel', you sure have a lot of judgments about the way in which he criticized it.

 

 

I guess I'm more concerned with the BDS in itself than Hawking, to be clear.. the idea of boycotting an entire nation. The fact that Hawking is a symbol of intelligence to the world, and that he refused to go there in respect for the boycott movement puts the aspect of Israeli boycott into headlines- that's the issue that I'm addressing, not necessarily Hawking or his personal viewpoints.

 

lol

But you're NOT concerned about human rights?...Vital human rights! On what planet you're living? Kronos?!

Israel oppressing Palestinians for decades now and because of that oppression 3rd generation of Palestinians live in a refugee camps. I understand that boycotting can be stupid but if this isn't good enough reason to boycott - What is?!

The only thing that's worse than that is a genocide.

Again... > Zionism Is Not Judaism < ...so, anti-zionism is NOT anti-judaism.

Is boycotting part of a solution though?

Would you boycot the Bejing Olympics because of poor human rights conditions in China? Or would you support the Olympics as a means to connect to China and build bridges and keep open communication and influence?

IMO, boycotting is just another kind of violence. A non-physical, isolating kind of violence.

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:10 PM, goDel said:

Is boycotting part of a solution though?

 

Would you boycot the Bejing Olympics because of poor human rights conditions in China? Or would you support the Olympics as a means to connect to China and build bridges and keep open communication and influence?

 

The solution would be to kill all Palestinians. Happy now?

As for comparison to China...I'm sorry that you see those two things as equal but that's your mental problem.

of course zionism is not judaism.. it's a movement of jewish identity and the establishment of a homeland that ensured the safety of the people at a time when a major force on earth was succeeding at exterminating them. the concept of jewish survival and identity spawned zionism. so, judaism does not equal zionism, of course, but it's no doubt, intimately related.

to brashly claim oneself as anti-zionist without knowing the history, and only basing their words from the limited knowledge they have gotten by listening to Roger Waters discuss the gaza and maybe a few other voices is, in my view, simply ignorant, not necessarily anti-semetic.

to lead an anti-zionist crusade by constantly demonizing israel and every action they take, justifying suicide bombings, etc, denying their right to exist, and also using language that makes the entire country out to be evil or comparing them to nazis, and so forth.. this kind of anti-zionism, imo, is straight up anti-semetism under the veil of criticizing a country (instead of a people).

if people used the language "government", "leadership", infrastructure" as opposed to just "israel", "zionism" when dealing with criticism, then i think it's more constructive and i'm more open to hearing arguments.

respectful people don't blast an entire people, race, culture for the policies of their government.

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:16 PM, xox said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:10 PM, goDel said:

Is boycotting part of a solution though?

 

Would you boycot the Bejing Olympics because of poor human rights conditions in China? Or would you support the Olympics as a means to connect to China and build bridges and keep open communication and influence?

 

 

The solution would be to kill all Palestinians. Happy now?

 

As for comparison to China...I'm sorry that you see those two things as equal but that's your mental problem.

 

Wow, thanks for your considerations there. Either a boycot, or just killing civilians. If that are the options, why would there even be a discussion... :S

i wouldn't mind him boycotting specific departments which are proved to be supportive of governmental policies that harm palestinians, but such blanket boycott of the whole israeli academia, which is the breeding ground for israeli peace sentiment is counter productive to say the least. bds is a joke, even harsh critics of israel like chomsky and finkelstein (he calls it a cult) shy away from it.

@Lane Visitor

so...you have problems with generalizations of people yet you have no qualms with calling the entire population of north Korea "brainwashed"?

edit: i don't support sanctions or boycotts, to be clear. human engagement is the way forward.

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:21 PM, Lane Visitor said:

of course zionism is not judaism.. it's a movement of jewish identity and the establishment of a homeland that ensured the safety of the people at a time when a major force on earth was succeeding at exterminating them. the concept of jewish survival and identity spawned zionism. so, judaism does not equal zionism, of course, but it's no doubt, intimately related.

