Quantum experiment shows how future can affect the past

this reminds me of this rad experiment that this John Cramer guy was trying to get funding to do several years ago, which I had read about. i think i first read about it maybe around 2006, and i was pretty interested to see what would happen so i would keep trying to check up on it and there was never any substantial update. he apparently got funding but had some setbacks or something.

anyway my layman understanding of what HE was and maybe still is trying to do, was to see if the entanglement that allows particles to affect others instantly, across whatever distance, also worked across time. so he was going to have a crystal split a laser, then either have one half of the beam 'slowed down' somehow or maybe just have it measured at a greater distance after the split (to prolong the amount of time before it is manipulated/analyzed), relative to the other side. then see if manipulating that stream of photons would affect the ones on the other side at an earlier time (since they are analyzed sooner after the split).

if messages/data could be transmitted by quantum entanglement and his experiment showed that information is transmitted not only instantly across great distances but also that it included the possibility of retrocausality, it'd basically mean you could send messages back in time. seems like all you'd have to do from there would be build some big facility to capture and slow down a beam of light for however long, and that amount of time would be how long you could send messages back. i guess his theory is that maybe the photons are actually sending information back in time to their point of origin, and then forward FROM their point of origin at the same time. which seems like it makes a lot more sense than the other possible explanation for how particles light years across could instantly affect each other, which would be somehow transmitting info in a more direct point a to b manner of some kind. even if retrocausality seems pretty far fetched. at least the theory would explain a lot. the entangled photons would be sending information about their state, back in time to their origin, and then from there forward again along with the other photons they are entangled with. so any change would then 'instantly' affect them all, except it's not instant, it's just causality, only going forwards AND backwards.

thing is it's almost horrific to consider the possibilities and implications of something like that being discovered. the nation that figured that out first, would become invincible the moment they created a facility to allow them to slow down and keep hold of the lasers for months, if that's possible. can't they slow down light with near absolute zero temps? what was weird to me was how much this cramer guy was struggling to get funding. seems like a gov would want to invest in something like this, even if it is far fetched. it seemed weird to me how there were almost 0 updates about his experiment even though he originally described it as very basic to set up. he got funding but still no real updates. seems like perfect fodder for a sci fi story. ya know, like maybe he succeeded and was approached by g-men and is now helping them design a futurescope observatory. or maybe the gov already knew the results of his experiments and have sabotaged or blackmailed or coerced him somehow to prevent what they know from becoming public.

  On 9/10/2013 at 10:46 PM, Amen Lare said:

 

  Quote

 

 

If you send two photons, one to the right and one to the left, then each of the two photons have forgotten where they come from. They lose their identities and become entangled.

 

uhhh didn't they prove this wrong a long time ago?

EPR paradox innit?

  On 9/12/2013 at 12:48 AM, MadameChaos said:

if they don't use the correct words they are going to sound like idiots obviously. this still doesn't explain why they need to "remember" where they have been in order to go where they were going. surely they are just saying that the photons behavior is erratic for some unknown reason and hell fucked if i know why!

They're just referring to particle spin and the tendency of physical quantities to come in pairs at this level of observation... So if one of two photons in a pair has a right spin, the other must undoubtedly have a left. So when separated some distance beyond the speed of light, what is transmitting the "data" if you will that tells a photon to have a left or right spin?

They're saying the photon "forgets"...

granted my understanding of this type of physics is limited to a textbook or two and some Stephen hawking books =(

lol @ watmm thinking it understands science more than quantum physicists

  On 9/12/2013 at 2:59 AM, Jody Dark said:

lol @ watmm thinking it understands science more than quantum physicists

lol @ you thinking huffington post represents a viable source for this information. Might as well have heard it from fox news.

at least I studied this in school. I'm not an expert but the article sounds like a bunch of horseshit that's all.

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:02 AM, StephenG said:

 

  On 9/12/2013 at 2:59 AM, Jody Dark said:

lol @ watmm thinking it understands science more than quantum physicists

 

lol @ you thinking huffington post represents a viable source for this information. Might as well have heard it from fox news.

 

at least I studied this in school. I'm not an expert but the article sounds like a bunch of horseshit that's all.

 

lol @ bringing Huffington Post's credibility into the matter simply because you think something you don't understand is bullshit. It has nothing to do with Huffington Post.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1003.0720.pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.110.2955&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.70.5612&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.livescience.com/19975-spooky-quantum-entanglement.html

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/timelike-entanglement/

that article is so watered down it's basically saying nothing. it has like no meat on the bone at all and just gives general stuff that's been around for years. to be fair to huffpo it looks like to get anything much more informative about it you'd have to buy the article from Nature.

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:15 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:02 AM, StephenG said:

 

  On 9/12/2013 at 2:59 AM, Jody Dark said:

lol @ watmm thinking it understands science more than quantum physicists

 

lol @ you thinking huffington post represents a viable source for this information. Might as well have heard it from fox news.

