Help Ban Horrifying Animal Abuse Videos in the Philippines

i was down with that graphic until I had to have a hearty lol out of the PETA is associated with the ELF and animal liberation front '2 ORGANIZATIONS THE US GOVERNMENT DEEMS DOMESTIC TERRORISTS' wow what a bunch of fucking bullshit. So because John Ashcroft, a man who lost to a dead man in a governor race said it, it's now a valid argument? *barfs*

I have problems with PETA sometimes, but this graphic just shot its self in the foot with the stupidest statement I've seen all day





Anybody who uses the idea that 'eco-terrorism' is a serious threat, loses all credibility out of the gates. I don't care how long we've been indoctrinated to think that the ELF is as scary as a suicide bomber, but to me its no smarter than something Sarah Palin would say with a straight face.

No, I won't sign your petition, because if I do, I would start petitioning for all the causes in the world, especially for the outrageously blatant ones, and incessantly turning into a serial petitioner. You all know the type.

someone should raise money on the internet to put a bullet in these sick fucks

Just to reiterate: it really irks me that this in particular bothers people.

The irony is that outrage over these videos actually weakens my faith in the future of animal rights.

  On 7/19/2013 at 4:27 AM, LimpyLoo said:

...

***To me the interesting discussion is about how one enacts one's values or morals. For instance, stuff like the Animal Liberation Front really hit on the moral dilemma of animal rights: If you truly believe that animals deserve the rights and dignities afforded humans then the logical, moral thing to do is break into labs and liberate as many animals as possible, laws be damned. And of course this runs contrary to the sort of Paul McCartney strain of animal rights activism, where you fund just causes and try to raise awareness and stuff like that and then just kinda hope people come around, which Animal Liberation Front would probably liken to trying to raise awareness about [American] slavery and just hope that the slave-owners come around.

What to do, what to do...

Sounds to me, one should take the political route, instead of the activists route. The same route that brought us the international human rights law, for example. It's quite telling that when you google international human rights you get top hits from wiki pages describing official laws and organisations, and the page from the un. Googling international animal rights however gives a different picture. Some conference and gatherings, a list of animal rights groups and a defunct organisation. Hardly anything outside of the activists realm, as far as I can tell.

I've got nothing against activists, but as long as there is no real (international) political will, there won't be real sustainable solutions, I believe.

I think he's raised some valid points. No need to "come on" him when you disagree, i guess. Even if this argument has been made before. I'd imagine there wouldn't be any difference from the animals point of view. Take any other non-animal point of view, and the story would indeed be quite different.

For instance, the legal point of view. If there would be such a thing as international animal rights, distinctions like these would make perfect sense ( even though they wouldn't really matter from the animals point of view).

  On 7/19/2013 at 8:53 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 7/19/2013 at 4:27 AM, LimpyLoo said:

Given that these snuff videos are literally just a slight twist on what happens to billions of animals yearly, I don't find this even remotely noteworthy as far as animal rights are concerned.

 

lol, "just a slight twist"? so, like, the distinction between farming animals for food (cruelly/not cruelly/whatever) and killing animals (and filming it) ostensibly for sexual pleasure or some other weird gratification is just a slight distinction? come on, Limp.

 

I think we've argued about this before.

 

The only difference I see is the reason for the suffering--the intentions of the people causing the suffering--which is academic in my view. If animal rights is the actual concern here--and not just aesthetic repulsion--then in what universe would it matter why an animal was tortured? Either they deserve rights or they don't.

I would even go so far as to say that slaughterhouse treatment is magnitudes worse [caution: NSFW, animal cruelty] and that crush videos pale in contrast to the point that they are a nearly negligable issue in the grand scheme of animal rights. I mean, we're talking hundreds (thousands, maybe) versus tens of billions, most of whom have suffered much worse than any crush video.

Of course, if there is a fault in my premises or my logic then please let me know, but from where I'm sitting this is how things look.

Cheers

I think what you're saying is quite consistent, Limpy.

My only justification is that I think of being alive as a violent act. On a cellular level we are waging war daily. Nature is a battle for food, often ending in death. We just happen to have become disgustingly efficient at it. I know my body thrives on eating other animals. I think it's a natural thing on an individual level, even when on an institutional level it's horrifying.

So, yes. Completely agree that animal rights are inconsistent. Maybe people feel as though animals killed for food, no matter how gruesomely, are serving an understandable purpose; whereas they recoil at a sexual motive.

I for one feel an obligation to hunt for my food someday. I know in my heart I would appreciate meat as a gift from an animal if I was the one killing and preparing it for food.

I find the blase attitude some people have about murder as entertainment, extremely disturbing.

  On 7/19/2013 at 11:34 AM, MadameChaos said:

I find the blase attitude some people have about murder as entertainment, extremely disturbing.

Are you a vegan/vegetarian?

  On 7/19/2013 at 10:10 AM, A/D said:

I for one feel an obligation to hunt for my food someday. I know in my heart I would appreciate meat as a gift from an animal if I was the one killing and preparing it for food.

I'm the same way. My guilt from eating meat always stems from consuming it as a meaningless byproduct (fast food nuggets) or in absurd quantities (i.e. many American diets). I've felt a lot better in the last few years by going days eating only vegetarian meals. I'm also someone who has an affinity for animals in general and that makes me feel a lot more obligated to appreciate livestock and meat as many people have to in other parts of the world.