 

to brashly claim oneself as anti-zionist without knowing the history, and only basing their words from the limited knowledge they have gotten by listening to Roger Waters discuss the gaza and maybe a few other voices is, in my view, simply ignorant, not necessarily anti-semetic.

 

to lead an anti-zionist crusade by constantly demonizing israel and every action they take, justifying suicide bombings, etc, denying their right to exist, and also using language that makes the entire country out to be evil or comparing them to nazis, and so forth.. this kind of anti-zionism, imo, is straight up anti-semetism under the veil of criticizing a country (instead of a people).

 

if people used the language "government", "leadership", infrastructure" as opposed to just "israel", "zionism" when dealing with criticism, then i think it's more constructive and i'm more open to hearing arguments.

 

respectful people don't blast an entire people, race, culture for the policies of their government.

flol dude, what exactly are you talking about haha? you just instantly showed up in this thread railing against all kinds of shit that has absolutely nothing to do with the specific incident. the ever fashionable hawking and his anti-zionist crusade based on no knowledge of history outside of that provided but roger waters. lol man.

i really don't see what the big deal is. no one would bat a fucking eye if he cited political reasons not to attend something in iran or whatever. it's perfectly normal for academics to do this.

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:44 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:21 PM, Lane Visitor said:

of course zionism is not judaism.. it's a movement of jewish identity and the establishment of a homeland that ensured the safety of the people at a time when a major force on earth was succeeding at exterminating them. the concept of jewish survival and identity spawned zionism. so, judaism does not equal zionism, of course, but it's no doubt, intimately related.

 

to brashly claim oneself as anti-zionist without knowing the history, and only basing their words from the limited knowledge they have gotten by listening to Roger Waters discuss the gaza and maybe a few other voices is, in my view, simply ignorant, not necessarily anti-semetic.

 

to lead an anti-zionist crusade by constantly demonizing israel and every action they take, justifying suicide bombings, etc, denying their right to exist, and also using language that makes the entire country out to be evil or comparing them to nazis, and so forth.. this kind of anti-zionism, imo, is straight up anti-semetism under the veil of criticizing a country (instead of a people).

 

if people used the language "government", "leadership", infrastructure" as opposed to just "israel", "zionism" when dealing with criticism, then i think it's more constructive and i'm more open to hearing arguments.

 

respectful people don't blast an entire people, race, culture for the policies of their government.

flol dude, what exactly are you talking about haha? you just instantly showed up in this thread railing against all kinds of shit that has absolutely nothing to do with the specific incident. the ever fashionable hawking and his anti-zionist crusade based on no knowledge of history outside of that provided but roger waters. lol man.

 

i really don't see what the big deal is. no one would bat a fucking eye if he cited political reasons not to attend something in iran or whatever. it's perfectly normal for academics to do this.

 

Ah, sorry I should have been more clear and directed (im at work atm, and kinda go on tangents sometimes)..

I was actually responding to the few mentions of zionism in this thread, and putting in my opinion about how zionism/antizionism relates to judaism/anti-semetism as few posters had brought up.. nothing regarding hawking there.. i don't think he's an anti-zionist or anything, totally off the subject

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:41 PM, chenGOD said:

@Lane Visitor

so...you have problems with generalizations of people yet you have no qualms with calling the entire population of north Korea "brainwashed"?

 

edit: i don't support sanctions or boycotts, to be clear. human engagement is the way forward.

yes i would have a problem with people calling the entire population of north Korea "brainwashed", nor do i think they are.

.. i was using an example, but did not eloquently state it, my mistake.

To be clear, I would never label, offend or disrespect the North Korean people or generalize them. What I meant to illustrate was how some people generalize an entire country, and that would be an example of how someone might refer to them. It just came out wrong.

