talk to me about dub techno

describe to me what's great about dub techno... I'm deeply interested in it as artistic inspiration for a number of reasons and mediums-- in particular: architecture.

Dub techno to me musically bifurcates and distills two strong architectural forms - repetitive rhythmic structure (the bass and percussion) and atmospheric spacial ornament (often the chords, or accents that are added on top)

and for you?

what does it do?

how does it achieve it?

what's special about it?

what emotions does it enhance?

so on and so forth - share with me your intellectual and formal thoughts on dub techno

:)

I'm relatively new to the genre, having only gotten into it this year. I enjoy the repetitive nature of it first and foremost, how many tracks are driven. Then the subtleties, the gradual shifts and transformations that can feel like they're working 'behind the scenes', it gets me lost/ hypnotized in the chune.

Super into Monolake at the moment, along with Basic Channel, T++, Andy Stott, Gas & Deepchord.

i'm pretty into it, but there's so many different forms. there's the super minimal basic channel stuff, monolake, stuff like that. i find that to be sublime in its simplicity. then there's the thick heat of echospace's liumin, which i'm still listening to all the time. that immediately takes me to another place. even without the japanese found sound stuff it will always remind me of tokyo during the summer. a kind of electricity in the air right before the sun sets. repetition and subtle building, little added pieces that gradually become a kind of overwhelming slab of music, something monolithic.

i think all of my interest in dub techno started years ago with a record that probably wouldn't be classified as such: ken ishii's extra. specifically this video

[youtubehd]t6maVVFs0As[/youtubehd]

just the first thirty seconds or so. that's what all of liumin, and a lot of dub techno, sounds like to me. i can't speak intellectually about this shit, it's very intuitive music to me.

Christ I haven't listened to Monolake in forever. Cinemascope is absolutely one of my top albums of all time.

I need to get into more dub.

The atmosphere is a huge part of it. Whether it's the starker techno variety of 'early' BC, the ambient techno of 154, that carpet of rolling bass Yagya excels at, or the lost-in-the-sample-forest feeling of Gas. It has to be a kind of fuzzy sound-world that you want to spend time in or it would be the most boring thing ever. When done right, it evokes an ambivalent response from me, there's an unspecific 'looming' but not really threatening atmosphere but at the same time it's comforting, like listening to the huge storm that just soaked you, but from inside your house, wrapped in a warm blanket and eating soup, or something like that.

I don't think the atmosphere is "bifurcated" from the rhythm, it's more of a continuum ranging from the kick drum to an ambient backdrop. The atmosphere comes partly from the repetition, and the repetition means that much of the atmosphere is itself rhythmic. Most of the drums tend to have the same fuzzy timbres and textures for instance, and those typical electricity-in-the-air type filtered chord stabs could be considered percussive, and so on... so where do you draw the line. It feels like symbiosis (as it is in most music I suppose), more than disjunction.

Another thing I like about it, and BC are masters at this, is the kind of contrast effect where otherwise small changes seem huge in the context of dub techno. When you've just spent seven minutes listening to a kick subtly fading in and out and the filter on a chord being slowly tweaked, and all of a sudden this subdued little distorted handclap or hi-hat comes in and it's as if the sky fell down and hit you in the head. The distilled essence of techno, or house for that matter, or maybe just any 4/4 club music, really.

This is going to sound way silly, but there's not much I can do about it. Because it's just the way it is, right?

To me, a good dub techno track is like a return the the time before I was born, in uterus. Floating in vaginal fluids, at perfect temperature. Weird sounds coming from some still unknown distance shaking things up in a soothing but unpredictable way. A heartbeat which is always there like some lifeline. All in the context of some pre-conscious deep sleep, so there's not much else but some feeling of the music without any real context.