 

at least I studied this in school. I'm not an expert but the article sounds like a bunch of horseshit that's all.

 

 

lol @ bringing Huffington Post's credibility into the matter simply because you think something you don't understand is bullshit. It has nothing to do with Huffington Post.

 

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1003.0720.pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.110.2955&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.70.5612&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.livescience.com/19975-spooky-quantum-entanglement.html

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/timelike-entanglement/

 

Don't be fucking dickhead. We have Charles for that. Where once did I say I thought I knew more about the topic than actual physicists like Jody suggested?

Like MisterE said the article is watered down and anyone with a couple 2nd year university courses in the subject would probably say the same thing I did. That this was proven wrong years ago. Sorry I don't keep up on my physics journals and dissertations and monthly catalogues like you do apparently.

Oh and I clearly said "IT SOUNDS" like a bunch of horseshit. You know, based on my limited knowledge (which I also indicated I have limited knowledge on the topic). But who are you to decide what I do and don't understand?

Glad you've posted some more links, I'm proud of you.

  On 9/12/2013 at 2:34 AM, MisterE said:

then either have one half of the beam 'slowed down' somehow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93Einstein_condensate

I think they ended up using a similar methodology for an experiment where they basically shone an image or laser through one side and effectively slowed it down, making it appear to occur on the other side of a condensate as having occurred later in time than it actually should have. Kind of like delaying a live broadcast by a few seconds. Or something along those lines. I'll try and dig out the experiment. It's somehow relevant to what John Cramer was trying, I'm sure of it!

It's pretty amazing stuff. I wonder what the next major breakthrough is?

It's all shit I don't fully understand but there are some good books put into laymen terms that help. "Trouble with Physics" comes to mind. It's about string theory but it kept things pretty interesting. I think I'll re-read it.

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:53 AM, StephenG said:

I think I'll re-read it.

 

do that, then report back. i'll wait.

i should prob try to find a book like that sometime. i know i couldn't grasp the deepest level stuff but i'm always disappointed with the ways they try to explain things through dumb comparisons that you'll see on science shows on tv, or lots of articles online. i can see where comparisons like that need to be made but they are aimed at total dummies. a little more detailed info would be nice.

  On 9/12/2013 at 4:43 AM, MisterE said:

i should prob try to find a book like that sometime. i know i couldn't grasp the deepest level stuff but i'm always disappointed with the ways they try to explain things through dumb comparisons that you'll see on science shows on tv, or lots of articles online. i can see where comparisons like that need to be made but they are aimed at total dummies. a little more detailed info would be nice.

Yeah that's why I liked "trouble with physics". It met somewhere in the middle.

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:33 AM, StephenG said:

 

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:15 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 9/12/2013 at 3:02 AM, StephenG said:

 

  On 9/12/2013 at 2:59 AM, Jody Dark said:

lol @ watmm thinking it understands science more than quantum physicists

 

lol @ you thinking huffington post represents a viable source for this information. Might as well have heard it from fox news.

 

at least I studied this in school. I'm not an expert but the article sounds like a bunch of horseshit that's all.

 

 

lol @ bringing Huffington Post's credibility into the matter simply because you think something you don't understand is bullshit. It has nothing to do with Huffington Post.

 

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1003.0720.pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.110.2955&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.70.5612&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.livescience.com/19975-spooky-quantum-entanglement.html

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/timelike-entanglement/

 

 

Don't be fucking dickhead. We have Charles for that. Where once did I say I thought I knew more about the topic than actual physicists like Jody suggested?

 

Like MisterE said the article is watered down and anyone with a couple 2nd year university courses in the subject would probably say the same thing I did. That this was proven wrong years ago. Sorry I don't keep up on my physics journals and dissertations and monthly catalogues like you do apparently.

 

Oh and I clearly said "IT SOUNDS" like a bunch of horseshit. You know, based on my limited knowledge (which I also indicated I have limited knowledge on the topic). But who are you to decide what I do and don't understand?

 

Glad you've posted some more links, I'm proud of you.

 

The links were to show you that there are non-Huffington Post sources for the story, because you seem to have dismissed the story out-of-hand because it came from Huffington Post.

I'm glad to see science is building proof for how those friggin pyramids have been built. They're prolly just entangled pieces of rock from the future!

*only now realises who started the thread*

*wonders wether to even post at all*

...

*does so anywho...it's a free entangled world, my dear anti-praticles!*

Lol, here we go again!

mind... blown

This whole thing smells like a liberal conspiracy to me.

  On 9/12/2013 at 8:38 AM, xxx said:

The real trouble with quantum physics and string theory is that all these crazy claims e.g. all probabilities exist, there are parallel universes, 13 dimensions curled into one another, etc. always have the same answer to any further questioning: "You wouldn't understand the math".