As a side note, and to further illustrate how cumbersome of an example that was, the people of North Korea live in very sad conditions and are indeed, fed propaganda through their households on a daily basis. Whether or not they do buy into the fact that the west, south koreans and other non-koreans are evil as kju may want them to believe, it still doesn't make me think they all inherently feel that way, and they are indeed victims of a leadership that treats them poorly and attempts to brainwash them via a nationalist mindset. hope that clears it up, i have absolutely nothing against any nationalities/races/religions/etc, nor do i think anyone should use use language that is generalizing and puts other peoples in a corner.

but he isn't boycotting the country of Israel, he's boycotting a 'science' conference which celebrates the policies of the israeli government and is also in part sponsored by them. There is a stark difference between what you're asserting he's done vs what the reality is. If he just simply said 'fuck israel, im not stepping foot in a country that commits apartheid you'd have somewhat of a point (but i'd still probably stand firmly behind his sentiments), but he didn't do that.

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:44 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

i really don't see what the big deal is. no one would bat a fucking eye if he cited political reasons not to attend something in iran or whatever. it's perfectly normal for academics to do this.

 

It's an outdated fashion to do that though, that shit's old school. boycotting Iran? sheesh, what's *in* right now is boycotting israel, all the hippest are doing it. get with the times bro

Sorry had to drop it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA27aQZCQMk

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:34 PM, goDel said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:16 PM, xox said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:10 PM, goDel said:

Is boycotting part of a solution though?

 

Would you boycot the Bejing Olympics because of poor human rights conditions in China? Or would you support the Olympics as a means to connect to China and build bridges and keep open communication and influence?

 

 

The solution would be to kill all Palestinians. Happy now?

 

As for comparison to China...I'm sorry that you see those two things as equal but that's your mental problem.

 

 

 

Wow, thanks for your considerations there. Either a boycot, or just killing civilians. If that are the options, why would there even be a discussion... :S

 

Oooo c'mon man! They're too 'discussing' for decades aren't they and all that time Palestinians are being born in refugee camps.

ok here is what i've learned today

criticizing israel = in fashion

boycotting = violence

thanks watmm

  On 5/10/2013 at 9:55 PM, xox said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:34 PM, goDel said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:16 PM, xox said:

 

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:10 PM, goDel said:

Is boycotting part of a solution though?

 

Would you boycot the Bejing Olympics because of poor human rights conditions in China? Or would you support the Olympics as a means to connect to China and build bridges and keep open communication and influence?

 

 

The solution would be to kill all Palestinians. Happy now?

 

As for comparison to China...I'm sorry that you see those two things as equal but that's your mental problem.

 

 

 

Wow, thanks for your considerations there. Either a boycot, or just killing civilians. If that are the options, why would there even be a discussion... :S

 

 

Oooo c'mon man! They're too 'discussing' for decades aren't they and all that time Palestinians are being born in refugee camps.

 

of all the issues to pick at...

they are being kept there for political reasons not because there's no choice (no refugees>>no right of return>>no removal of zionist entity from arab lands). it's really not a problem for the arab world to chip in and build some proper housing for them.

yeah, they should email the arab world about that.

Maybe he wouldn't be so obsessed with being fashionable if he could dress himself.

  On 5/10/2013 at 10:59 PM, Alcofribas said:

yeah, they should email the arab world about that.

you're a nice lolster and all alco but your snarky misinformed remarks aren't contributing to anything. im not making this stuff up, it's been an official policy of many arab states if not the league itself.

lol, i'm just joking bro.

you're right about me being "misinformed" though; palestinians obv don't have email yet.

which ones ? there are 5 "kinds" of pelestinians at least with varying life chances. you really don't want to skip this thread ?

  On 5/10/2013 at 8:34 PM, eugene said:

i wouldn't mind him boycotting specific departments which are proved to be supportive of governmental policies that harm palestinians, but such blanket boycott of the whole israeli academia, which is the breeding ground for israeli peace sentiment is counter productive to say the least.

This is a very good point and I think many academics would do well to play this role, giving strength to the us and them type mentality which these things start to shape into.

I was going to say something intelligent and deeply compassionate in this thread but then rixxx mentioned salt beef bagels and now all I care about is locating a fucking salt beef bagel to put in my frigging mouf