And at the end of the tunnel, when the lights go on, I suddenly start to cry! Like a newly born. ;D

Lol

A beatboxing fetus ;p

I've been obsessed with the Echospace guys for awhile now. There's something about their moods and atmospheres, which I guess is something I like about the genre in general, though particularly with them. The majority of their material has this late night, urban vibe, which I really dig. I showed a friend Liumin yesterday and he picked up on something that I had noticed about their music, in that it's warm and cold at the same time; there's a very south of the equator feel, partly due to the rhythm in some cases, and yet it's polar at the same time. Maybe the cold sensation comes from the gauzyness of the layers. I don't know. As mentioned, the use of latin rhythms in their music, which isn't a standard dub techno characteristic (from what I've heard at least), is something I find refreshing. BCN Dub sounds like an underwater fiesta...

I'm not super entrenched in the genre though. Fluxion's Vibrant Forms comps are awesome. His stuff is super aqueous, and I'm always looking for watery atmospheres/textures. Also grabbed Yagya's Rigning recently, which I'm enjoying. I learned at the Substrata Festival this year that all the field recordings used in his tunes are not actually his. Thought that was interesting.

I actually don't enjoy Basic Channel much at all. I find their music to be much more repetitive and less moody.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

The best thing about it is the metallic sounding chords/melodies/percussion/whatever. There's no instrument with that timbre that I know of.

Dub techno has been cited and talked about so much on WATMM - this thread is great because I've been meaning to check it out. Besides some Monolake releases, Andy Stott, T++ and old Basic Channel I have never really dove into the genre. Anything I've heard by Deepchord and Echospace seems really appealing. I've also noticed this is music that can really vary from listen-to-listen, depending on volume and whether I'm listening on speakers or headphones. At least more so than other electronic music genres.

  On 10/8/2013 at 12:17 PM, zkreso said:

The best thing about it is the metallic sounding chords/melodies/percussion/whatever. There's no instrument with that timbre that I know of.

yes.

part of why I love BC so much -- obviously not the first to do this, but the formal step to make the harsh echo and reverb filters "the sounds" themselves seems like such a leap. Synths always sound great but often their just used as melodic tone replacements. We can sing the "notes" the synths are playing, even on early autechre albums from the same period. The "notes" circling round our ears on phylyps trak are unsingable, in fact there is not way our mouths can even being to replicate whats happening. Phylyps trak II/I does this exceptionally well while still giving us a beat.

  On 10/8/2013 at 5:44 AM, manmower said:

The atmosphere is a huge part of it. Whether it's the starker techno variety of 'early' BC, the ambient techno of 154, that carpet of rolling bass Yagya excels at, or the lost-in-the-sample-forest feeling of Gas. It has to be a kind of fuzzy sound-world that you want to spend time in or it would be the most boring thing ever. When done right, it evokes an ambivalent response from me, there's an unspecific 'looming' but not really threatening atmosphere but at the same time it's comforting, like listening to the huge storm that just soaked you, but from inside your house, wrapped in a warm blanket and eating soup, or something like that.

 

I don't think the atmosphere is "bifurcated" from the rhythm, it's more of a continuum ranging from the kick drum to an ambient backdrop. The atmosphere comes partly from the repetition, and the repetition means that much of the atmosphere is itself rhythmic. Most of the drums tend to have the same fuzzy timbres and textures for instance, and those typical electricity-in-the-air type filtered chord stabs could be considered percussive, and so on... so where do you draw the line. It feels like symbiosis (as it is in most music I suppose), more than disjunction.

 

Another thing I like about it, and BC are masters at this, is the kind of contrast effect where otherwise small changes seem huge in the context of dub techno. When you've just spent seven minutes listening to a kick subtly fading in and out and the filter on a chord being slowly tweaked, and all of a sudden this subdued little distorted handclap or hi-hat comes in and it's as if the sky fell down and hit you in the head. The distilled essence of techno, or house for that matter, or maybe just any 4/4 club music, really.

I agree with all of this - thank you manmower. and everyone - i'll probably come back into this thread periodically to spill my thoughts about dub techno

  On 10/8/2013 at 12:43 AM, usagi said:

talk dubby to me, baby.