The difference between quantum physics and string theory is that one is theoretical and the other is real.

What we're talking about in this thread is the real, has-been-observed stuff.

  On 9/12/2013 at 2:34 AM, MisterE said:

this reminds me of this rad experiment that this John Cramer guy was trying to get funding to do several years ago, which I had read about. i think i first read about it maybe around 2006, and i was pretty interested to see what would happen so i would keep trying to check up on it and there was never any substantial update. he apparently got funding but had some setbacks or something.

 

anyway my layman understanding of what HE was and maybe still is trying to do, was to see if the entanglement that allows particles to affect others instantly, across whatever distance, also worked across time. so he was going to have a crystal split a laser, then either have one half of the beam 'slowed down' somehow or maybe just have it measured at a greater distance after the split (to prolong the amount of time before it is manipulated/analyzed), relative to the other side. then see if manipulating that stream of photons would affect the ones on the other side at an earlier time (since they are analyzed sooner after the split).

 

if messages/data could be transmitted by quantum entanglement and his experiment showed that information is transmitted not only instantly across great distances but also that it included the possibility of retrocausality, it'd basically mean you could send messages back in time. seems like all you'd have to do from there would be build some big facility to capture and slow down a beam of light for however long, and that amount of time would be how long you could send messages back. i guess his theory is that maybe the photons are actually sending information back in time to their point of origin, and then forward FROM their point of origin at the same time. which seems like it makes a lot more sense than the other possible explanation for how particles light years across could instantly affect each other, which would be somehow transmitting info in a more direct point a to b manner of some kind. even if retrocausality seems pretty far fetched. at least the theory would explain a lot. the entangled photons would be sending information about their state, back in time to their origin, and then from there forward again along with the other photons they are entangled with. so any change would then 'instantly' affect them all, except it's not instant, it's just causality, only going forwards AND backwards.

 

thing is it's almost horrific to consider the possibilities and implications of something like that being discovered. the nation that figured that out first, would become invincible the moment they created a facility to allow them to slow down and keep hold of the lasers for months, if that's possible. can't they slow down light with near absolute zero temps? what was weird to me was how much this cramer guy was struggling to get funding. seems like a gov would want to invest in something like this, even if it is far fetched. it seemed weird to me how there were almost 0 updates about his experiment even though he originally described it as very basic to set up. he got funding but still no real updates. seems like perfect fodder for a sci fi story. ya know, like maybe he succeeded and was approached by g-men and is now helping them design a futurescope observatory. or maybe the gov already knew the results of his experiments and have sabotaged or blackmailed or coerced him somehow to prevent what they know from becoming public.

ah ok thanks MisterE i understand it now. my mind is completely blown though so i'm going to have to go and think about this for a bit.

i own a copy of The Elegant Universe and The Fabric Of The Cosmos

ask me anything

  On 9/14/2013 at 1:55 AM, Jody Dark said:

i own a copy of The Elegant Universe and The Fabric Of The Cosmos

 

ask me anything

Consider a curved line representing the effects on your life span from smoking pissarettes. If the curved line can be represented as f(x) = -2x²-sqrt(1), what is the slope of the secant line passing through (1, f(1)), (1+h, f(1+h))?

The slope of the secant line represents some sort of vector path you are taking your life on through space-time as well as the average loss of life in seconds per pissarette. Final destination pooparettes.

  On 9/12/2013 at 8:23 AM, LimpyLoo said:

This whole thing smells like a liberal conspiracy to me.

u smell liek a liberal conspiracy

  On 9/12/2013 at 10:19 AM, MadameChaos said:

 

 

ah ok thanks MisterE i understand it now. my mind is completely blown though so i'm going to have to go and think about this for a bit.

 

ha well, like i said i could be wrong about my understanding of the cramer guy's experiment which was the one i was talking about. i'm not very versed with this stuff to say the least, but i think that's pretty much how he explained the idea behind his theory. to me, even though the idea of retrocausality is pretty weird and seems far fetched, it seems like it would explain the 'spooky action at a distance' stuff. instead of having some kind of invisible information being sent from particle A to particle B directly, so that A can affect B instantly (which seems to break relativity, i think), you'd have particle A sending info about changes in its state backwards in time to a point where it was near particle B, and then that info would be shared and travel forward again along with particle B, until you get to the point in time where you changed the state of particle A. so then it seems like B is also changed 'instantly'.

my understanding of that could be wrong but it seems a simple thing to grasp even as a layman and it seems to explain how stuff could affect other stuff from lightyears away, assuming they were once near each other and got entangled. that said it all still seems pretty far fetched and if proven true definitely would be mindblowing.

the experiment in the OP i have no idea about exactly how much it relates to Cramer's, but it seems pretty similar. the article just doesn't tell you much about it though.