I would love to say I'm completely against all kinds of animal killing and torture. However, I do eat meat so don't wholly appreciate the whole situation.

I do know that this is sort of "sport", or whatever the fuck, is demented and needs to be stopped. Unfortunately, like stopping shark hunting, it'll take more than thousands reposting an email or statement.

I try and avoid cheap meat, eggs and fish that have been caught by purse seine/long line fishing methods and whatnot. I don't feel guilty about eating meat, but I do feel guilty if I know my money is going into perpetuating systems like battery farming and/or the rape of the oceans.

I took part in this thing http://www.fishfight.net/

Change is happening because enough people got behind it and signed the petition. If you care about an issue, it's worth doing something about - even if it's just clicking a button or something. IMO anyway

  On 7/19/2013 at 7:56 PM, LimpyLoo said:

  On 7/19/2013 at 11:34 AM, MadameChaos said:

I find the blase attitude some people have about murder as entertainment, extremely disturbing.

Are you a vegan/vegetarian?

I eat fish and diary but avoid meat.

I only eat sustainably sourced fish, free range eggs and organic milk.

all the killing must come to an end. we are under the illusion, based on examples of the past, that imposing death, instead of exclusively supporting life is somehow necessary or mandatory on earth for survival. we think not with our hearts and in terms of what is truly possible, but with our stomachs and our most stubborn, destructive nature; our appetite for destruction and the pain sorrow and suffering, the decimation this insatiable appetite lays plain for us to see all around us and it is growing like a virus. we must stop; we now have new potential in the world, far greater then any period in history, to live in peace and goodwill, without need for the current system which poses as our great hope and our only means of change. we can indeed change without them if we could all only come to terms with the truth and unify, pointed in one single directing, our power in our numbers, the minority learning and educating itself to become the majority for the first time in the history of the world. for the first time, deny all of our dark behaviors which we have the ability to deny, using our advanced intellect and advanced ability to love. yet we do not take advantage of this potentiality within ourselves because we are either to stupid as a species or under the spell of our sensory addictions, ridged traditionalist mentality and money (most likely all 4). the world could be a paradise, with more then enough harmlessly acquired foodstuffs and wondrous, highly satisfying visceral experiences for all, but instead we dredge for jewels in the current power structures mud, content with cubic zirconia

  On 7/18/2013 at 3:32 PM, keltoi said:

she should have killed herself if she opposes giving birth.

lol

I agree

  On 7/20/2013 at 8:13 PM, Redruth said:

all the killing must come to an end. we are under the illusion, based on examples of the past, that imposing death, instead of exclusively supporting life is somehow necessary or mandatory on earth for survival. we think not with our hearts and in terms of what is truly possible, but with our stomachs and our most stubborn, destructive nature; our appetite for destruction and the pain sorrow and suffering, the decimation this insatiable appetite lays plain for us to see all around us and it is growing like a virus. we must stop; we now have new potential in the world, far greater then any period in history, to live in peace and goodwill, without need for the current system which poses as our great hope and our only means of change. we can indeed change without them if we could all only come to terms with the truth and unify, pointed in one single directing, our power in our numbers, the minority learning and educating itself to become the majority for the first time in the history of the world. for the first time, deny all of our dark behaviors which we have the ability to deny, using our advanced intellect and advanced ability to love. yet we do not take advantage of this potentiality within ourselves because we are either to stupid as a species or under the spell of our sensory addictions, ridged traditionalist mentality and money (most likely all 4). the world could be a paradise, with more then enough harmlessly acquired foodstuffs and wondrous, highly satisfying visceral experiences for all, but instead we dredge for jewels in the current power structures mud, content with cubic zirconia

I agree

when i was maybe 11 years old I was channel surfing and I found a terrifying slaughter house footage video on public access and watched in horror as someone in a rubber suit tossed live pigs into a giant boiling vat of water. they showed lots of other gruesome dark factory animal killings and those images always stayed in the back of my mind while i ate meals. i may not be a vegetarian but i try my best to avoid any factory raised meat. I don't wanna have hellraiser visions about my food

  On 7/20/2013 at 8:13 PM, Redruth said:

we dredge for jewels in the current power structures mud, content with cubic zirconia

Nice line

how ethical is it in ideal terms ? can you really extract eggs and milk without causing suffering to the animals ? if yes then it's pretty cool, but i guess it's environmentally unsustainable with current population and demand

anybody else think Vache has some abstract message about the meat industry/the "machine for making cows"

  On 7/20/2013 at 9:27 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 7/20/2013 at 6:37 PM, MadameChaos said:

free range eggs and organic milk.

 

how ethical is it in ideal terms ? can you really extract eggs and milk without causing suffering to the animals ? if yes then it's pretty cool, but i guess it's environmentally unsustainable with current population and demand

 

I think most farmers tend to wait for chickens to lay their eggs rather than manually going in and taking them out dude.

don't chickens naturally want their eggs to hatch, to enjoy family life and freedom from human exploitation ?

Yeah, that's what Chicken Run is all about

My mom raises chickens (about a dozen of them) and they are very well taken care of, and seem healthy as they run around outside the coop during the day. My parents collect eggs every day. So yeah, I think you can raise them ethically.