 

I once posted a question that went along the lines of "explain dub in one sentence", and the only serious response was "reverb and delay". it's kind of technically accurate but it didn't really explain the spirit of dub, the reason it's so important and so central to so many musical styles and movements. I'm still trying to figure that part out. is it because it represents studio experimentation and innovation? or is it just because it sounds so evocative and deep?

 

*listens to Scion's Basic Channel mix*

yes i usually describe it as "rhythm and sound" -- mark and moritz got it oh so right from the beginning

Just getting into this 'dub techno' business. Really liking Echospace and Andy Stott. Will check out the rest that are listed in this fine thread. Thanks peeps.

  On 10/10/2013 at 4:25 AM, dr lopez said:

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 12:17 PM, zkreso said:

The best thing about it is the metallic sounding chords/melodies/percussion/whatever. There's no instrument with that timbre that I know of.

 

yes.

 

part of why I love BC so much -- obviously not the first to do this, but the formal step to make the harsh echo and reverb filters "the sounds" themselves seems like such a leap. Synths always sound great but often their just used as melodic tone replacements. We can sing the "notes" the synths are playing, even on early autechre albums from the same period. The "notes" circling round our ears on phylyps trak are unsingable, in fact there is not way our mouths can even being to replicate whats happening. Phylyps trak II/I does this exceptionally well while still giving us a beat.

 

 

 

  On 10/8/2013 at 5:44 AM, manmower said:

The atmosphere is a huge part of it. Whether it's the starker techno variety of 'early' BC, the ambient techno of 154, that carpet of rolling bass Yagya excels at, or the lost-in-the-sample-forest feeling of Gas. It has to be a kind of fuzzy sound-world that you want to spend time in or it would be the most boring thing ever. When done right, it evokes an ambivalent response from me, there's an unspecific 'looming' but not really threatening atmosphere but at the same time it's comforting, like listening to the huge storm that just soaked you, but from inside your house, wrapped in a warm blanket and eating soup, or something like that.

I don't think the atmosphere is "bifurcated" from the rhythm, it's more of a continuum ranging from the kick drum to an ambient backdrop. The atmosphere comes partly from the repetition, and the repetition means that much of the atmosphere is itself rhythmic. Most of the drums tend to have the same fuzzy timbres and textures for instance, and those typical electricity-in-the-air type filtered chord stabs could be considered percussive, and so on... so where do you draw the line. It feels like symbiosis (as it is in most music I suppose), more than disjunction.

Another thing I like about it, and BC are masters at this, is the kind of contrast effect where otherwise small changes seem huge in the context of dub techno. When you've just spent seven minutes listening to a kick subtly fading in and out and the filter on a chord being slowly tweaked, and all of a sudden this subdued little distorted handclap or hi-hat comes in and it's as if the sky fell down and hit you in the head. The distilled essence of techno, or house for that matter, or maybe just any 4/4 club music, really.

 

I agree with all of this - thank you manmower. and everyone - i'll probably come back into this thread periodically to spill my thoughts about dub techno

  On 10/8/2013 at 12:43 AM, usagi said:

talk dubby to me, baby.

 

I once posted a question that went along the lines of "explain dub in one sentence", and the only serious response was "reverb and delay". it's kind of technically accurate but it didn't really explain the spirit of dub, the reason it's so important and so central to so many musical styles and movements. I'm still trying to figure that part out. is it because it represents studio experimentation and innovation? or is it just because it sounds so evocative and deep?

 

*listens to Scion's Basic Channel mix*

 

yes i usually describe it as "rhythm and sound" -- mark and moritz got it oh so right from the beginning

Wonderful posts, these! Big up!

Although I can only wonder why mine hadn't made it into the cut...

one of the first dub techno albums I heard that still stands up over 10 years later

http://www.discogs.com/Kit-Clayton-Nek-Sanalet/master/60881

I really like Porter Ricks. They excel at achieving the distinctive dub techno murkiness without ever slipping into the "womb-time/heartbeat/warm blanket" feel that goDel mentioned above (not that I dislike that stuff especially). I just appreciate PR tracks' choppy topographies & damoclean atmospheres. It's like they put me treading water on the surface of a dark ocean instead of floating serenely below.

the bookend tracks of Biokinetics are basically perfect

Never been too much into this porter ricks stuff, tbh. Sounds too industrial to my ears. Some machine like rhythms with some filters on top. And that's about it. A bit too straightforward, if you ask me. I'd rather listen to Pan Sonic when I'm in a mood like that.

It's all good though. I guess we have an antagonistic set of ears. ;D

And that Kit Clayton album does age well. He also had a good track on that label compilation.

one of my favourite releases is still Torsten Pröfrock various production on chain reaction

What I particularly like about dub is that it sounds so very soft, and that it doesn't require that much of your attention. I usually listen to music while I'm doing other stuff (reading, surfing). Being able to have my mind follow the story while listening to some tunes is a big plus for me, something which is hard to achieve when KTPA1 is tweaking your neuroses. Dub, or techno in general, is liked most by me if it has some sort of futuristic touch.

This song reminds of exactly that. Somehow I am reminded of futuristic plazas, hanging gardens and glass skyscrapers.

Yagya I find awesome, and Basic Channel super overrated.

I was kinda done with this genre after tiring my ears with too much Basic Channel clones basically (Atheus, Fluxion, etc.), but coming home wasted and hearing this early in the morning on intergalactic.fm I really got into it again:

I saw that 154 was mentioned here, that's really worth mentioning again, Strike is an amazing album (so is his Newworldaquarium album). Same goes for Gas.

  On 10/21/2013 at 12:02 AM, SPD² said:

Yagya I find awesome, and Basic Channel super overrated.

dude wtf - how can you not just get the groove of this slice of sound

Groovin' to Sommer by Deepchord. Perfect for these hot, bushfire tainted nights.

  On 10/21/2013 at 12:23 AM, Herr Jan said:

I was kinda done with this genre after tiring my ears with too much Basic Channel clones basically (Atheus, Fluxion, etc.), but coming home wasted and hearing this early in the morning on intergalactic.fm I really got into it again:

 

 

I saw that 154 was mentioned here, that's really worth mentioning again, Strike is an amazing album (so is his Newworldaquarium album). Same goes for Gas.

fluxion was signed to chain reaction, great atmospheric background music, what i like about it is the repetivness of it (as someone said above), the mood and aestetic of it, i find the same thing with acctress's music, also the music is actually a bit boring and i mean this in a positive way (maybe someone knows a better word i could use?)

  On 10/21/2013 at 2:02 PM, funkaholic said:

 

  On 10/21/2013 at 12:23 AM, Herr Jan said:

I was kinda done with this genre after tiring my ears with too much Basic Channel clones basically (Atheus, Fluxion, etc.), but coming home wasted and hearing this early in the morning on intergalactic.fm I really got into it again:

 

 

I saw that 154 was mentioned here, that's really worth mentioning again, Strike is an amazing album (so is his Newworldaquarium album). Same goes for Gas.

fluxion was signed to chain reaction, great atmospheric background music, what i like about it is the repetivness of it (as someone said above), the mood and aestetic of it, i find the same thing with acctress's music, also the music is actually a bit boring and i mean this in a positive way (maybe someone knows a better word i could use?)

 

Yeah, things like Fluxion and Actress are perfect for studying or doing work, it's not too distracting, it isn't that great to constantly grab your attention. I was putting Fluxion in a bad light in that post but I do enjoy these artists, from Fluxion I loved Traces from last year actually. Just when I was going down the ´dub techno rabbit hole´ I found too much of the same and just sort of stopped listening to it for a while. Like the Atheus example (down to the tracktitle just BC worship):

shit

ill be back with about 1000 recommendations later if you want it, i love dub techno (hence my involvement in the modern scene)